#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-02-18

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tiwakeso much joins and parts and timeouts... and no talking08:09
Stskeepsit's 9am europe08:09
Stskeeps:P08:09
Joonaadepends on your timezone :)08:09
tiwakemidnight pacific08:09
Yanielsmartfiltered joins/parts :308:09
Joonaabut i do wish i was still sleeping08:09
Teemujust having moarningu kofee08:09
marsupapu10am here in finland, perfect time for workplace-ircing08:10
tiwakemarsupapu: assuming its never not?08:10
Teemutiwake: when in home08:10
tiwakeheh08:10
marsupapuWell, worklplace ircing is uncomfortable at 10pm.08:10
tiwakeI just got back from work08:11
tiwakeand its midnight08:11
tiwake14 hour work day, yay08:11
tiwakeon a side note, I had a set of these waiting for me from the UPS guy08:12
tiwakehttp://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-HD-518-Headphones-Black/dp/B0042A68R8/ref=pd_rhf_gw_p_img_108:12
politienice08:12
tiwakeI'm having major ear gasms now08:12
politiestil wouldnt want to work 14 hours though08:12
politie:p08:13
Joonaatiwake heh, i had something similar when i got my agk k 550s a week or two back08:13
Joonaanot THAT big of a difference, but noticeable nonetheless08:13
Joonaa... i might need a better amp or sound card08:14
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tiwakeoh gosh, that sounded so nice08:14
tiwakejust finished listening to http://tiwake.com/perlman.m4a08:14
Teemuendless upgrading cycle08:14
Joonaaheh, yeah... if only i had money >(08:14
tiwakeviolin concerto08:15
Joonaa:)*08:15
tiwake256 kbps AAC... one of the higher quality audio things I have on hand08:15
tiwakeI guess aside from CD's08:16
Joonaait drives me insane i cant get one album in better quality than mp308:17
Joonaai could order the cd, but it would cost like 50eur and i dont even have a cd drive08:18
tiwakemp3 is not a very good compression algorithm... heh08:18
YanielJoonaa: at least the cd is available08:19
JoonaaYaniel: well, theres one other album... theres only a very low quality youtube recording of it08:19
Joonaai wouldnt mind paying 50eur for that, but its just not for sale08:20
YanielI wish more artists used bandcamp08:20
Joonaayeah08:20
Joonaai was trying to buy deadmau5's new album, but he only sells on itunes..08:20
Teemulove records is the only label you'll ever need08:21
tiwakelast I knew itunes high quality (256 kbps) audio was all DRM free08:21
Joonaai just couldnt get itunes to work.. and i was looking for flac anyways08:22
tiwakemeh08:22
Yanielflac best format08:22
tiwake256 kbps AAC is good enough for me :P08:22
Joonaaheh, i happened to find a vinyl rip of daft punk's discovery08:22
Joonaa96khz 24bit flac..08:23
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Yanielheh that's getting a bit overkill though08:25
Joonaatrue08:25
Tegu96kbps mp3!08:25
Nicd-I've been ripping as apple lossless for a while but I can't hear any difference to a decent vbr mp308:26
Nicd-I'm glad too, don't have to pay for hifi equipment :P08:26
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Joonaamm, i went from computer speakers to earbuds and then to proper headphones08:27
Tegumaybe the diffrence can only be heard with hifi equipment08:27
tbrdid anyone say Opus yet? :)08:27
Joonaaevery time i could hear more stuff08:27
YanielI have my hopes high for opus08:27
Yanielon the lossy front08:27
tbryes08:27
Yanieland looks like it'll take over the world anyway now that it has become a Web3.0 standard08:27
tbrI wish chrome would support it better08:27
YanielI don't know how to feel about webm/webp yet though08:28
tiwakeseriously, these things sound amazing08:28
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Joonaawebm is great for small videos (like how 4chan uses it)08:29
tiwakeguess I was using cruddy headphones before and just didnt know it08:29
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Yanielhehe yeah08:35
Yanielwent from sennheiser PX-200 to HD-598 and not going back08:35
Joonaatheres only one way to go now :P08:35
tiwakeI was using a razor headset08:35
Joonaaoh god08:35
tiwakeheh, yeah08:36
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* tbr is looking forward to the improved WebM getting traction (VP9/opus)08:39
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YanielI was looking into webp to see if it would make sense to add support for it in my image loader08:39
Yaniel(which only supports png so far but eh, that's all I use anyway)08:40
Sail0rhttp://thehackernews.com/2015/02/stock-android-email-app.html08:41
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lainwir3dhi o/08:49
Joonaamorning08:49
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dr_gogeta86_jollhi08:52
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the_mgtis anyone here going to the Cebit in hannover next month?09:30
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Sail0rnope09:30
Sail0rdoes not make sense anymore09:31
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juhajHi! Any recommendations for another half when buying the phone?11:29
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locusftohkbd?11:30
politietoholed11:30
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politieah tohkbd11:30
locusfI just wonder if its still available11:31
Nicd-it is11:31
Nicd-http://funkyotherhalf.com/?page_id=9#!/TOHKBD2-PRE-ORDER/p/42141285/category=914109011:31
Nicd-124 available11:31
Nicd-I love the tag line. "It is good. Buy it." <311:31
Yanielsounds like something from varusteleka11:32
Yanieltheir product descriptions tend to be hilarious11:32
