#jollamobile log for Wednesday, 2015-11-11

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tillnew blog post13:43
Nicd-https://blog.jolla.com/tablet_schedule_aptoide_store/13:45
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ggabrieland many people angry14:02
cehteh.. just ship my phone please!14:03
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cehtehanyone knows how long the "In Picking" status last on a order?14:04
Teguthey are picking the ingredients (e.g., silicon from sand etc.)14:06
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cehtehmaybe14:06
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Aciidhttps://twitter.com/AciidXOR/status/66445009027537305614:34
Aciidcast your votes14:34
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eugenioAciid, second option won it seems: https://blog.jolla.com/tablet_schedule_aptoide_store/14:51
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phlixiwhat are the alternatives left without google apple microsoft?14:55
phlixifirefox & ubuntu?14:55
eugeniosailfish?14:55
cos-symbian?14:55
ggabrieldo they have to be alive?14:55
phlixithey better be pre born, than post mortem14:56
phlixii have enough of jollas lies14:56
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eugeniothere is also LuneOS14:56
ggabrielwell, if you aren't born and you can't be after death... you have nothing14:56
phlixiill google that14:56
Tomouse duckduckgo if you are so anti google apple ms :P14:57
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ggabriel^14:57
ggabrielthat14:57
eugeniooh, and Tizen14:57
phlixiwell, i know the dead ones my self :-)14:57
* eugenio still misses webOS14:58
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ggabrielphlixi: but then you have nothing... if you want pre born ones (nonexistent ones) then you have nothing14:59
ggabrielotherwise what people said, except symbian maybe as it's dead14:59
ggabrieleugenio: buy an LG "smart" tv :P15:00
phlixiat the moment i have a jolla phone...15:00
phlixiand i have an lg webos tv as well :D15:00
ggabrielsailfish is a very valid alternative imo15:00
eugenioggabriel, on phones I mean :D15:00
eugeniooh it is, no regrets switching to the Jolla from a pre315:00
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phlixiggabriel with every blogpost of jolla, i think they are more dead15:00
cehtehgot a shipping confirmation :)15:01
ggabrielcehteh: \o/15:01
ggabrielphlixi: well, everybody has an opinion15:01
phlixiwhat is this shit? every 4 weeks i am told i get my tablet in 4 weeks... wtf?15:01
ggabrieli think apple is dead the minute steve jobs died15:01
ggabrieland they haven't delivered anything groundbreaking after that fact15:01
ggabrielit's still an opinion and they're making money apparently15:01
ggabrieltsk language15:02
phlixithe blog post from idk, july? they looked like they are going into production, but nothing happened, it seems as if like 50 devices have been made15:02
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ggabrielphlixi: you're referring to the tablet15:02
ggabrielis this your first ks/indiegogo?15:02
phlixiggabriel no.  and i expect them to be honest, but they lie. they straight up lie15:03
phlixithis is ridivulous, every 4 weeks they tell they ship in 4 weeks15:03
phlixinobody can convinve me, that this is not bullshit15:03
ggabrielmaybe your expectations were set to high15:04
ggabrieland people received their tablets so *shrug*15:04
ggabrielor maybe you don't believe that either15:04
phlixiggabriel do you actually believe, that jolla thought in JULY, that they could actually deliver in august as they claimed? they still do not deliver15:05
phlixithere is no problem in delays, i have problems with lies15:05
ggabriel"believe" is a strong word, i'm quite pragmatic15:06
ggabrieland my expectations are those of a person who very mildly understands the whole process15:06
ggabrielso i expect delays everywhere15:06
phlixiwell, i am no native english speaker, in this case with "belive" i meant "not thinking it is a lie, but honest"15:06
ggabrieli expect e.g., that the odm will prefer to produce some android gizmo than the jolla tablet15:07
ggabrielso there you go - the more you use google, the more you delay the tablet, in a way15:07
phlixiyeah, 5 times in a row?15:07
ggabriel50 fwiw15:07
eugeniomeh, the jolla tablet is an android gizmo after all :P15:07
ggabrieli guess i meant an android gizmo that is backed by a bigger company15:08
ggabrieli worked for small and big companies and teh attention that providers give you depend on your size15:08
eugenioFWIW I have no doubts I'll eventually get my tablet15:08
ggabrieli hope so, i know there's a risk of that not happening either15:09
