#jollamobile log for Friday, 2015-12-18

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entilheard about jolla getting funding, congrats!08:41
entilso the tablets are shipping soon?08:42
Nicd-no08:44
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Nicd-they will meet after christmas to discuss tablets08:44
Nicd-but there will be more delays if they decide not to refund08:44
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urswell, in a way, the tablets *are* shipping.08:46
ursJust not to the people who ordered them, yet08:46
entilwhat does that mean urs?08:47
ursthere's a chinese website selling them: http://world.taobao.com/item/525246736574.htm08:47
entilNicd-: there will be so many people who are even more upset than currently if jolla puts the money into anything but shipping, but that shouldn't be news to anyone08:47
urswhich might be a manufacturer selling surplus08:47
ursor maybe built but undelivered devices08:47
entiloh god :D08:48
entil"jolla defaulted on their bills so we're gonna sell these off" :D08:48
ursAnyway, a contract is a contract - if jolla doesn't go bankrupt, they'll ship... eventually.08:48
entilthe problem is that indiegogo is fertile scam country, there's no contract to ship anything, but it's a dick move to not ship anything08:48
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dirkvl_wait for blog post today, it will have all the infos08:51
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entilsure, and I'm really hoping there's nothing to this, and the tablets will get shipped, but indiegogo is what it is08:52
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M-bobsummerwillpdanek - Tizen has no support for Android.    You may be thinking of ACL from OpenMobile, which is another third-party commercial "Android player" solution, like AlienDalvik, except that it is a lot shitter, from what I can determine.   Near the launch of Samsung Z1 early this year, Samsung let an ACL-"powered" WhatsUpp into the Tizen Store for just a few months, until a Tizen native app was ready.    That seemed08:59
M-bobsummerwillto be a one-off.   There was never any flood of ACL apps.   Looks like a defacto ban from Samsung.    Apparently performance and battery drain was unacceptable.   So Tizen is a wasteland for apps.08:59
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lainwir3do/09:17
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tiwakeno blog post about jolla getting monies09:31
tiwakesadface09:31
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the_mgttiwake: the rule is, they post the blog posts exactly 5 minutes after you stopped checking the site09:32
tiwakeheh09:33
Stskeepsbasically yeah09:33
tiwakeI check every once in a while09:33
dr_gogeta86goodmorning Stskeeps09:33
Stskeepsmeh, not a good morning09:33
* Mikaela follows the feed09:33
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coderusi need rss for jolla blog. anyone?09:55
coderusoh, rss is there! so no need to F5 :D09:55
Mikaela2015-12-18 11:57:42+0200 -- Notice(Euforia): (jolla [<number of headlines>]) -- Reports the titles for jolla at the RSS feed <https://blog.jolla.com/feed/>. If <number of headlines> is given, returns only that many headlines. RSS feeds are only looked up every supybot.plugins.RSS.waitPeriod seconds, which defaults to 1800 (30 minutes) since that's what most websites prefer.09:58
pp_or just trust that someone here does F5 for you09:58
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coderusi'm not hurry to read blog post before everyone10:15
coderus30 min is okay10:15
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ggabrielsledges: yeah, I can go for a quick meetup, whereabouts are you thinking?10:23
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kimmolilets test this...10:36
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kimmoliHello blogmonbot10:36
blogmonbotHello! I'll keep an eye on https://blog.jolla.com/ changes.10:36
YanielMikaela: any idea which of the rss scripts for weechat is best/recommended atm?10:37
MikaelaYaniel: no, I use bot for rss feeds10:37
Yanielokay10:38
Yanielguess I'll try weemustfeed first then because of its name :D10:38
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entilthe big question on my mind is whether or not the original jolla coders have new jobs or if they're still available10:56
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sledgesggabriel: The Cut at noon -> http://www.tasrestaurants.co.uk/our-branchs11:14
sledgessee you there! ;)11:14
ggabrieluhm... you sure that link is right?11:15
sledgesggabriel: their website is down11:19
sledgesgoogle for the cut london tas restaurant11:19
sledgesAddress: 33 The Cut, London SE1 8LF11:19
sledgesTas Restaurant Waterloo11:19
ggabrielyeah, ok, I must know it11:19
ggabrielwill be there at 12.00 :)11:20
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kimmolihmm12:30
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tbrhttps://blog.jolla.com/jolla-back-business/13:03
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Smarooooh, they finally got some good press pictures13:04
Smarand someone who knows how to write those press releases... :)13:05
entilif someone knew how to write press releases it'd have more info on the tablets than "we don't have anything on that yet"13:07