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juhajIs the kbd any good?11:50
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mornfalljuhaj: nobody knows yet :P11:53
mornfallunless something goes horribly wrong, it's expected to be better than n900 at least11:53
politieit looks nice11:56
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politiehow long does it usually take for an order to be shipped? i ordered saturday but havent had an update since the confirmation12:40
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ursfor me it took about a week till I got a confirmation12:40
politiein europe?12:40
ursand once it got shipped, it arrived within 24 hours via express shipment.12:41
ursyes, to germany.12:41
politieok12:41
politielong12:42
Ezkoi ordered mine on a saturday and it was shipped on tuesday or wednesday12:42
politiewell it says 1-3 work days to prepare so i suppose that should be today12:43
politiehopeful to get it this week12:44
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krours: I ordered feb 3rd, went into shipping yesterday evening (Germany as well)12:49
kroah, meant to highlight politie, not urs12:51
politie2 weeks12:51
kroyep, got a mail from Jolla on Feb 6th, warning me that the order would be delayed a bit.12:55
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jaacoppiordered one from a local shop (DNA in Finland), waited 11 business days, got bored of waiting because they didn't offer me any explanation for the delay, cancelled my order and ordered through jolla.com on monday evening. So far nothing has happened there either12:58
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Nicd-didn't just go to a store and buy it?12:59
jaacoppithey didn't have one12:59
jaacoppiout of stock12:59
Nicd-where do you live?13:00
jaacoppiin Rovaniemi13:00
jaacoppidoes it matter?13:00
Nicd-ah, far away13:00
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politie2 weeks is ordering from ebay usa shipping time, would be dissapointing13:02
kroMy guess is they had to wait for a batch to be shipped from china in order to replenish stocks, and that coming orders might be processed quicker - but it's just a wild guess13:03
jaacoppinot a wild guess, an informed guess13:05
Joonaaheh, i just bought one "used", unopened package, first one and all that13:05
Joonaagot it in a few days (the seller had some trouble shipping it)13:05
politieill hope they stocked up for the valentinesday sale13:05
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jaacoppiI saved 50€ since I originally ordered mine before the sale and now ordered during it13:08
Joonaaoh thats pretty nice13:09
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tadzikthe colour of that First One TOH is glorious13:11
tadzikI kind of wish they re-released it as The Late One, or The Initial Doubter :P13:12
Yanielvermilion is a fun colour13:12
Joonaai dont really like the orange one13:12
Yanielhaha :D maybe a I Don't Believe This version?13:12
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ppI put my money where my mouth is and got this t-shirt and this funny-coloured-cover and this lovely phone13:13
tadzikI'm also considering a cutout template to apply orange spraypaint onto my snow white, that leaves a "The Cheapskate" label on it :P13:13
intehello anybody using a pebble here?13:14
pphrmn, should start using my first one toh again, wireless charging funkytoh started cracking :(13:14
inteI learned recently that the pebble app on android does now support android wear-apps13:14
Joonaadoes anyone have a 3d printed toh?13:14
intewill this become available for the jolla-pebble-app as well?13:14
Joonaahow is it?13:14
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pp^- is one :-)13:14
ppso I'm nooooooot very happy13:15
pphopefully the keyboard one is a bit more durable13:15
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fluxinte, depends on if anyone (ie. smoku) will reverse engineer the protocol & implement it ;-)13:25
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inteflux: is the android app somewhat oss?13:41
intein that case the protocols needn't to be reverse engineered13:42
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stephg@J13:49
stephgoops13:49
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HtheBguys I have a problem with my wireless connection14:38
HtheBI am connected to my wireless router, but it doesn't work14:38
HtheBI don't have any internet access... It works with all my other devices14:39
HtheBBut my Jolla shows "connected" but doesn't do anything14:39
Sail0rdo you have an ip address?14:39
Sail0rcheck that in settings => developer mode14:39
HtheBchecking14:39
fluxinte, is it? there is an SDK yes, but how about the protocol itself?14:40
HtheByes14:40
HtheBgot an ip14:40
Sail0rdo you have developer mode enabled?14:40
HtheByeah14:41
HtheBlet me try ssh to it14:41
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HtheBi can access my phone from my notebook14:41
Sail0rwhat does "ip ro sh say" in the terminal?14:41
Sail0r* ip ro sh14:41
HtheBusing root?14:41
Joonaathat souns like something out of skyrim..14:41
Sail0rnot necessary14:41
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Joonaasounds*14:41
Sail0ris there smth like default via <yourrouters ip> dev wlan014:42
HtheBdefault via 192.168.1.1 dev wlan14:42
Sail0rdoes ping 8.8.8.8 -c 2 work?14:42
HtheB192.168.1.0/24 dev wlan0 protokernel scope link src 192.168.1.914:42
HtheB192.168.1.1 dev wlan0 scope link14:42
HtheBlet me see14:42
HtheByes14:43
HtheBi can ping it14:43
Sail0rso internet works14:43
Sail0rmaybe you have a problem with name resolution14:43
HtheBok hang on, i just tried something14:43
