#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-07-29

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pdanekhttps://oneplus.net/ie/201:03
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zutto679 in line for that o703:40
arvutgood morning finland03:42
arvuthas any of you kexec jumped with the jolla yet? I might testcandidate my own broken phone some day in the next-to-present, gonna play with it on x86 hardware for now03:45
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TMavicaHi07:33
Stskeepzmoo TMavica07:34
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dr_gogeta86good morning07:36
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TMavicaGood afternoon. I just wake by the way. Lol07:45
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SfietKonstantinWTMavica: morning then ;)07:48
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TMavicaStill tired07:49
SfietKonstantinWsame07:50
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birdzhanggood afternoon XD07:51
TMavicaMy company just signed a contract with Finnair with maintainence in Hong Kong, long period with many job...07:52
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TMavicaWrong channel07:55
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TMavicaSo many google services running if alien dalvik enabled..it used 40% memory...going to uninstall it..08:46
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SfietKonstantinWTMavica: my device is google services free08:56
SfietKonstantinWand I feel good08:56
the_mgtonly pain is the lack of proper appstore08:57
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the_mgtmanually pulling apks from the playstore page is a pita08:57
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the_mgtbtw, how would I pull an apk for android 4.2? One of the packages I'd need is only 4.4 at the store atm08:58
dr_gogeta86SfietKonstantinW, so you have 6 month old apps ?08:59
ggabrielproper appstore? the thing you're likely to get in the appstore are viruses :P08:59
SfietKonstantinWdr_gogeta86: I do not use Android apps much08:59
SfietKonstantinWand even 6 month old wechat works08:59
dr_gogeta86wechat isn't compiled with gapps inside else doesn't startup in china :-D08:59
the_mgtyes, that's what I meant. I distrust apotoid and without the play app, you have outdated apps (which does not matter much to me, most of the time)09:00
the_mgtyeah, luckily, most of my apps do not need the gservices stuff either09:00
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citylight2does anyone have a working chrome on their jolla?09:13
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birdzhangnot installed yet09:15
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stephgcitylight2: I did have at one stage, it worked iirc09:34
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citylight2stephg: where did you get the apk file from?09:53
stephgoh I have play services installed09:55
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ggabrielstephg: oh no, does that mean that you've been uploading all these conversations to none other than google?!09:55
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stephgjajajajaja09:57
stephg;)09:57
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TMavicaAny body got system_server process running when alien dalvaik enabled??10:01
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chem|stTMavica: yes11:10
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dv_is there any good reason why the image viewer cannot zoom arbitrarily? I cannot zoom photos beyond their original size12:19
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ggabrieldv_: isn't that the case with most mobile image viewers?12:21
dv_it wasnt with the android one12:21
ggabrieli guess there's no point in zooming into 1 pixel or zooming out so that the picture fits in 1 pixel, so they put reasonable levels12:21
dv_I generally configure viewers to scale images to fit the screen12:22
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dv_a few days ago I wanted to zoom in on a detail on an image, but that didnt fly12:22
ggabrieli'm realizing that android may not come with an image viewer by default12:22
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ggabrielbut at least the ios one did the same... you have top and bottom to zoom out/in12:23
ggabrieland that's it12:23
dv_not exactly ideal12:23
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ggabrielok, my android camera can't zoom in all the way12:23
ggabrielor zoom out12:24
ggabrielso, smae behaviour12:24
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dv_I had an s3 before. so perhaps it was a samsung viewer12:24
ggabrieli guess if you zoom in up to original size (i.e., picture resolution = screen resolution), there's no point in going on?12:25
dv_there is if I want to zoom in on details12:25
ggabrielesp in jolla's low res screen12:25
dv_which I do every now and then12:25
ggabrielbut they get pixelated12:25
dv_not if it is a high-res photo12:25
ggabrielso you aren't zooming into details, you're pixelating12:25
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ggabrielok, you said " I cannot zoom photos beyond their original size12:26