ggabrielbut i disagree that jolla lied15:09
phlixii also think i will eventually get something, but why all those lies?15:09
ggabrielyou can tell so much about the future15:09
eugeniobut I'm a bit surprised of these long delays, the phone got out in time15:09
ggabriel? the phone got several delays15:09
eugenioafter they changed the chip I mean15:09
eugenioI remember reading a blog post of Mosconi where he said they delayed of only a week15:10
phlixiactually the phone was delayed half a year as well... iut depends on where you count. but there where no lies on the scedule15:10
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Stskeepseugenio: that was on the replanned product program schedule for the new hw15:10
Stskeepseugenio: the old product program went totally bust due to ST-Ericsson dying15:10
eugenioyup, read about that15:11
tillas far as i remember jolla never said "we will deliver on this exact date", they always said "we plan/aim to deliver". so where is the lie?15:11
eugeniobut it also more than a month since the screen on the tablet has been changed15:11
phlixitill: thats not the point15:11
Stskeepseugenio: we changed hardware, architecture and a lot of other shit in 6 months for the new program for phone15:11
tillbut that's how it sound15:11
till+s15:11
ggabrielas with the phone, all these delays will be forgotten the moment the product is in your hands, phlixi15:11
ggabrielso this argument is pointless15:12
Aciidthats why its important to argue now15:12
ggabrielAciid: lol15:12
ggabrielAciid: i'm in the office, don't make me laugh :P15:12
Aciidhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTOenBlWwAAjN3f.png:large15:12
phlixiggabriel thats probably the case for you, i do not want to be on a platform where the "mother" is lying all the time.15:12
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eugenioanyway, still looking forward in getting my tablet ;)15:13
ggabrielphlixi: ok, get a refund and go with apple? they never lie15:13
Aciidthe platform where avergage user is intellegent enough to code their own apps and work brtfs, still lying to like 6 year olds15:13
Aciid"yes mom will come home"15:13
Aciid"MOM IS DEAD"15:13
* till is still unable to see a lie :)15:13
phlixithanks Aciid exactly my point15:13
ggabrielall you need to do to keep things tracking a plan is publish a schedule, of course15:14
ggabrielonce things are on paper, nothing ever gets delayed15:14
cos-it's crowdfunding.. they always ship very late15:14
ggabrieli'll stop with my cynical comments now, sry15:14
phlixiwell, till do you actually think, now in november, that it was not a straight lie, when jolla claimed HALF A YEAR ago, that the will deliver in 4 weeks?15:15
phlixiand then, 5months ago, the same15:15
tillagain, i remember them saying to AIM to deliver15:15
phlixiyeah, but they must have had know, that it is impossible in 4 weeks15:16
ursI wonder how long it'll take until you can buy a tablet in an actual shop.15:16
tilland I trust them that they are doing the best they can to keep their schedule. unfortunately they are not apple or google with the respective ressources15:16
Stskeepscos-: or not at all, http://www.polygon.com/features/2015/8/31/9211969/what-the-hell-is-going-on-with-star-citizen15:16
tillif their contractors changed their planes, what should jolla have done else?15:16
ursBecause I'm really not an early adopter, so I decided to wait for the initial batches to go through, and then buy the second production series where all bugs have been ironed out... in a store.15:17
tillI'm not saying that it's all fine or not frustrating, but I don't agree on calling them liars15:18
phlixiso till, if you order something from me, and i say "i aim to deliver in 4 weeks" allthough i know this is impossible, then this is not a lie? are you serious?=15:18
pp_hmpf hmpf :D 4.5 hours to figure out optimal train internet, either have jolla tether both VR wlan (which blocks xmpp and mosh) and 3/4g (which is occasionally down on the way)15:18
tillaifaik it was crowdfunding with a well described risk15:18
phlixiand i do not talk about it beeing 5 weeks, but 6 months15:18
phlixi(and actually nothing until know, thus MORE than that15:19
pp_or figure out how to configure macos to do that :P15:19
ggabrielurs: uhm... availability on store depends on somebody having some money to produce a batch and put it on sale15:19
Raimphlixi: you backed a crowdfounding campaign for an unfinished product, you did not just order something15:19
phlixiRaim: that is nitpicking. i am totally fine with delays, I am upset about the LIES15:20