Sail0rdoes ping google.com -c2 work?14:43
HtheBseems like "internet on android apps" doesnt work14:43
Sail0rah14:44
Sail0rrestart alien dalvik does solve that problem for me most of the times14:44
HtheBok, stopped android service, lets see what it does now14:44
HtheBaaaand indeed14:45
HtheB>.<14:45
HtheBworks14:45
Sail0rk14:45
Sail0rtry starting it and see14:45
HtheBit works thanks!14:45
Sail0rno problem :)14:45
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HtheBwhat would have the problem be?14:45
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Sail0rDon't know happens from time to time14:46
Joonaahmm, that reminds me... skype sometimes doesnt send messages (receives them fine, can call etc), anyone had that?14:46
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tigeliHtheB: Sail0r: we know about the problem and I believe it is fixed in the current development branch14:47
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Sail0rcool :)14:48
Sail0rI am pretty happy that you silently fixed dhcpv6 on Jolla in the last update @ tigeli ;)14:49
HtheBhmm14:49
tigeliSail0r: :)14:49
HtheBseems like it still isn't working properly14:49
HtheBlike for instance: Playstore says "waiting for network"14:49
HtheBand Viber keeps saying that I Need an internet connection14:50
HtheBeverything worked just fine before o_O14:50
HtheBwhile I can just browse through the playstore, and use the browser to go online14:51
tigeliHtheB: you are running 1.1.1.27?14:52
HtheByes14:52
Price15xA playstore and steam native app would be nice. Are there any gamers out there?14:53
Sail0rI don't think Steam has open apis14:53
Price15xplaystation store* sorry not playstore14:53
Sail0ryou can ask them via support to publish a Steam app for Sailfish ;)14:53
tigeliHtheB: does it happen over reboots for you now?14:54
* HtheB reboots phone 14:54
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tadzikPrice15x: quite a few gamers, I've found :)14:55
SfietKonstantinWPrice15x: good luck for the API from steam14:55
tadzikthe steam messaging protocol has been REd afaik, bitlbee supports it14:55
SfietKonstantinWbut a steam client would be ince, indeed14:55
SfietKonstantinWI would like it14:55
tadzikso one could indulge oneself with writing a telepathy plugin14:55
HtheBtigeli: turned off and on the phone14:55
HtheBnope, still same error14:55
HtheBcant install apps using wifi14:56
Price15xtadzik: we need to collectively vote and send a letter to steam cause they wont be able to ignore that14:56
tadzikyeah, that always works14:56
SfietKonstantinWhttps://imfreedom.org/wiki/Steam_Friends14:56
tadzikrecently someone gathered 1000 votes on change.org to have hearthstone on linux, I'm sure if we can get 100 we can get it on SFOS too14:56
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tadzikoh, and there's https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/132014:59
HtheBtigeli: something isnt right :(14:59
tadzikit's reviewed, and yet no "wontfix"14:59
tigeliHtheB: it is pretty much aliendalvik not correctly detecing having the connectivity14:59
tigelidetecting14:59
inteflux I dont know the android app since it doesnt run on jolla anyways (no support for bluetooth in alien dalvik)15:00
Price15xtadzik: I think we should just ditch telepathy and look for alternatives. I been waiting for stream managment for so long!15:00
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tadzikstream management?15:00
HtheBtigeli: do you think reinstalling dalvik could solve my problem?15:00
tigeliHtheB: probably not15:01
tigeliHtheB: does it work over mobile data?15:01
HtheBbut it always worked before?15:01
HtheByeah, works fine using mobile data15:01
tigeliHtheB: well.. the detection is not _perfect_15:01
HtheBno problems at all using mobile data15:02
HtheBthe only problem is that I dont have much data left this month :p15:02
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Price15xtadzik: an extension for xmpp15:03
tigeliHtheB: though can't tell if the play store has some additional checks for connectivity15:03
tigelibut many android apps do check connectivity and for those the issues should be fixed for u1115:04
tadzikPrice15x: oh. Well, xmpp is basically dead to me these days anyway15:04
HtheBtigeli: is it working properly on the developers version?15:04
HtheBmaybe I should get the dev updates too15:04
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tadzikpeople who I have over there are either using matrix or are reachable on IRC with higher reliability15:04
Price15xtadzik: well we can bring it back with privacy concerns and importance of federated software.15:05
tigeliHtheB: well.. can't tell about the google play15:05
tigeliHtheB: but other apps work :D15:05
tigeliHtheB: you will get a chance to try with the new update very soon ;)15:06
tadzikPrice15x: I'd rather invest my time and resources in making matrix more popular15:06
HtheB:(15:06
tadzikhttps://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-for-linux/issues/132015:06
tadzikerm15:06
tadzikhttp://matrix.org/15:06
tadziknot the worst thing to mispaste15:06
HtheBtigeli: did you try out Kik? :p15:06
HtheBit never worked :p15:07
tigeliHtheB: never tried..15:07
tigeliwill have to check it later on15:07
HtheBthanks :)15:08
HtheBGuess it's time to use a real android device for now then15:08
HtheBuntill the update is rolled out15:08
tadzikyou can ninja-enable it already, I think15:08
tadzikhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1461040&postcount=151 here15:09
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tadzikI didn't try, it might eat your dog15:09
