#jollamobile log for Saturday, 2015-07-18

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dirkvlfans of bamwar5.com here :p06:16
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TMavicaJolla together under attack??06:27
locusfagai?06:30
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dirkvly06:32
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ced117this crap...06:49
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Liekeno worries, coderus already marked two of the posts as spam, he'll be done with all of them in a few hours I'd bet07:09
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Nightmare__can someone turn off new topics on together until those spam bots are killed?07:18
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ced117i hope so :-/07:21
ced117this fucking spam just wont stop.07:21
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tbrit stopped. at least currently all users are blocked who were posting those07:21
ced117good.07:22
tbrthey were creating new accounts though07:22
tbrso keeping an eye on thta07:22
ced117:-/07:23
tbralso please don't mark posts or interact with them. that puts your username on them. I almost killed a legitimate user that way...07:23
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ced117ok tbr, noted.07:23
Nightmare__oh there is no captcha on the jolla account creation page07:24
Nightmare__tbr: check07:24
tbrlooks like they gave up for now07:24
tbrping me if they come back07:24
ced117ok !07:24
tbrI think someone with database access should clean out the posts though07:25
Nightmare__+107:25
tbrit's rather slow to open them in tabs, scroll down, delete, confirm07:25
tbrStskeeps: who has db-admin on TJC to clean up?07:27
tbrtigeli: ^^^07:27
ced117right07:28
TemeVOh, there is 46 pages of that shit07:28
ced117that many...07:28
ced117tbr, it's starting again...07:36
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chem|sttbr: eric at least, the db seems or the site seems to run bugged after teh "maintenance break" yesterday...07:38
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* tbr went through 'recent users' and blocked the obvious spammers07:46
tbrthere are a few with zero posts that look suspicious07:48
ced117:-)07:48
Stskeepstbr: think our IT is on it07:48
tbrStskeeps: good07:48
tbrall I could do was stop the post influx anyway07:49
Stskeepsi find it rather curius it's korean07:50
Nightmare__do you think these users are created manually or automated?07:50
tbrlooked manual. IIRC registration needs email confirmation, which can be scripted, but is also cheap to outsource to some monkeys07:51
* Stskeeps heads off to a walk in the park07:51
tbreven the posts could be manual. at least they looked like it07:52
ced117why are they doing this here anyway...07:52
Coolgeek because they can ?07:56
ced117ha, right... :-p07:57
Coolgeekbtw, some questions. Is is possible to import contact and SMS from an android phone ?07:58
Nightmare__manual posts und users are hard to fight07:58
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chem|sttbr: the tmo attacks also seemed like manual account creation, looks like the same pattern of posts too08:00
chem|stCoolgeek: SMS? don't know how to export them from android08:01
ced117wow, good question08:01
Coolgeekchem|st: I found it on my phone. It make a file on my SDcard08:01
Coolgeekmaybe it's a feature from HTC then08:01
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chem|stdon't remember who but someone wrote a script for N9>Jolla, look at that for importing patterns08:02
Coolgeekso, there is no already made script to do that... will try when I will receive it08:03
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Coolgeekthe export is in binary format >_<08:07
chem|stCoolgeek: don't know, most people I know doing that stuff come from maemo, not android, search tmo and tjc08:08
chem|stor ask on both08:09
chem|stStskeeps: .kr is the anual attack on tmo, looks like same patterns and eric is aware, I already told him to mark that date in calendar for next year08:10
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Coolgeekhmm, managed to have my SMS into a csv file, seems quite straight forwards to turn it into a csv file for jollaImport08:35
Coolgeekdoes the phone can import vcf file for contacts08:36
Coolgeek?08:36
Nightmare__yes08:37
Coolgeekgreat :D08:38
Nightmare__settings/apps/contacts/import from file08:38
Coolgeekmy phone exported my contact into one single vcf file08:38
Coolgeekshould be good then :D08:38
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coderus" please don't mark posts or interact with them. that puts your username on them. I almost killed a legitimate user that way..." haha, okaay :D08:48