Smarthat one cleverly dodges that question in my eyes :)13:07
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Bysmyyrnothing new actually, but maybe enought good things still from yesterday13:07
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entil"the tablet hardware is only a platform for the software." reads almost as "fuck your indiegogo participation"13:09
entilanyway, hope it works out13:10
Sceltentil: noticed the same. not so through-thought words13:10
Smarentil: they’ve started to think like a company, neglecting growing possibilities of a company in order to stubbornly stick with satisfying old customers is not good strategy :P13:11
Smari.e. they need to get the tablets to everyone, not only to igg backers13:11
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ggabrieli thikn there's enough info about the tablets... it's good they'll work in a plan to deliver then13:13
ggabrielaltho antii also said that refunds may be an option, which is sad13:13
entila much better spin would be to say, lie if required, that having to change the screen in mid-development was more costly and harder to predict than the 2.0 project and that 2.0 was required for the screen and make it clear that delivering on the igg campaign is the top priority13:13
ggabrieland, harsh as it is, antii is right wrt the tablet hw is just a platform... igg campaign did say that we were also getting sfos 2.013:13
ggabrieli'd rather the truth than a lie13:13
entiligg also says nothing is a purchase13:13
ggabrielit is accurate that hw is not the issue here13:13
Smarigg is also essentially a donation13:14
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ggabrieltrue, a donation towards tablet+sfos 2.013:14
ggabrielif anybody thought that the sw part was the easiest part, then they just don't know how this works13:14
entilthe brutal truth is "you backed through igg, deal with it" but sometimes a more political approach is warranted13:14
ggabrielwhich is fair enough13:14
Smarentil: they never said they won’t make the tablets, did they?13:14
fennekkiI'm mostly annoyed by people who went "well you could've made the OS and shipped the tablet later!!!!" because they kinda feel like the same people who would've complained at getting an useless, half-baked port of the OS for their tablets13:15
entilthey implied they would make the tablets and that's why people are upset, but there's nothing about igg that guarantees anything13:15
fennekkierr13:15
fennekkicorrection: shipped the tablet and made the OS later13:15
fennekkiwhat the hell did I just type13:15
ggabrielfennekki: well, those people need a car analogy13:16
entilat least there's a blog post, now we wait tight13:16
ggabrielgive me the car, i'll be able to start it later13:16
ggabrielwtf13:16
fennekkiyeah pretty much13:16
entilfennekki: really? like probably thousands of people expecting something tangible and hearing that there's an update for a phone that's not even for sale in the united states instead13:16
fennekkientil: I'm saying they wouldn't have been happy even with the opposite outcome of "well, we have our tablets but they'13:17
fennekkire hardly usable"13:17
anYcblog update \o/13:17
fennekkiwhich is an equally *valid* thing to be angry about13:17
entilI disagree, but whatever13:17
entilI get where you're coming from but the software update is worthless to people who can't use it13:18
fennekkiAnd undoubtedly some of them would've also complained that the OS should actually have been made to work before shipping the tablets13:18
ggabrielI don't know what the deets are about the finance round, but I do think that the priority now should be getting resources (ie people) back13:18
ggabrielelse you'll do less than half of what you used to do13:18
entilyeah, that's a major concern either way13:18
entilbut imo shipping the tablets should be even more important, or give very clear rules on how to refund and then ship to the people who don't want a refund, because sailfish is completely usable as it is13:19
entilthis is all worthless either way, there are powers that be at jolla who make the decisions no matter how people powered they are13:19
ggabrielnah, it isn't more important13:19
ggabrielwhoever invested is not interested in the tablets13:19
fennekkiIDK maybe the "software development" part of the cost rundown should've said "paying our employees" and that would've been clearer13:19
ggabrielit's important to me, but not for the board i'm afraid13:19
fennekkior, not, as it stands :V13:19
lainwir3dnice blog post13:20
ggabrielfennekki: isn't that obvious though?13:20
fennekkibut like, the usability of Sailfish would've probably been an issue re stuff they need on the x86 tablet as opposed to the ARM phone13:20
entilyeah, my opinion is not the opinion of the powers that be, but the powers that be need to take opinions into consideration lest they risk a boycott or something similar13:20
fennekkiggabriel: probably not!13:20
ggabrielentil: boycott? really?13:20
entilwell, if they had products to sell ":D"13:21
entil:P13:21
ggabrielbut they don't clearly13:21
ggabrieland their partner in .cn f*cked them up too13:21
entilI just hope they avoid getting bad karma for this13:21
ggabrielwhich was half expected ofc13:21
ggabrielwell, there will be options13:21
ggabrielhopefully not a refund one13:21