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HtheBtadzik: thanks! Guess I'll be safe then since I dont have a dog :)15:09
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tadzikme neither, but I was afraid it'll eat it anyway :D15:10
tadziklet me know if/how it works15:10
HtheBok15:10
tadzikit doesn't look like an intentional supported update yet :P15:10
HtheBany idea what the public update version number will be?15:12
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chem|stStskeeps: time for your "if you break it" speech^^15:26
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Sail0ris the update already rolling out for prerelease signers?15:29
Yanielnot for me15:30
ppme neither15:30
ppapparently cmd line updating may do bad things so :P15:30
Sail0rok for me not, too ^^15:30
Sail0rI won't update via cmd15:30
Yanielwhat do you mean, I update my desktop from the cmdline all the time15:31
Sail0rI just wondered how people figured out the "right" version number15:31
ppnumber space isn't that big you know :-)15:31
Sail0rsome people have too many time ^^15:32
pp[pp@the ~]$ time python isitoutyet.py15:34
ppreal    0m4.907s15:34
pp;)15:34
Sail0rhehe15:35
tadzikso it's real!? :D15:35
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HtheBso when will the update be rolled out!? aaargh15:39
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AardHtheB: soon™15:54
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HtheBAard: yeah, I'm already used to that word in many stuff15:56
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Mikaelayou mean "real soon now™"15:57
HtheBJolla, Open Pandora, Pyra, Gateway 3DS15:57
AardHtheB: finishing up release notes, and no additional changes will go into early access release15:58
HtheBmaybe i should sign up for the early access release15:59
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stephg\o/16:14
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stephgAard was going to ask, excited about the first EA release? has there been much interest?16:15
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Joonaasomeone wanted a steam app earlier... considering how the android app hasnt been updated for years... not much of a chance16:16
stephgJoonaa: btw I have a 3d printed cover seeing as you asked16:17
Joonaahow is it_16:17
Joonaa?*16:17
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HtheBAard: you think that the update will released this month?16:18
stephgit cost me about £17 and it's ok, it's allegedly glow-in-the-dark16:18
Joonaasmooth?16:19
stephgthe substrate used wasn't great for doing the delicate curves but it fits, it stays on, it's, er, pink16:19
Joonaaor well, does it cut your fingers or anything like that?16:19
stephgcould be smoother16:19
stephgnononoo16:19
stephgnot at all16:19
Joonaaoh, that sounds pretty nice then16:19
Joonaadoes it fit on as well as the original?16:19
stephgnearly16:19
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stephgand it's kept it's shape quite well too16:20
stephgit's a little stiffer than the real ones16:20
Joonaasounds good, i guess ill print one16:20
Joonaaoh thats perfect16:20
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Aardstephg: it's a bit less than I assumed, but still quite a lot. also I guess we'll see more subscribers coming in once we post the release notes, bringing it to my original guess16:58
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stephgI won't ask for figures but 75% of what you'd hoped or...?17:03
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Aardstephg: wait, assumed != hoped. in this case it is good to have a smaller number of people who really know what they're doing17:07
Aardso the number is slightly higher than what I hoped for, and about 65% of what I assumed17:08
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stephgcool :)17:16
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Sail0rare all of them first ones @ Aard? ^^17:19
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Aardprobably not17:20
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Pawky|2how bizzar, when installing vim, you get a link   view -> vi    , well well, I don't want to write view, i want to write vim, but renaiming view to vim makes the link not work, whilst renaming it back to view it works again... duh??18:06
Pawky|2why doew links suddenly not like to be renamed?18:07
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Pawky|2(damn keyboard..)18:07
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kroPawky|2: because it checks with ehich name it has been invoked18:26
kroPawky|2: because it checks with which name it has been invoked, and behaves accordingly18:26
Pawky|2you mean vi does?18:26
Pawky|2kro: ^^18:27
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chem|stif you want vim you write vi if you want to make sure to be read-only write view18:31
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Pawky|2chem|st: hmm... any way to rename vi to vim?18:37
Pawky|2im so used typing vim all abrevations gets me frustrated...18:38
Yanielmake an alias18:38
Pawky|2Yaniel: hmm18:38
Pawky|2could do :-)18:38
chem|stPawky|2: ??? if you want to write vim write vim!18:40
Pawky|2chem|st: duh? whatever I have installed none of them gives you vim....18:41
chem|stthe alias it...18:41
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chem|stusing vim but not knowing about bash aliases?18:41
kimmolisoon better taskswitcher demo video... works now from the keyboard. still fixed 8 apps to choose from.18:43
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FireFlythere's a proper vim package in the utilities repo18:51