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coderusi stopped when realized it's more 40 pages :D08:49
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coderusbtw, right after announcing intex phone, right?08:53
chem|stcoderus: doubt it is related08:55
coderuscoincidence? don't think so :D08:55
chem|stit is the same pattern as the annual tmo spamfest, also .kr08:56
coderusit will be better, if they create new users and vote for sailfish features on tmo. +100 votes each hour, cool? :D08:57
coderusoh, not tmo, tjc ofc.08:57
Coolgeekis there a link for those votes ?08:58
chem|sthehe08:58
coderusCoolgeek: link to what?08:58
Coolgeekthe page of the vote08:58
Coolgeekwant to see what is there :p08:58
coderusopen tjc, search interesting feature request, and click on ^ button08:58
Coolgeekok08:58
coderustjc is designed for taht: to help jolla have motivation for implementing high votedd features08:59
chem|stCoolgeek: as you are just transfering android>jolla you seem to be new then right? tjc is together.jolla.com Q&A platform used as polling system08:59
Coolgeekchem|st: just ordered two days ago, waiting for the phone to be here09:00
chem|stah ok09:00
Coolgeeksorry for asking such noob questions09:00
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chem|stno problem09:01
coderusCoolgeek: btw, about your question, i'm sure android shoud have at least 10 good applications with sms backup option, and at least 2 of them can produce non-encrypted output, so somebody can create a tool for jolla for importing it09:01
chem|stwe will spam you with lmgtf.com and other links^^09:01
chem|stcoderus: he has a csv already09:02
Coolgeekcoderus: I managed to do that. just wandering if someone made one that export to a format jolla compatible09:02
Coolgeekwondering*09:02
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Coolgeekit would save me some headache :p09:03
coderusjolla have own sms export/import?09:03
* coderus never using backups on phone09:03
Coolgeekfound a script on tjc09:03
* coderus only have some random sms, nothing to backup09:03
chem|stCoolgeek: merlin_1991 wrote the import scripts for N9, maybe he is willing to assist you09:03
Coolgeekchem|st: he write the format of the csv needed for his app to import SMS into jolla09:04
chem|sthttps://github.com/merlin1991/Harmattan-SMS-Boat09:04
CoolgeekI have to transform mine into his to work with that :)09:04
chem|stah you got it already09:04
CoolgeekI searched a bit before asking :p09:04
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Coolgeekbut, as I am new here, maybe I searched in the wrong place09:05
chem|styeah just transform your csv to his format and you should be good to go09:05
Coolgeekyup, will do that09:05
coderuswell, if you have csv with a ndroid sms history, it will be easy to conver it to jolla importer format09:05
chem|stCoolgeek: use google to search site:talk.maemo.org and together, you should find most of the stuff09:06
CoolgeekI used an app from the play store to do it09:06
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chem|stboth sites have very bad search engines but are properly indexed at google09:06
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coderusi believe simple python script with 10-20 lines can handle that09:06
chem|stcoderus: you mean thevault patterns?09:07
CoolgeekI will do it in shell, as I don't know python09:07
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coderuschem|st: i mean converting from android app csv format to jolla importer csv format09:07
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chem|stcoderus: that is just swapping csv columns...09:08
chem|stand remove overhead I guess09:08
Coolgeekand deleting some, rework separator, and transform date format09:08
coderusyes, and probably reconverting timestamp09:09
coderusshould be pretty easy, i said09:09
Coolgeekyup09:09
Coolgeeknothing to be afraid of09:09
coderusand dont forget to write a guide and final script to tjc and tmo after finishing ;)09:09
chem|stStskeeps: http://www.theverge.com/2015/7/16/8976561/marshall-london-smartphone-images09:10
chem|stcoderus: +1 :)09:10
CoolgeekI saw the same question to tjc with no answer, maybe I will take my shovel to bring it back with my answer09:10
coderuschem|st: wow, marshall smartphone o_O09:11
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chem|stlow spec phone though, but as said, Jolla still needs to find its niche besides geeks09:13
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chem|stguess primary concern of that phone hardware is recording and playing music09:14
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coderusyeah i know what marshall is :D09:14