ggabrielas a refund will be a partial refund, and I'll end up with no toy ;)13:22
entiland I don't know, if the link from before was the partner selling igg-backed tablets it might be them fucking up jolla, but if the contract said that they get to keep the tablets if they're not paid by a due date it's a question of contract law and probably nothing dishonest13:22
entilor more dishonest13:22
entilbut we don't have the facts13:22
entil(or I don't know if we do, I don't :P)13:22
Smarwell, one of problems there was with the tablet that they constantly promised hard date and then pushed it back13:23
lainwir3dwait, didn't everyone get their tablets already ?13:24
Smar:P13:24
* lainwir3d loves repetition jokes13:24
lainwir3dthat being said, I guess pretty angry comments are incoming in the blog post, even though that's pretty much good news.13:25
ggabrielI was glad to scroll half way through the lats time and only started seeing the comments there13:25
ggabrieland I find it funny that some people thought that all this was because of jolla's communication strategy13:26
entilyeah, but it's like the worst possible phrasing for good news ever13:26
lainwir3d:-)13:26
ggabrielrather than just funding13:26
ggabrielafter reading a tjc of a guy whose couldn't deal with his nervous state because of a tablet, i believe in anything13:26
ggabrielwho couldn't*13:26
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lainwir3d:D13:28
ggabrieloh, light comments about "let me install sfos in [any device]" are quite funny too13:29
locusfyeah sure, the tablet doesn't need optimization from the os, sure ...13:29
locusfsfos 1.x was portrait-only13:29
locusfhow would you have liked your tablet like that?13:30
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lainwir3dand apparently, it was portrait that didn't even scale properly to big screens13:33
lainwir3dso I'd have been weird looking portrait13:33
lainwir3d(maybe)13:33
locusfyes13:34
locusfie. disaster13:34
fennekki1.x was also made primarily for ARM13:34
locusfnot true13:34
fennekkithere was an x86 port but I dunno how much it liked real hardware13:34
locusfemulator is always x8613:35
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fennekkiI am aware13:35
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fennekkibut it's an emulator13:35
locusfmer has toolchains for x8613:35
locusfwith latest jolla packages13:35
locusfporting was not impossible13:35
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fennekkimmm13:36
locusfI've got p3110, which has forced landscape framebuffer13:36
locusf1.x was pretty much unusable on it13:37
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plfiorinithe tablet had a lot of emphasis (the first crowdfunded tablet), of course it needs an OS. now we have the OS and no tablet, some people are pissed off for this reason.13:53
plfiorinisaying that the tablet doesn't matter is wrong13:53
plfiorinithey both matter, without a tablet it seems a half failed project to me as a bakcer13:54
andybransonthe OS is more important than the tablet though, no?13:54
locusfforking sfos for tablet and phone would have been pretty much insane13:54
plfiorinithen it should have been a crowdfunding campaign for sfos213:54
Stskeepspersonally i think those who wants it, should get a refund, at this point13:55
plfioriniit was clearily a compain to bring sfos to the tablet and deliver a new device13:55
plfiorinifair enough13:55
Stskeeps(and don't use that i have that opinion against jolla)13:55
andybransonagree, quite a few people are still keen on waiting to see, but there's no sense letting the others get more and more angry13:56
locusfsure13:56
locusfthe amount of butthurt is palpable13:56
locusfsince people thought it was a webshop13:56
Stskeepsand any next crowdfunding projects should be done with an ethereum smart contract13:57
Stskeeps:P13:57
andybransonofc there's also the people who actually did order it from the webshop13:57
Stskeepssure13:57
Stskeepsand that's a different situation, legally viable for a refund13:57
andybransonyep13:57
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andybransonany news of the sailors overboard, or is it too early?13:58
Stskeepsdunno13:59
Stskeepsthis hasn't been a nice situation for anybody13:59
andybransoni wonder if they'll be continuing a bit smaller than before, now that getting into a self-sustaining state is a lot more urgent than before13:59
andybransoni can't imagine. makes me cross to see people complaining about their tablets when people haven't been paid and are losing their jobs14:00
andybransonare there many who won't want to go back?14:00
Stskeepsyou'd have to ask those who has left14:00
andybransonsure14:00
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Stskeepsi'll continue as a consultant personally, hoping for some work with jolla as well14:00
Stskeepsbut that's not because of the situation that was14:00
andybransongood to hear14:00
andybransoni hope they blow a little whistle when you come aboard :)14:01
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SiddeWe didn't have such happy months when Ericsson started to kill us off. Peoples coffee breaks got longer and longer. Eventually the entire office got relocated to another continent and everybody stopped working. Then Ericsson wanted to have a few people back14:02