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FireFlyvim-enhanced-7.3.629-1.1.118:52
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entiljolla having issues delivering phones? the missus ordered one on the 13th and she's kinda o_O about not having the phone or even a tracking id18:55
entilthis is finland18:56
Yanielapparently they were restocking recently18:56
entilmmh18:56
entilshe says it's probably due to jolla having a sale or something18:57
entilI'm ok with that theory, but it seems weird that they say 2-4 days on the site and don't even send an email saying they're restocking or busy with the deliveries or whatever18:57
faenil:/18:59
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Nicd-entil: heh, I'm waiting for one order of mine from another store. ordered in november, it'll probably arrive in may... :P19:03
entilNicd-: probably not a jolla now?19:03
Sail0rmaybe the tablet? :P19:04
entilhaha19:04
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Nicd-entil: no, completely unrelated19:05
Nicd-but it was supposed to arrive in january19:05
entilwell... retail phones should ship fast, especially if they promise to, but restocking sounds like they're sold out which is a good thing for the company :)19:06
jaacoppientil: we just talked about this a few hours ago. Most people who have orsered recently are still waiting. I ordered in january.19:09
entilshit, bro19:09
entilthat's a long wait19:09
entilnot going to mention that to the missus, she'd probably cancel the order and buy android for the refund19:10
messertingentil: Be sure to buy a phone that you can install Sailfish OS on later ;)19:11
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jaacoppihah, do whatever keeps her happy19:11
entilI'm actually pretty puzzled about her buying a jolla; she never got excited about the ui or anything, but apparently the lumia ui put her off in a big way19:11
entillike making jokes that jolla is a geek phone because only geeks care about simplicity, and the lumia ain't simple :D19:12
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entil(I don't get the joke, really, why would only geeks care about simplicity? and there are enterprise java geeks.. and probably some amount of geek went into the lumia ui as well..)19:14
jaacoppimaybe it's because simple and easy are not the same? I don't get it either19:15
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entilI've found geeks pretty much fall into two camps; one is the people who like simple and elegant solutions to problems and the other is people who like huge solutions even if they don't fit a problem19:17
r0kk3rzor people that want a configuration item for everything19:17
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entilI like simple but I'm ok with configuration items19:17
r0kk3rzyeah but i mean *everything*19:19
entilhehe19:19
the_mgtthere are people with OCD19:19
r0kk3rzpersonally i like the whole simple elegant well designed solution19:20
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r0kk3rzbut ive come across people who dont like that, and want massive configuration dialogs because they dont want to have to write code19:20
entilI had to use OSX for a while way back, hated how it felt like tying my hands behind my back19:20
entil"this is the osx way and if you don't like it piss off"19:21
YanielOSX is okay when you have no problems using a terminal19:21
entilapp-switching still raises all your terminals?19:21
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entilI hated that19:21
Yanielyes19:21
YanielI'm also missing focus-follows-mouse19:22
the_mgtI have used Gentoo and OSX, I like both. I get raving mad when using win819:22
Teemui have always hated focus follows mouse19:22
r0kk3rz"this is the osx way, dont like it? then stick around until the next version where we decide its old and crusty and change everything"19:22
entilTeemu: this is why some configuration options are nice19:22
YanielI hated ffm at first when I started using awesome19:22
Teemur0kk3rz: osx ux seems very stable compared to windos, where everything literally is never the same for different versions19:23
the_mgtyeah, I am still more of a focus follows mouse person, too19:23
r0kk3rzthe xp->7 jump was ok, everyone knows 8 jumped the shark19:23
Teemuentil: no, focus follows mouse is just Wrong(TM) :) no need for configuration items on that :)19:23
entilthere's this new OS called linux, with multiple "distributions", constantly shifting their windowing systems around and changing how it boots up and introducing interesting bugs in upgrades - I'm kinda sure windows is more stable19:24
Nicd-personally I'm most productive on OS X and I mostly love the UI and UX19:24
Teemuentil: that's why i never liked the linuxes19:24
Nicd-just to add some heat to the fire19:24
TeemuNicd-: i tolerate osx and love to use it as i cannot get distracted in the "lets configure some window manager options" -game19:25
Teemuthere are no options19:25
entilTeemu: I'm almost at the point of looking into pcbsd, but it's got a lot of hate and I'm sure a ton of stuff still won't work19:25
Nicd-linux on desktop is kind of an excercise in frustration sometimes19:25
Teemuit is like a carvers knife, there is only the blade and a minimal handle and you deal with it19:25
r0kk3rzentil: grass is always greener huh19:25
Teemuentil: freebsd has been okay for me on desktops up until the moment i got a free used mac19:25
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entilr0kk3rz: beats me, I haven't had linux-on-desktop issues apart from systemd not being ok with an encrypted hard drive, but after all the initial installation pain is suffered, things tend to Just Work19:26