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ggabrieli understand that that's when res(pic)=res(screen)12:26
TemeVggabriel: but sometimes the pixelated pic is better12:26
TemeVe.g. looking a detail from a longer distance12:26
ggabrielTemeV: when the girl is very ugly, yes12:26
ggabrieloh, sorry, you meant something else :P12:26
TemeVI mean, if you look the screen two meters away, you can't see it is pixelated12:27
ggabrieli agree that for edga cases it may be useful to zoom in/out infinitely12:27
TemeVcurrently you can't see anything beacause can't zoom in12:27
ggabrieljust trying to explain some rationale behind the limits imposed12:27
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dv_yeah, I understand.12:27
ggabrielbut i can zoom in12:27
ggabrielnot all the way12:27
TemeVyeah, there is kind of rationale for that12:28
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ggabrielyou may even be able to turn that off via qml, you never know12:28
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TemeVbut I'd still like to zoom in so that I see the pixels. Then I know there it can't be zoomed any more12:28
ggabrielmaybe the best approach would be to be able to zoom in only a few levels in the same gesture12:29
ggabrieland then again in another gesture12:29
dv_yeah that sounds good12:29
ggabrielso you don't accidentally do one gesture and end up looking at a single pixel worth of picture12:29
dv_ggabriel: one example: a photo made by a friend, and in the background, there was a sign. we wanted to see what it says. zooming in gives us a grainy pixelated image, but we are able to discern what the sign is saying.12:30
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dv_unfortunately, in real life, we dont have csi enhance buttons :)12:30
Helledv_: well, we have to some degree12:31
ggabrielok, it doesn't stop at original size12:31
ggabrielit stops after a few levels12:31
Helledv_: but yeah, hardly as good as CSI :)12:31
ggabrielso really high res pics can't be seen in detail12:31
ggabrielpics taken with the jolla camera are ok tho12:31
dv_Helle: jolla needs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5wfJXLOSzw :D12:31
dv_ggabriel: I like the idea with the limit-per-gesture12:32
ggabrielthere's a disadvantage tho dv_12:32
dv_I suppose with gesture you mean pinch-zoom?12:32
ggabrielyou have to zoom all the way out to be able to swipe/access pulley/etc12:33
ggabrieldv_: i mean pinch-zoom indeed12:33
dv_yes, true12:33
ggabrielmaybe you can long tap12:33
ggabrieli dunno12:33
dv_isnt this the case with all image viewers on smartphones tho?12:33
ggabrielchallenge for the ux12:33
ggabrielopen a tjc :)12:33
dv_alright12:33
ggabrielwell, but that disadvantage justifies the limitation somewhat12:33
dv_also, second (and more serious): I installed the EZ file explorer from aptoide, tried to copy files over samba,12:34
dv_and as it turns out, I cannot access them12:34
dv_something to do with permissions. apparently, the files are owned by a different user.12:34
ggabrielerm, i'm not sure how well alien dalvik accesses the network12:34
ggabrielthat sounds like a problem in your server really12:34
dv_no I mean locally, on the flash memory12:35
ggabrielbut i don't use samba so i can't comment much really12:35
ggabrielyou mean an android application copying files into the sd card?12:35
ggabriel(is that even possible? :P )12:35
dv_I'll try to replicate12:36
dv_in Downloads/: normal files: user nemo group privileged12:37
dv_the one I copied: user 10016 group 1001612:38
dv_(I am logged in ssh)12:38
Yaniel10016 is probably dalvik12:38
dv_as a result, I can't even delete these files12:38
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Yanieldevel-su chown12:39
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dv_Yaniel: hah, didnt know about devel-su. thanks12:50
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chrisXYZi not shure what to buy? a jolla or a ubuntu phone. why do u prefer jolla?14:08
tadzikI bought jolla when ubuntu wasn't a thing yet, so no strong opinions really14:08
tadzika friend of mine bought ubuntu phone do, and his experience is far worse than my experience with jolla :)14:08
ursbecause the company is sitting in the city I live in, and it's good knowing that if they screw up, I can go there and slap them. :)14:09
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chrisXYZ:)14:09
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ggabrielsame as tadzik ubuntu wasn't a thing, but i would probably not go with them as i don't like desktop ubuntu14:11
ggabrieland the ui is too complex14:11
ggabrielthey do have loads of gestures, which is good, but there were too many overlaying menus "a la" android when i saw it14:11
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chrisXYZcon i run software like sshd or a webserver? is there a repository for this king of stuff?14:12
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ggabrielwell, it comes with sshd14:12
chrisXYZs/king/kind/g14:12
ggabrieland you can run anything that's linux - some things come with it, some others are compiled by the community and available in openrepos for example14:13