ggabrielurs: or keep your eyes open, maybe some people ask for a refund and they have some spares to sell15:20
tillexactly. and if I "order" something knowing this, and getting updates from time to time, I see no reason to call anyone a liar. except if it would be done knowingly and on purpose15:20
phlixiOF COURSE IT IS KNOINGLY15:21
phlixiTHATS THE WHOLE POINT15:21
Raimphlixi: I don't see any lies from Jolla. yes, the delays are unfortunate, but what do you expect them to do different?15:21
phlixiRaim, till you both really think in JULY when they said "4 weeks to go" no one was aware, that this IMPOSSIBLE? sorry, but that is stupid15:22
phlixithey said 4 weeks, and it is more than 6 months. seems unbelievable to me that it should have been possible in 4 weeks back then15:23
till4 weeks according to the schedule if everything works as planned, i would imagine15:23
Raimphlixi: the original shipping goal was September/October, so it is at most 4 weeks behind schedule. although some devices already shipped.15:24
phlixiwell, Raim the ORIGINAL shipping goal was MAI15:25
cos-it would be interesting to see the actual factory production schedules and what happened to them, but i bet they are not public info because of nda's between jolla and subcontractors.15:25
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phlixibut jolla knows whats in those secret dosuments15:26
cos-of course15:26
cos-releasing that info would not speed up production and probably would just cause problems15:27
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tillbtw, where did they claim to deliver in four weeks from july?15:27
phlixitill: read the blog: everytime there is a blog post, exactly that moment was one of the promised dates. actually everything that happens on a promised date is a new blog post15:28
tillshow me a link please, I can't find what you mean15:28
phlixiblog.jolla.com15:28
tillto an exact source of your claim of course15:29
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Raimphlixi: well, if you are in the first campaign it might have been May. but even then some specs were changed... *shrug*15:30
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narchiejolla mobile15:31
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phlixieven worse: April 23, 2015 by Juha Paakkari  https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-iteration-4/ New shipping target for Jolla Tablet: end of July 201515:35
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Yanielnote the word "target" there15:35
ggabrielphlixi: you mentioned you aren't a native speaker, target date doesn't imply a promise or commitment to deliver that date15:35
phlixisorry, but scerw you, its always "aim" target" blahablah15:35
Yanielof course15:36
ggabrielok, I was trying to be nice there, you are quite upset obviously, phlixi and can't listen to reason IMO15:36
phlixithen go to END OF JULY, the date mentioned in above linked post...15:36
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narchiewhat's wrong with you15:37
narchiewhen you set a target15:37
narchieyou're aiming to meet that target15:37
narchienot miss by 6 months15:37
phlixi...if you aimed for 4 weeks15:38
narchieyou don't win in olympic shooting by missing every shot15:39
narchieand then telling the referees15:39
narchie"but that was just a target"15:39
phlixiby the way, its not only for the tablet, its for so many things.... they said "we make tjc and the highest voted stuff gets implemented" ... yeah, look at this: https://together.jolla.com/question/832/system-wide-clipboard-copy-paste-capability/15:39
phlixinothing happens15:39
phlixi(second most voted item ever)15:40
Aciidif this would have been b2b all orders would have been canceled 6months ago15:42
Raimthe iPhone needed 3 iterations to get copy & paste :-P15:42
Aciidbut being a cuck consumer and IGG in between no way to cancel all15:42
AciidRaim: yeah but iPhone is not 6months late each release15:42
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Raimmaybe it is? you just don't know. they also do not announce features beforehand, maybe they scrap them last minute every time? you just never hear of that.15:43
phlixitill Raim did you looked that up? here, for you: July 23, 2015 by Carol Chen https://blog.jolla.com/jolla-tablet-display-shipping-update/ Ramping up for general shipments to contributors will take about 3-5 weeks15:44
phlixi...that points to end of august15:44
Aciidif Jolla woudl have been a japanese company the owners would have all commited suicide by now15:45
Aciidjust sayin15:45
Aciidbut in Finland they just part the company15:45
Aciid=)15:45
phlixii leave it up to you, to find the next blog post, the next promise, and the next delay (a new blog post)15:45