Teemuentil: only gripe of freebsd on desktop for me ever has been its lousy automounter, which they finally have replaced with something better19:26
Nicd-at work I use linux but I have to deal with multiple problems like displays shutting down on their own, key combos not working and random crashes...19:27
Nicd-it's still great for web development19:27
r0kk3rzsystemd does seem a little too new to be everywhere19:27
the_mgtdragonfly bsd looks interesting, hammerfs sounds nice. but i could not care enough to try19:27
Yanielyeah I'm curious to try drangonflybsd19:27
r0kk3rzinit is old and crusty, but at least theres 1001 blog posts and forum threads about it19:27
Yanielbut somehow I'm not sure I'll get even an xserver running on it trivially19:28
entilhmm, I haven't had a display glitch in years (ran both closed- and open-source ati/amd drivers, and the binary nvidia)19:28
Teemuentil: i used freebsd on desktop from 1994 to 2007 at which point i was given the mac mini19:28
entilnice19:28
r0kk3rzi remember having lots of fun getting compiz to work on my laptop with ati drivers19:29
r0kk3rzbut this was some time ago19:29
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Teemunaturally i had to be careful when buying hardware to first read the -stable mailing list about possible issues and check that there is support and all that19:29
the_mgtI am using a macbook air now for over a year, and i am happy as a pig in the mud. i have gentoo-prefix and a windows vm, most things run native and fairly fine. and there are things that simply don't work on linux, like my livescribe pen19:29
Nicd-entil: I have to have an unsupported kernel to even get the displays to work. even then one of them keeps shutting down and I need to lock and reopen the computer to get it working again19:29
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entilNicd-: which gfx card and what kinds of screens do you use?19:30
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the_mgtbut I prefer the jolla phone over an iphone any time, i love the swiping ux19:30
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Teemuthings i like of the mac way: i can reliably get a presentation going with just plugging to the given cable and dragging the window19:30
entilyeah, the jolla's damned near perfect19:30
entilTeemu: I sound like a broken record but that's worked on all my setups for quite a few years ;P19:31
Nicd-entil: it's a dell e7440 (intel hd 4400 apparently) connected to a dell dock, it has three displays connected.19:31
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Teemuusually it is the linux guys who are struggling to enable their external display and finding out that tricks need to be done to move a window from display to display19:31
Teemunot all linux users suffer from this19:31
entilNicd-: hdmi involved?19:31
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the_mgtyeah, presentations on linux. a mixed bag19:32
entilTeemu: xrandr is easy to fuck up, enlightenment's screen conf tool is good, something called "grandr" back in the day sucked balls, no idea about the mainstream19:32
Nicd-entil: two displays are connected with DVI in the dock, one is connected via HDMI straight from the laptop.19:32
Nicd-but the HDMI one is not having problems, it's one of the DVI ones19:32
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entilhmm ok, interesting.. just that hdmi is kind of crippled (because hdcp?) that causes three screens to fail19:33
Teemui remember the days when enlightenment was considered bloaty and i thought i'd never want to spend years on getting the display JUST RIGHT19:33
entilexcept reports that are as rare as reliable UFO sigthings about three screens on hdmi actually working on some setup19:33
Teemuits promoters were most interested about how exactly one can configure the visuals19:34
entilenlightenment? bloaty? wat? :D sorry, bro; enlightenment's been a lot of things but never bloaty19:34
entilyeah, eye-candy it was, not so much anymore19:34
entilthey've toned that down significantly, but thinking back on the visuals they actually pulled off *smoothly* on a software-rendered 800MHz computer, it was crazy good for its time19:35
spider-mariowhy are you talking in the past tense?19:35
spider-marioit still exists19:35
entilspider-mario: because it's not as show-offish as it was19:36
spider-marioand it can probably still pull that off on a 800 MHz computer19:36
spider-mariooh19:36
pp<enlightenment> I'm not dead yet!19:36
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Teemui never tried enlightenment as it was promoted as mostly eyecandy, which i wasn't interested in19:36
entiltoday you can try it for performance :D19:36
entilI mean, using anything but e19 feels slow - and that's the number one comment I get when showing people e19, "that seems real fast"19:37
Teemumuch like gentoo might be a neat linux i never tried as its promoters were mostly interested in the ability to compile _everything_ multiple times a day using unsupported amounts of crazy -O100500 flags19:37
attahyou could run it for performance 10 years ago :P19:37
entilyeah, enlightenment's always been ahead of the game19:38
entildunno if they caused themselves problems by focusing on the eye-candy way back, but who cares, e19 is the best shit in town today ;P19:38
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Teemui used a very minimal icewm19:40
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ikarusxmonad4life :P19:41
* ikarus stokes the fires a bit more19:41
attahspeaking of unrelated things.. what kind of modems are in the Nokia Asha range anyway?19:42