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chem|stas all people doing photography and music tend to use apple, it might be a good idea to attack that with open source09:15
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ppI'd guess small niches could be found in phones that are otherwise mid-range but do one thing extra really really well09:15
chem|stpp: my thoughts...09:15
ppcamera, sound (808 is still unbeatable I believe?)09:16
dunpgimp and piviti to sailfish?09:16
chem|stNokia was way ahead of everyone else in mobile camera applications09:16
chem|stdunp: with the tablet, darktable would be a good idea09:17
r0kk3rzdont underestimate the power of the geek niche09:17
r0kk3rzthey just need to get it into the hands of more geeks09:18
dunpblender :D and farm renderin support :)09:18
chem|str0kk3rz: without keyboard?09:18
r0kk3rzeven without keyboard09:18
r0kk3rzkeyboard fetish is just a n9 geek thing, not an every geek thing09:19
chem|str0kk3rz: I collaborate with people as geek as it gets, none of them are even interested in buying a jolla, some stick to n90009:19
r0kk3rzwhere as my friends in australia seemed to like the jolla, except they cant buy one09:20
chem|st(that does not include my maemo.org base)09:20
dunpand https://lmms.io/09:20
r0kk3rzand im sure theres a subset of people in the US that would buy one also09:20
Coolgeekbtw, why jolla can't ship around the world ?09:20
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r0kk3rzeven here in the UK, one of my work colleagues likes the idea of sailfish but he cant buy one from a carrier09:21
chem|str0kk3rz: my unix-working group at university did n900 and n9 alot, no jolla but me09:21
dunpi liked n900 alot too09:22
r0kk3rzchem|st: obviously keyboard fetishists09:22
dunphttp://neo900.org/  :)09:22
r0kk3rzwhich is fine, be interesting to see what the fairphones usb expansion port is like09:22
r0kk3rzthen we can have tohkbd for that too09:22
chem|stdunp: that is already outdated09:22
chem|str0kk3rz: people paid 600eur for n900, with no keyboard they'd never buy it09:23
chem|sta flip keyboard smartphone would already be a niche09:24
r0kk3rzyeah but not everyone had the opportunity to buy an n9/0009:24
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r0kk3rzlike the aforementioned australian and us market09:24
chem|str0kk3rz: ehrm n9 have never been officially sold in germany, but I know a lot of peops having one09:25
chem|stif you want something you find a way09:25
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chem|stI know of people travelling 500km to pick a white n9 64gb up from a maildrop company09:26
r0kk3rzthats still europe though09:27
r0kk3rz500km is nothing compared to a flight from aus...09:27
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r0kk3rzanyway, theres a big world out there :P09:29
r0kk3rzi dont think i have ever actually seen an n9/00 in the wild, ever...09:29
PeperJohnnyn900 was the best smartphone i ever had :<09:31
Lieken900 was the only smartphone i had before the jolla09:31
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r0kk3rzsome might say the n900 was the only smartphone09:34
dunpn900 is best mobile computer real os09:34
dunponly multiuser feature wold be added to it09:35
r0kk3rzi dont understand why you would want multiuser?09:36
r0kk3rzphone is about as personal as it gets these days09:36
dunpif you kive it to kids..09:36
r0kk3rzalmost like the logical conclusion of the 'personal computer'09:36
r0kk3rzyeah i suppose theres the kid factor09:36
dunpor some will suft at web or own mail account to private and work09:37
r0kk3rzbut dont people buy them their own by the time their 5 these days anyway?09:37
dunpuse voip for and difrent apps to disrent user..09:37
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chem|stLieke: +1, all others are feature phones with huge touchscreens09:44
chem|stdunp: kids do not get to my computers09:45
Siddei don't understand why phones and tablets don't have a good multi user support09:47
Siddeso many people in the industry has to live with or close to kids09:47
Siddei don't have kids but lots of friends do. They have their games on my tablets and phones. But it would be a lot better to have a game user with settings according to their needs09:48
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Siddestupid silicon valley developers that have no clue what real people do...09:48
dunpi have at my computer lot user to my self :D to make different thinks09:48
PeperJohnnyreminds me of the apple stocks app that isn't deletable, because stocks are of utmost importance for apple devs it seems09:50
Siddelike the tutorial app in sailfish?09:51