ggabrielulitmately, you can compile yourself14:13
chrisXYZdo u have a link for those openrepos14:13
ggabrieli expect that ubuntu is the same though, otherwise they'd have lost all my respect14:13
ggabrielopenrepos.net14:13
ggabrielit comes with a native client too14:14
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ggabrielif only i could remember the name14:14
ggabrieli know custodian makes it14:14
ggabrielwarehouse, that's it14:14
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chrisXYZggabriel: thx, for the link to openrepo, looks good.14:22
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citylight2how to use to with statements is debian/rules dh ?16:36
citylight2I ment to write dh --with python2 --with systemd16:36
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pdanekDo you guys know any proven service which can resend the products from snapdeal internationally?17:27
pdanekThere must be some Indian company doing it.17:27
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r0kk3rzyou really want an intex phone huh pdanek17:45
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pdanekr0kk3rz: pretty much anything out there must be stronger HW than Jolla17:46
pdanekso I want some Sailfish phone17:46
attahdon't forget a fresh battery :)17:47
r0kk3rzjolla hw isnt so bad17:48
pdanekit's really lowend phone at this point17:48
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r0kk3rzstill the highest-end phone ive ever had17:49
pdaneknewest Chinese top models are getting 4G memory17:49
pdanekI don't say I need 4G memory17:49
pdanekbut 2G would help a lot17:49
pdanekI do have memory problems on Sailfish a lot17:49
attahit shouldn't have to be.. it's just that some things are so very demanding for no obvious reason17:49
chem|str0kk3rz: :)17:49
chem|stsailfish runs smoother on this hardware than android on 700eur phones17:50
r0kk3rzyeah comparing tech specs with android is like comparing android specs with an iphone17:51
r0kk3rzthey're completely different beasts17:51
attahchem|st: until you run in to certain javascript-heavy websites i don't disagree with you17:51
pdanekchem|st: no it doesn't17:51
r0kk3rzbut i am keen to see some reviews of the intex phone once it surfaces17:51
pdanekI bought cheap 150 eur android phone as temporary solution (but now back with Jolla) and it was superfast17:52
chem|stpdanek: at least my 300eur phone is way slower than jolla, and any other android I know17:52
pdanekoctacore mediatek, 2G memory17:52
pdanekand really smooth17:52
chem|stpdanek: with those 700eur phones you pay the name17:53
chem|stthe china imports for 80eur are usually as fast17:53
pdanekyep17:53
pdanekand mediatek is really good deal17:53
pdanekIf Jolla wants to fight markets like China, Russia, India and go with cheap price, I don't understand why Qualcomm is reference platform and not Mediatek17:54
chem|stand still, frozen apps all over, with 15 apps frozen in bg, loading taskmanager takes ages17:54
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r0kk3rzexcept their sources are harder to get than even qualcomm17:54
r0kk3rzfairphone1 shipped with a mediatek, and basically you're stuck with the stock system because nobody can build anything for it17:55
pdanekoh17:55
pdanekwell17:55
pdanekI just want my Intex soon17:55
pdanekas temporary relieve17:55
pdanekuntil we get some flagship monster17:55
pdanekI want flagship monster haha17:55
pdanekUbuntu has it, why can't we17:55
pdanekBecause Meizu MX4 with Ubuntu Touch is quite good phone17:56
locusfis mx4 flagship?17:56
pdanekIt was17:56
pdaneknot it's old17:56
locusfn6, g4 are17:56
pdanekI do hope MX5 will be released with Ubuntu too17:56
pdanekHave you seen Meizu MX5?17:56
pdanekIt's beast17:56
* attah just wants N9 build quality17:56
pdanekfor great price17:56
locusfnope17:56
r0kk3rzpdanek: ubuntu also uses libhybris, buy an MX4 and run sailfish on it17:57
pdanekr0kk3rz: is everything going to work?17:57
locusfcan't17:57
locusflocked bootloader so no mer kernel17:57
locusfafaik17:57
r0kk3rzwhaaaaat17:57
locusfah no17:58
r0kk3rzffs17:58
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locusffaenil said the european ones are unlocked17:58
r0kk3rzi figured it was a case of 'nobody has tried it yet'17:58
pdanekI'm not NeoFreerunner type of hacker who will spend my life by trying to run Sailfish on some phone17:58
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locusfwell that too17:58
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r0kk3rzpdanek: you wont need to spend your life, maybe a little while though18:02
locusfheheh18:03
pdanekr0kk3rz: and coming sailfish upgrades will break shit again?18:03
pdanekand again spending time18:03
locusfit has taken me 5 months to get even graphics on a device18:03
pdanekI want "just works" solution18:03
pdanek:)18:03
pdanekso Sailfish on phone out of the box18:04
locusfyeah no ota on hadk devices (yet)18:04
pdanekIs dirklv having plans to continue with TOHKBD project?18:11
pdanekLike if there will be new Sailfish device with TOH, possibly 3rd generation of TOH?18:11
Sfiet_Konstantinpdanek: will there be new sailfish device with TOH ?18:16
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locusf3rd?18:23