Teemui've been using osx for a while but now for the latest updates it seems their vm scheduler is buggy19:42
Teemuannoying19:42
Nicd-more fire: I've never used a custom window manager19:42
Teemuif a process falls into swap it'll just slowly rot to die19:42
Stskeepsattah: i kinda just presume they're a baseband and that's it19:42
Stskeepsmaybe a qualcomm modem or a infenion19:42
TeemuNicd-: what's a custom window manager compared to a stock one?19:42
attahStskeeps: i was making the question more accessible i hoped.. :) what i wanted to know is who makes it..19:43
attahhmm19:43
Stskeepsi don't really know19:43
Stskeepsbroadcom?19:43
Stskeepsis an option too19:43
attahokay19:44
Nicd-Teemu: something not out of the box. :P so currently I'm using OS X at home and Ubuntu GNOME at work and just use what they come with19:44
Nicd-I've been thinking of trying a tiling thing but don't know if it's worth the effort19:44
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Nicd-closest thing I've come to a tiling window manager is tmux :D19:45
attahI use solaris at work *shudder*19:46
ppasha could still be evolution of their inhouse stuff I guess?19:46
Teemuattah: and cde is not the bestest ever? :)19:46
attahTeemu: i actually cheat and use a linux machine and x-forward anything back to that19:47
TeemuNicd-: ahhh... i come from the days when there was no "out of the box window manager" and the most usual choice was to run twm or tvtwm19:47
Teemuthe whole idea to create another distro just for the urpose of different default wm seems really stupid to me19:48
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juhajIs OpenVPN available prepackaged for jolla/sailfish from some public repo?19:51
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cryoratjuhaj, yes, but only a cli version afaik19:52
juhajA cli version? I'm not sure what you mean. OpenVPN is a daemon. What other version of it would there be and what would be the point?19:54
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spider-mariowtf,20:00
spider-mariowhy does enlightenment depend on bullet20:00
spider-mariowhat kind of physic simulation does it do? :D20:01
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PebbyI accidentally thought I was in #e and my IRC client had screwed up for a second here, LOL20:10
PebbyI've been using E as my desktop since the birth of e17 and I just wanted to +1 assertions that it's awesome. Configurable, useful, and the 'builtins' like the file browser are getting it to the point where you might almost call it a DE. Also runs fine on old, old hardware.20:12
PebbyKinda sad it never took off in the phone environment. But then I'm just as sad the N9 didn't take off either except in the form of a phone I can't buy in the states. :>20:13
Teemui'd actually just like a window manager and a decent file monger20:13
Teemuconcept of a more holistic desktop environment to me is more of an issue of UX guidelines and common set of widgets20:13
PebbyIt's actually my favorite WM unless you like something like tiling20:13
Teemui hate things like "lets make a sound daemon to louzily use crappy software to do a task the sound card does brilliantly in hardware"20:14
PebbyIt's the most understandable (to me) window-placing thingy out there.. good, easy rules for stacking, placement, window/screen remembering, etc.20:14
StskeepsPebby: well, you might argue that tizen mobile is a perverted, perverted E instance..20:14
PebbyUhh yeah lets not talk about network-manager or pulseaudio which are solutions to 1 problem I have and 99 problems I don't ;)20:15
PebbyStskeeps: Yeah, and openmoko 'tried' it.. but, again, it existing and it taking off are two different things20:15
Stskeepsopenmoko ui.. first one that made me want to throw it out of the window when i got it20:16
juhajPebby: Don't forget the 999 problems they create you did not have before20:16
PebbyFingers crossed as always, and, as a happy *nix user of many years, I don't mind using something unpopular as long as it does what I want. I loved my N9.. fingers crossed for jolla in the US. :)20:16
Pebbyjuhaj: Don't worry, I never forgot. Which is why I don't install or use either!20:17
juhajPebby: The sad thing is if you need to skype, you need to install pulseaudio nowadays :(20:17
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juhajLatest problem pulseaudio has created for me is that it "detects" the "speakers" in the display I often hook into the mini-DP port and makes that the default sink. Too bad the monitor in question does not actually HAVE speakers.20:18
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PebbyStskeeps: I know.. it was sad, really. The N9 really just did it right, so I'm happy to see the ideas living on. The whole concept of the sharing (through what app?) and sending (through what app?) thing was just ahead of its time for phones. Ironically 40 years old for unix. ;P I laugh as apple, etc. try to implement it.20:19
juhajWorst of all is it remembers the non-existent speakers after I unplug the display and STILL uses them as default output. Haven't found another way to fix this except kill pulseaudio. While monitor is hooked in, it's no audio for me unless the software lets me choose which output device it uses (most software don't)20:20
Pebbyjuhaj: Really? I had no idea skype needed it. I've never used it outside of windows I think. I think that's what peoples' concerns over things like pulseaudio and systemd are.. that they become so big they are the de-facto thing and get required by every app under the sun.20:20