Siddevery very very few even bothered to come back14:02
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SiddeI can imagine what's going on in peoples heads14:03
andybransoncybette seemed very positive about wanting to continue sailing when she left. and that post on tjc from the dev was really touching.14:04
andybransoni get the feeling that there wasn't a lot of animosity as yet14:04
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andybransoni hope not anyway, because sailfish rocks!14:04
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Stskeepsnot to mention that we've had 3 years of fast-paced startu plife14:05
Stskeeps:P14:05
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pdanekHow many people already left Jolla?14:08
tbrJolla Ltd. closes its C investment round and secures new financing to the company - https://cdn.jolla.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/ENG_Jolla_Investment_press_release_Dec2015_FINAL2_63.pdf14:08
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coderusblogpost is..nothing. in short: "we're still alive, but no details. please come back later"14:16
andybransoni think there are important hints that jolla won't just revert back to what it was before14:17
ggabrielcoderus: didn't you also read "this funding is mostly for sfos dev and licenses, don't expect much on the tablet side"?14:17
coderusggabriel: so what?14:18
andybransonyep. i wondered if that was a condition of the investment even14:18
ggabrielnothing :)14:18
Stskeepsthat investors want sailfishos to be the primary activity, not hardware, kinda makes sense14:18
coderusthat investors :D14:19
ggabrielandybranson: as an investor you don't want to invest on a company that will have bad publicity, so I _guess_ that jolla is pressed to fix the tablet issue14:19
andybransonit has to be self-sustaining14:19
coderusdont care about stuck tablets and upset customers, for sure14:19
ggabrieljust not a priority14:19
tbrwell hardware business was declared dead before the first tablet shipped and jolla has been always emphasizing their software business and hw just as showcase14:19
andybransonggabriel: yep and i think offering refunds will manage that just fine14:19
Stskeepscoderus: i'm fairly sure that having a pissed off user community doesn't help anybody14:19
ggabrielandybranson: I suspect refunds will be partial, mind14:20
MoritzJTWell it would certainly help the competition :D14:20
coderusStskeeps: just curious if any of investors are care of customers :D14:20
ggabriellol, I think the community this far is mostly pissed off anyway14:20
ggabrielinvestors care about their money making more money14:20
andybransona lot of people aren't pissed off.  they're just quiet14:20
ggabrielthey're waiting...14:20
andybransoni know three people who are waiting for tablets, but sympathise with jolla and have pretty much written the money off14:21
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coderusso, new year gift is refund?14:21
ggabrielandybranson: add me to your list :P14:21
andybransoni'm not even sure they'd take a refund if offered14:21
andybranson:)14:21
ggabrieli prefer the tablet, it'd be nice14:21
ggabrielwell, i could avoid taking my laptop on certain situations, which would be quite nice14:22
andybransoni hope they get out, because it's lovely and deserves to have enough people hacking around with it14:22
ggabrielotherwise i don't really care14:22
MoeLovely products don't make a business case .. ask the fine people at Palm14:22
andybransonright now it'll get forgotten. no-one will build for it if there's only a couple of hundred out there14:22
andybransonsure - i wouldn't argue for it to be prioritized from a business point of view now14:23
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andybransondepends on the difference in cost between manufacturing a tablet and refunding one...14:23
MoritzJTWell if we can be sure that there's not much development going into the tablet side of SFOS (along with Alien Dalvik) then I guess I could live with a refund better than with the product...14:24
Moeandybranson: Then it'll probably suffer the same fate as the HP Touchpad14:25
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MoeRight now, anything but a refund would be laughable .. the new investors obviously do not have faith in continuing Jolla's current tablet product line. Otherwise it would've been mentioned in the blog post/announcement.14:26
MoritzJTI wonder what happens to all the other stuff e.g. the lastu casings when you apply for a tablet refund... I do not think that can be refund too? Then I'd rather wait for the tablet14:27
Stskeepsooi, would there be any interest in sailfishos w/ alien dalvik and such for other arm tablets?14:28
Stskeeps.. and if so, what would you pay for it14:28
MoritzJTwell depends, would those SFOS ports support only basic hardware?14:28
plfioriniat this point refund is good, you can buy another device with that money and run sfos2 or something else on it14:28
pp_MoritzJT: lastu didn't get their money, but shipped the cases14:29
StskeepsMoritzJT: well, nexus 5 is pretty good these days, as an example14:29
pp_so it will be a mess14:29
MoritzJTor also stuff like the samsung note 214:29
MoritzJTwith the cool multitouch and stylus input14:29