StskeepsAciid: i thought it's laying down in the snow to die15:45
phlixiraim and till you are so quiet know?15:46
Raimphlixi: maybe they just can't tell you the cause of the delays due to NDA. I still don't see "lies".15:47
phlixiyou must be blind then15:47
coderusphlixi: you might know system-wide-clipboard-copy-paste-capability is the hardest wish ever, due do Qt limitations15:47
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Raimphlixi: I am confident all tablets will be delivered eventually.15:48
phlixiRaim: i never questioned that15:48
Aciidthey will but for the time being its a right to be  on the offensive15:48
coderusbut tell me if you can copy any text in Ubuntu Touch or BB10 Qt Apps, it will be interesting to look at impllementation15:48
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phlixii am sick of the lies, thats all15:49
tillphlixi: "ramping up for shipment" does hardly mean the tablet will be sent by then to my understanding15:49
Aciidno but I can in my iphone and ipad jsut right, also I can share it from my iphone to my macbook15:49
Aciidcalled cohorence15:49
Aciidit just werks15:49
ggabrielAciid: yuk, you need an application to copy/paste on ios?15:49
Aciidno15:49
ggabrielit hardly works on android system wide anyway15:49
phlixiggabriel ofc not, "it just works"15:50
Aciidit works anywhere on ios where there is uilabel widget15:50
RaimAciid: a device with >10 years of development, that did not have copy & paste at all until 3.015:50
ggabrieli haven't tried ios in ~2 years, but it wans't working ok on ios 4/515:50
tillbut I agree with ggabriel's comment15:50
ggabrielsometimes it doesn't even work on my desktop unless i tweak stuff15:50
ggabrielso, copy/paste is hard15:50
AciidRaim: yeah sometimes it's more important to think about which glass coatings can withstand cocaine base without going mushy.15:51
Aciidso copy paste was not that important15:51
the_mgtcopy and pasting has been working "on linux" for quite some time. even in things like enlightenment 1715:51
coderusdont tell me about other platforms please, only about Qt15:51
phlixiof course it is not hard to implement copy & paste if you own the system. it is a matter of priorities15:51
ggabrielthe_mgt: yeah, but not perfectly ;) that's my point: there's always something with copy/paste, also regresses sometimes15:51
the_mgt"qt limitations" is something nobody should dare to say. people have been laughing hard for non working stuff in linux in the last century15:52
the_mgtnot getting copy&paste to work is more than a shame15:52
phlixinot trying to is even worse15:52
cos-well, copy-paste doesn't work everywhere in windows15:52
coderusnobody want to understand, i see :)15:52
coderusi'm off ftom this chat15:53
coderusfrom15:53
the_mgtI do not want to hear any excuse. and "qt limitations" is a sorry excuse15:53
phlixicoderus: i understand that is more than 2 hours of work, but i do not undersand, that it is not done in two years15:53
Stskeepsisn't the copy-paste issue excusively web browser to rest of stack atm?15:54
phlixilast time i tried in email, i wasnt able to copy15:54
ggabrieli can def copy/paste to and from browser with notes15:54
the_mgteven if qt is limitated, it can write to a file, I suppose. I do not see the hardship of heaving /tmp/copypaste.file and applying some read write opperations on that15:55
the_mgt(hm, should contentrate more, too many typos)15:55
ggabrielthe_mgt: your solution sounds ugly15:55
Elleocoderus: there's copy paste in Ubuntu Touch (although not perfectly supported in webapps at the moment)15:55
the_mgtggabriel: what if it works?15:55
phlixithanks the_mgt15:56
ggabrielthe_mgt: I can break it theoretically, so it doesn't work15:56
the_mgtI do not want version control or a stack of umpteen different temporal states, I want one temporary memory. that's all15:56
ggabrielrace conditions come to mind15:56
ggabrielanyway15:56
coderusElleo: implemented in ubuntu touch windows manager, right?15:56
the_mgtggabriel: what can't be broken in theory?15:56
Raimthe_mgt: uhm, accessing the clipboard works, the problem is text selection, isn't it?15:57
phlixiRaim: i guess thats the case15:57
ggabrielRaim: I think that's the main issue15:57
Stskeepsah.. email is a web view too15:57
ggabrieland some edge cases e.g., terminal copy cna't paste on browser or something like that15:57
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locusfjust forward15:57
the_mgtyeah, text selections sucks at times, too. but that is os-agnostic when it comes to mobile devices15:58
phlixiStskeeps: true (and i stopped to care about thet...)15:58
locusfand copy from plain text15:58