PebbyBecause I legitimately understand that the solution for audio devices coming and going should not be "a script the user writes on his own" for a desktop linux user... but that works, so why not make software to help the user make those scripts instead of the insanity that is pulse?20:21
juhajPebby: They're already there, I'm afraid. The only glimmer of hope is that someone writes a better alternative. Too bad they have the M$-problem in them: they change the spec so fast that no one else concievably can write a compatible software .(20:21
PebbyJust like plenty of DE's have visual config utilities for text config files. Pulse (and gnome) just seem to go against everything great about linux.20:21
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Teemuohhhh networkmonger... things i hate in "them linuxes"20:21
Pebbyjuhaj: Right.. make it so big and useful that they can gain enough other-dev mindshare so there's no going back. At least there are still enough crusty old fogies out there to not be distracted by the 'new shiny,' I hope.20:22
PebbyYeah, let's make linux more like Windows! We have that. It's called Windows. Next.20:23
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PebbyIn any case.. as long as BSD exists and distros like Gentoo and Arch are around, I don't worry too much. If a giant proprietary piece of software like Skype wants to pull pulse in, fine. mplayer and mpd still work great with just alsa.20:24
juhajWell, I'm distracted by my N9 having become sluggish all of a sudden. Calendar always freezes when I add something (so it asks me if I want to kill it – I don't as it will recover in a few minutes). I did not even install anything since ages ago. It just turned this way suddenly. Its battery is also almost gone, so I'm being very much distracted by jolla now ;)20:24
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Yanielrenoise actually requires me to kill pulse altogether20:24
ikarusPebby: Skype can avoid using pulse if you use apulse or the like20:24
chem|stPebby: people like to buy boxes and stack them, no need to know what is in the box, just that it fits to their other boxes20:24
ikarusPebby: which just translates pulseaudio calls to alsa20:25
Pebbyikarus: I was not aware, but that's good to know in case I ever need it20:25
ikarusI am still annoyed at Skypekit being dead20:25
Pebbyjuhaj: That's what brought me here a year or so ago. My N9 finally bit the dust, but I need a US-supported phone too. Waiting and watching.20:26
juhajUS-supported? Why would jolla not work in the US?20:27
Pebbychem|st: What do you mean? That sounds like the desire for modular software.. which is sort of what pulse/etc. pitch but then it's not really modular if piece A only connects with piece B.20:27
juhajMy N9 does and I thought they have the same radios20:27
Pebbyjuhaj: It works but only at 2G.. wrong frequencies.20:27
Pebbyjuhaj: No, N9 has different bands supported.20:27
juhajok20:28
PebbySo my N9 works fine on 3g networks since it has an additional band (1900mhz or whatever, can't remember offhand) we use here on the AT&T network20:28
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chem|stPebby: I'd say all vendors should stick to US incompatible until US adapts because they are pissed at being unsupported20:28
Pebbychem|st: Haha, we can hope for that scenario, but I find it hard to believe that carriers will just switch their infrastructure for very little reason. The popular phones here seem to sell just fine.20:30
PebbyI think I would sooner leave the country than that happen, hehe.20:30
chem|stPebby: US market is not worth to adapt...20:30
Pebbychem|st: Not for an insurgent, I agree. Although the N9 was (apparently?) successful, I don't know if that could happen again.20:31
chem|stit is a prestige market, money is elsewhere20:31
PebbyBut I also don't know the costs of having a multi-band radio like the N9 had or what the benefits are outside of US support (e.g. do other countries benefit).20:31
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PebbyThey're at least shipping the tablet to the US... maybe it's a trial to see how the US market likes it? There's no hardware burden for them, just FCC shenanigans which I don't know much about, as far as the variance from country to country.20:33
chem|stFCC for wifi is peanuts compared to gsm20:35
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Pebbychem|st: I figured as much.. I'm not sure if it's the same with wifi, but with the hardware I do work on, since the components are all 'known' and have been through the ringer, we don't do much other than declare them to be in our device, I believe.20:36
chem|styeah most of the time you do not even need to send in a device20:37
chem|streport20:37
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chem|stbundled hardware you send in a picture and a shopping list...20:39
chem|stor just schematics20:39
Pebbyyeah we just sent the patent + schematics I believe20:39
chem|stpatent only if you want it protected at FCC20:40
chem|stfor gsm otoh you need a full blown testing stack and sometimes even send a prototype20:41
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juhajIs there any indication as to whether a) there is going to be Jolla v2 soon or b) Jolla is going to stop selling the phone?22:01
Yanielthere have been hints at a) iirc22:04
r0kk3rzjuhaj: not that long until MWC22:04
* cb400f doubts there'll be a Jolla 2 phone until some time after the tablet is released22:05
r0kk3rzgiven they did the whole indiegogo thing for the tablet, they'll probably do the same thing for the next phone22:06
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