Sidde;)09:51
PeperJohnnyWell i think the tutorial app is at least used once ;)09:51
Siddehaha09:51
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r0kk3rztutorial app can be deleted10:22
r0kk3rzit just comes back with every update10:22
chem|stjust like simkit10:25
chem|stand actually you can uninstall everything... but I doubt it is wise to do so10:26
Liekethe tutorial app doesn't bother me as much since we have folder support10:26
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Sidder0kk3rz: wasn't there a bug with uninstalling the tutorial app too10:35
Siddebroke the system if you did10:35
r0kk3rznot to my knowledge, but an additional icon doesnt really bother me10:37
Siddei'm pretty sure it was, maybe a year ago or more10:39
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ced117and that spam, again and again...10:49
chem|stced117: they are all hands on deck afaik10:50
ced117i just saw the team did a great job cleaning that spam :-o10:54
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r0kk3rzsurely they can close signups, ban users, clear spam topics11:02
r0kk3rzjobs done11:02
r0kk3rzunless askbot doesnt allow you to close signups11:03
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adherryhmm, my jolla is broken12:31
Knoftefix it?12:31
adherrymy grandmother says she tried to call me 3 times, but I only got one notification about a missed call12:31
adherryI didnt plan to buy a new phone this year again :(12:32
tadzikI assume you considered a possibility that she is mistaken?12:32
adherryI doubt it12:32
adherrysince it now happened twice with her12:33
adherrydo you think she will call the wrong contact 5 times?12:33
tadzikI have no idea12:33
tadzikbut I learned to never underestimate the human factor :)12:33
sharpneliadherry: I get those too from time to time. I've just learned to accept it.12:33
sharpneliadherry: It's not the only thing wrong with my Jolla12:34
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adherrywell, if a phone fails to let you phone then it is at least a major flaw12:41
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arvuthi, why does my sisters jolla not have the mobile network symbol on quicksettings? there is only flightmode, wlan and bluetooth there.. she uses a top-up card from vodaphone12:46
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HarhaanJohtajawell has she removed it?12:48
HarhaanJohtajabut you can add there many things by long press12:49
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arvutcheers, I'll give it a try12:50
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arvutworked just fine, she must have removed it by accident12:56
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Lipevakalaadherry: are you using latest optin? 1.1.7.24? If so fill a bug.12:58
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arvuthow do I update to .7.24? can only get .6.2713:02
Yanielhave you signed up for early access releases?13:03
Yaniel1.1.7 is still in early access13:03
arvutah, the "sign up for.." stuff?13:04
arvutand no, I haven't, would love to tho, I'm using testbranch in gentoo so I'm used to unstable software13:06
Yanieltick the checkbox on https://account.jolla.com and you should find the update soon13:07
arvutwhere do I sign up, and what are the requirements?13:07
arvutthanks yaniel13:07
Yanielrequirements are... well, the usual "this may break your cat" etc13:08
arvut=)13:09
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adherrywtf. just had a 39/39 shade of naxx against me13:58
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r0kk3rzandroid repo hybris-11.0 branch? or hybris2-11.0 branch?14:09
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Cy8aerhey what is just happening to tjc? Korean spam?14:31
TMavicaJolla together got attack again...14:31
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r0kk3rzseems ok atm14:43
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Nightmare__tbr: spam startet again15:21
tbrNightmare__: no, it ended 10min ago when I killed the user. It's just that TJC is slower than molasses during finnish winter and doesn't want to delete postings15:22
* tbr wonders if tigeli and the others haven't found a way to deal with this yet15:23
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tbrNightmare__: they come in random bursts and it's fast to kill the account, but deleting postings seems to take ages15:24
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tbrI even tried to extract the POST command sent to the site to run that manually, but something seems to fail, probably needs an exact referer or token15:26
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Nightmare__ok15:29