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pdaneklocusf: yes, current TOHKBD is 2nd version18:36
pdanekSfiet_Konstantin: Stskeeps advised me to keep my TOHKBD, so I just hope he knows something we don't know18:38
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Nicd-pdanek: afaik dirkvl has no plans for a new TOHKBD18:49
Nicd-but if there is a new device, you never know18:49
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chem|stintex looks like TOH18:58
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pdanekchem|st: it does18:59
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Sail0rhttps://simbimbo.wordpress.com/2015/07/24/well-im-at-it-again-this-time-with-macbook-pros/19:02
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pdanekSail0r: why would anyone do this?19:07
Sail0rI don't know19:07
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pdanekWhat do you guys think of Windows 10? Released today, anyone installed it yet?19:13
Sail0rit's still a bit crappy19:13
Sail0respecially the "I automatically install drivers even if you don't want them and they don't work"19:14
pdanek:D19:14
Yanielturns out getting rid of the tech preview is a PITA19:15
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locusfhttp://abload.de/img/windows1034ktx.jpg <- tells quite well what crap it is19:15
pdanek:D19:16
Yanielpretty sure half of that is specific to the insider preview19:16
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pdanekI like the idea that W10 is last Windows and from now, it will be rolling upgrades.19:18
pdanekI like rolling OSes.19:18
pdanekFedora should have long ago switched to rolling releases.19:18
Sail0rmost of these screenshots are from the tech previews @ locusf19:19
locusfwell anyways19:23
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Sail0rand with the ms account19:25
Sail0rnobody blames apple for doing the same with osx19:25
Sail0r^^19:25
locusfyeah and google with its things19:26
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pdanekEveryone is using Gmail.19:51
pdanekEven lots of security paranoids out there.19:52
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fluxwell, it's been claimed that in fact it might be a good idea to have your domain administrative contact at google, as it's difficult to get access of19:53
fluxfor unauthorized party that is19:53
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pdanekWhy it isn't recommended to install Google Play and Google Play Services?20:12
pdanekHow can it hurt or break Sailfish?20:12
pdanekBecuase I had it for years without problems.20:13
pdanekYet Jolla strongly recommends not to install it.20:13
Nicd-pdanek: because it's unsupported by both Jolla and Google20:17
Nicd-and knowing google you might put your account at risk of banning20:17
Nicd-also at least earlier you had to download gapps from some 3rd party site20:18
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pdanekNicd-: oh ok20:24
pdanekso nothing serious from technical point of view20:24
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dv_<pdanek> so nothing serious from technical point of view21:50
pdanekdv: ?21:51
dv_perhaps not, but getting banned by google and/or receiving a potentially hacked gapps version is a big deal21:51
pdanekwas anyone banned yet?21:51
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pdanekthe chance of being banned seems so small like getting hit by car21:53
pdanekso I'm not going to stop crossing the road and making my life difficult21:53
pdaneksame with google play, why should I avoid using it and make my life difficult by for example getting apps like Internet banking as standalone apks (potentially hacked)21:53
phlixidoesnt you bank has a wes site?21:54
phlixiin my opinion its the only pro argument for sailfish, that you do NOT depend on google /apple21:55
phlixiif you install playstore, you could go with android in the first place21:55
phlixithere is actually no reason to go with jolla then21:55
r0kk3rzthats not true, theres plenty of reason21:56
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dv_phlixi: there is always this one app which has no sailfish equivalent. if most of the other stuff is covered by the sailfish apps, and just this one has to be an android one, I see no problem21:57
r0kk3rzi like having an open hackable device, i also like to use a few things that need GPS21:57
phlixiits unreliable, comparable expensive, alpha on all ends, lacks features and apps. android and apple are just in another dimension in terms of quality etc... its just that tiny little thingy, that you have to use either google or apple.21:58
phlixithen if you install google services (always reminds me on brazil), you could as well take android21:58
phlixidont get me wrong, i still prefer the jolla, and buy every single f*cking crap they spit out, to help keep them alive21:59
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phlixiexcept those 200EUR batteries witha useless phone attached :-)22:00
Yanielhehe22:01
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Yanieltbh a fairer comparison would be jolla vs iphone 1 when it came out22:02
Yanielor the first android phones22:02