Raimggabriel: yes, at least you can paste into fingerterm which was fixed with some update15:58
ggabrieli think i copy from trem, paste on notes and then the world is my oyster15:58
ggabrieland i do what locusf suggests for email unless it's a silly base64 encoded email, which doesn't deserve to be copied15:58
ggabrielthe last time i tried to copy from an email on android, it crashed :P15:59
Elleocoderus: well Mir/Unity8 control the copy paste buffer, and the SDK has various convenience stuff for putting things in the buffer from QML (which I'd assume goes via Qt's clipboard stuff with a Mir backend, but I'm not sure of that)15:59
pastupid question: how do i update a jolla phone?16:06
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pai cant find anything in the settings16:06
phlixipa: go to settings app16:06
pamaybe older versions couldnt be updated OTA?16:06
Teguthey can16:06
paok, then im blind16:07
Bysmyyrit is the in about page16:07
Tegugo to "Device information" or watever16:07
paim in the about page16:07
Bysmyyrthat^16:07
pabut i cant find any update16:07
Teguthen use the top pulleyu16:07
ggabrielpa: which version are you running now?16:07
phlixithe newer versions have a top level entry for the update in older versions it is in about or similar16:07
paah yes i had to pull the menu16:07
pain the awesome interface :)16:07
phlixi:D16:07
Bysmyyryou will get used to it16:08
paone wonders, coming from N9, how things could have gone so wrong xD16:08
pakidding16:08
ggabrieli find pulley menus awesome16:08
ggabrielthey changed the update bit anyway16:09
ggabrielbecause it was rather hiddne16:09
ggabrielnot that you necessarily have to check for updates anyway16:09
payou don't say xD16:09
ggabrielI admit to check for updates when I was too impatient to wait for the phone to do it on its own16:09
pabtw does jolla qt have qtmobility?16:09
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paor maybe the unofficial qtcontacts module?16:12
pai was considering to port my contact app16:12
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r0kk3rzping Stskeeps17:54
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: pong17:54
r0kk3rzreminder to upload the latest sources to releases.sailfishos.org :P17:54
Stskeepsr0kk3rz: somebody else is on that now, but he's aware17:54
r0kk3rzoh ok, this someone else on irc?17:55
Stskeepsmm, not sure17:55
r0kk3rzthanks anyway17:55
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r0kk3rzalso, flashing a bad boot.img wont break fastboot will it? so you can flash the old one back17:56
r0kk3rzto jolla phone17:56
Stskeepsno, it won't17:56
r0kk3rzthought so17:56
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djselbeckZwin218:22
djselbeckman, sorry18:22
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r0kk3rzdoes fastboot mode still work on the jolla phone? or is it recommended we do everything though recovery mode now18:36
Stskeepssure does18:37
Stskeepsbut, might need bootloader unlocking18:37
r0kk3rzdid that18:38
r0kk3rzgot it to say 'fastboot mode'18:38
r0kk3rzbut fastboot on my computer isnt saying much18:38
Stskeepsmight need a -i or -d18:39
Stskeepslsusb18:39
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phdeswerMight need to add 0x2931 to ~/.adb/android_usb if 'fastboot devices' does not show anything18:41
r0kk3rzits there in lsusb18:41
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r0kk3rzphdeswer, to phone or pc?18:43
phdeswerr0kk3rz: pc ofc18:43
phdeswerAnd fastboot devices is empty right?18:44
r0kk3rzshould that file already exist?18:44
r0kk3rzyes is empty18:44
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phdeswerr0kk3rz: nope often you have to add the file18:50
r0kk3rzcool18:52
phdeswerr0kk3rz: just checked remembered wrong. File is ~/.android/adb_usb.ini18:53
phdeswermixed up adb/android order18:53
r0kk3rzthat might help18:53
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r0kk3rzphdeswer, still nothing18:59
phdeswerHave you tried running sudo fastboot?19:01
phdeswerAnd --kill-server first19:01
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PaulePanterHi. Anybody else having problems with text messages with Sailfish OS 2.0.0.10?20:24
PaulePanterI sent a text message to several people, and now every SMS I get from them is put into that thread.20:25
PaulePanterThat’s really annoying, as sometimes I don’t know from whom that SMS is.20:25
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cb400fhm, maybe these guys are responding to everyone in the same conversation? ... maybe you could delete that conversation/thread to separate things again20:31
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