Nightmare__i don't think they can do much about it if they post with paid monkeys15:31
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r0kk3rzah yes, the ol human spam bots15:36
r0kk3rzban korean ips?15:36
IZhCan we limit number of posts per minute?15:36
r0kk3rzi dont think we have much of a korean contingent15:36
Teemuin the earlier days of spam much of it was automated but recently it has somehow become ludircous or at least profitable business to sell human labour for the purpose of spamming15:38
Teemui'm not sure who pays for it but those that do it are getting paid15:38
r0kk3rzsurely you just have humans doing signups15:38
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r0kk3rzand leave the actual spam to the bots15:39
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IZhJavaScript is a good way to fight agains bots. Most of them can't execute it. There could be a hidden field in the form, computed by js code.15:41
IZhAny submits without this value can be left in moderatora backlog.15:42
IZhToday even phone browsers can execute js. But most of bots can't15:42
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Teemuforms could be forgot alltogether in favour of textfield widgets that submit their contents via ajax15:44
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tiwakemeh15:52
tiwakejust IRC15:52
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tigelitbr: there's no really good way to handle the issue, but we are looking into adding some recathpa's16:23
tbrtigeli: so they are now on random IPs?16:23
tigelir0kk3rz: it's not just korean ip's as it's botnet which is being used16:23
tigelitbr: yep16:23
tbrroger16:23
r0kk3rztigeli: :/16:24
tigelitbr: I could still block few of the subnets16:24
r0kk3rzthat makes things harder16:24
tbrcaptchas won't really help in my experience :/16:24
* tbr runs a well exposed bug tracker at trac.xiph.org16:24
r0kk3rzinstaban users that post korean unicode characters....16:25
tigelitbr: well, they are not perfect but at least they would have to change their code too ;)16:25
tbrwhat seems to currently sort of keep things at bay is a combination of bayesian spam filter and checking against external anti-forum spam apis16:25
tbrI still see several times per day a human will solve the captcha manually, but then their postings (manual or automatic) get caught in the filters16:26
tigeliwe could enable akismet spam detection if the thing goes on16:27
tigelijust wondering how good it is16:27
tbryes, akismet is one of the APIs that I use16:27
tbrtigeli: quite good I think. with TJC volume and it being commercial you'd need to buy the service though16:27
tigeliyep16:28
tigelitbr: also.. spammers are using people power in random websites to solve captchas16:28
tigeli"solve this and you get free bananas"16:28
tbrtigeli: yes, that's what I said above :)16:28
r0kk3rzor inserting captchas into normal login forms, and people are just solving them16:29
tbrtigeli: on the above mentioned bug tracker akismet will give me a 81.6% hit with zero false positives. And that's basically _just_ the registration form (with a trap field)16:30
tbrthe bayesian filters that self train are at 98.6%16:30
r0kk3rzsounds rather good16:31
tbrwell the bots are also rather stupid16:31
r0kk3rzalthough im sure tigeli would rather be working on other things....16:31
tbrthere's a text field that doesn't serve any good purpose on the registration form. bots will fill it16:31
tbrhumans will ignore it or fill something that doesn't get classified as spam16:32
tbrin case of tjc, I think what could work would be to use either a bayesian filter or akismet to flag posts and hide them for moderation16:33
tbrwould need an efficient frontend for moderating those though16:33
tbranother API is StopForumSpam, but they have a lower hit rate in my case and some false positives16:35
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TemeVSo, you're saying that with Jolla even spam is #peoplePowered?16:56
TemeVWould be nice to know that who has intrest for the spamming16:57
YanielI was going to say that :D16:58
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r0kk3rzpresumably those websites in the topics are the beneficiaries17:22
r0kk3rzincreased mentions to boost google rankings or something17:22
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LipevakalaMy phone gets hot (+40c/regular use) and batterylife is not that good  (1.1.7.24). Wery smooth but can not recommend at this point.17:27
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Aciidshipping in may19:52
r0kk3rzdidnt you get your already Aciid?20:00
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