phlixidv_: yes, for example, i use exactly one apk. it happens, that my peers all use threema. guess what? they sell it on their website for people without gplay :-)22:02
phlixiYaniel: not for someone who does not care about privacy (or for what ever resons you do not like google/apple). for them they can now decide to get a moto G, or a jolla. not an iphone (although i understand what you mean by comparing to iphone1, i do not accept this as an argument^^)22:03
Yanielsure22:04
Yanieleven without accounting for pirvacy, the app ecosystem hasn't exactly had time to mature yet22:04
phlixiif i compare to n900 and n9, it seems to me it wont get bigger, its getting smaller every time22:05
phlixialso the n900 was actually comparable to the then actual iphone, it was even a little bit ahead in some aspects22:06
phlixin9 much less22:06
phlixijolla nothing22:06
r0kk3rzyeah yeah we know already22:07
phlixiallthou jolla seems less dead then n9 after a year, and jolla is actualy for a bit longer available already22:07
phlixihowever, has someone an idea what i might have had done in order to no longer get notifications for calender?22:08
phlixiits weird, there is no notification at all for calender items22:09
phlixii can not think of that i disabled that and can not find whree i can turn them on again22:09
phlixiany ideas?22:09
phlixi:-(22:12
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phlixiwow22:37
phlixithis actally wasnt even implemented22:37
phlixi...according to https://together.jolla.com/question/433/calendar-notification/ it is now, but i can not find how to activate it22:38
phlixiit seems like this is not possible (and of course the part is closed source) wow22:43
phlixinot even a freaking calendar on the phone.22:44
phlixithats ridiculus22:44
phlixi(and no Yaniel thats not even compareable to iphone1 or g1)22:44
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phlixiand even if we go the "we compare it to iphone1" route (which i think is not viable, as explained above) we actually have to compare it to iphone2 or iphone 3g, since we already have like 10 updates and 18months later22:48
phlixi...not a freaking calender...22:49
phlixign822:49
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pdanekIt's because N900 was Nokia and it was bought by many people who had no clue about Maemo.23:13
pdanekJolla is bought only by fans and those few fans can't drive app ecosystem.23:13
pdanekOn N900, I actualy didn't miss Android apps that much.23:14
pdanekOn Jolla it was first thing I started to install wen I got it.23:14
keithzgWell, the world has also changed a lot since then.23:14
keithzgThere weren't as many decent Android apps at the time; for instance during the N900 era, no podcasting client could come close to touching gPodder.23:14
pdanekI still miss N900 times.23:15
keithzgThese days since I'm sadly relegated to Android for various practical purposes (predominantly "my Jolla can't talk to my cellular provider", heh) I've noticed that those equivalent apps are much better. AntennaPod is downright good, even.23:15
pdanekN900 release was most amazing phone release to date23:15
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keithzgI think the N9 compares in many ways there. To this day I've arguably yet to hold a more beautiful phone in my hand.23:16
pdanekN9 was superugly to me23:16
pdanek:D23:16
keithzgAnd the implementation of active notifications is still somewhat superior to anything in existence.23:16
keithzgWell, to each their own!23:16
pdanekI prefer the boxy feel of N900, I'm ThinkPad fan anyway23:17
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keithzgWell, I'm kindof with you there. I love the N9, but most other "sleek" phones feel like they're just . . . boring and unassertive.23:17
keithzgMy laptop is a Chromebook Pixel, which is awesomely boxy.23:17
keithzg(the original gen, that is; Google isn't selling the current gen Pixel in Canada. Hell, almost all the devices I would want aren't being sold to Canada! The Jolla Tablet is literally going to be the first in years that I can get officially, which is kindof crazy.)23:19
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pdanekI just hope for zero-design Intex phone23:19
pdanekI hate anything which has no purpose (design)23:20
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keithzgI'm not personally as . . . autistic :P but there's definitely a beauty in design that stems from functionality. That's actually one of the things I love about the N9, because the curvature of it actually serves a purpose with the swipe-based navigation. And I love my Das Keyboard, which is just a normal key layout with no frills and no useless key lables even :)23:23
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keithzgI wish there were more phones like that one Japanese FirefoxOS phone where the shell was clear so the electronics were on display.23:23
pdanekoh ya, that Japanese FFOS is gorgeous23:25
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pdanekbut I wonder is the plastic duralbility can be achieved the same with clear plastic23:26
keithzgSadly you're probably right.23:26
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