MoritzJTbecause then productivity would make sense. but the interfacing with android apps that support it and alien dalvik will never work14:29
MoritzJTbecause myriad will not put any effort into it14:30
MoritzJTI don't think I can give a good answer to you stskeeps. a student with limited funds can't give you a good sample :D14:30
Stskeepsjust curious14:30
MoritzJTif I was working already I might tell you what I'd pay14:30
coderusStskeeps: if full hw acceleration i'd pay $10014:31
MoritzJTI think it's worth more than $100 but I would not be able to pay more... make a student offer :D14:32
andybransoni think people would pay for it on their phones as well14:32
pp_"Multitask! Get two tablets!" is a real competitor14:32
MoritzJTwhen we really can use it to go off the grid security and privacy wise14:32
MoritzJTthen yes.14:32
andybransonputting sailfish on an old phone with dalvik would give it a good speedup14:32
MoritzJTif the baseband stuff remains closed and we're not actually in possession of the HW I wouldn't even install SFOS to it14:32
pp_I'd say more like 40-50e14:33
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coderusis there jolla tablet with sailfishos removed from taobao?14:43
pp_still available! http://world.taobao.com/item/525246736574.htm14:44
cybetteandybranson: i'd go back in a heartbeat for the people I work(ed) with and for sailfish os. however there are other factors involved as well.14:47
coderuspp_: this one with android not sfos14:47
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andybransoncybette: thanks for the info. i hope it all comes out good.15:00
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cybetteandybranson: thanks, me too :)15:02
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pdanekTechcrunch says that company may only be able to bring back cca half of the 100 employees.15:49
pdanekSo Sailfish development will be pushed by several months now by having to hire teams again and get them know the product?15:50
Stskeepsthese kind of death valleys aren't easy15:50
lainwir3dWell, I might be looking for another job :P15:52
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pdanekStskeeps: finances don't mean anything if you don't have people15:53
Stskeepssure, but if you don't have money, you don't have people either15:54
pdanekStartups are usually strong people-wise and finances is only to keep them fed.15:54
pdanekSo now Jolla has money, but lacking on people.15:54
pdanekSo I would be skeptical thinking that all is good now with financing, that company is saved.15:54
pdanekIt will be clear after a year or so if company is really saved.15:55
Stskeepsjust like it was dead last week :P15:55
Stskeepsi love the people i've worked with, but i have to be honest, there's a lot of talents out there in the world, for a scaling company, if there's jobs to be had.15:55
pdanekIf Jolla can't restore the development speed, they will be lacking more and more behind competition, right?15:55
pdanekright15:55
pdanekStskeeps: so you think Jolla is still great opportunity to be in scaling company?15:56
Stskeepsthink so15:56
pdanekand to become part of something big in the future?15:56
pdanekright15:56
Stskeepsi have my own opinions where mobile should go, but for the current state of the market, it has good possibilities, if it's not in survival mode15:57
pdanekStskeeps: can you share your opinions? or only in form of paid consultancy? :D15:57
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Stskeepsyou'll see eventually15:57
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pdanekStskeeps: nooooooooooooooooo, I need to know now16:00
pdanek:D16:00
pdanekStskeeps: Btw, do you think Google and Apple will remain leaders and even strengthen their positions, or their share will start to shrink slowly over next years?16:01
Stskeepsbeing a duopoly or monopoly is not good for innovation16:02
Stskeepseven google couldn't get google+ popular :)16:02
phlixi_opdanek: jolla is "lacking behind" others for years already, it dosnt matter if they lack behind 5 years, or 5.5 years...16:03
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Stskeepsyou people should read the book 'the circle'16:04
Stskeeps:P16:04
ggabrieli think it's the other way around, phlixi_o16:05
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ggabrielare electric cards lagging behind because nobody uses them? or is it the other way around?16:05
yestoallApple/Google arent leading, they have mir userland blingbling but the overall concept of big brothering their users is flawed16:06
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phlixi_oi can not see a relation of e car usage and the fact that ios/android is orders of magnitude ahead of sailfish16:09
yestoalldefine ahead in what way :-)16:13
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ggabrielphlixi_o: but what is your definition of being ahead? sfos does a lot of things that android/ios can only do in their wet dreams16:14
yestoalldoes ios run on a Fairphone?16:15
ggabrielif being ahead is userbase or having whatsapp, well.... back to car analogy16:15
ggabrielios runs only on bending devices16:15
phlixi_obla bla16:15
yestoalldoes ios leave my music library alone?16:15
phlixi_oios and android are mature systems16:15
ggabrielphlixi_o: sorry, but I disagree16:15
ggabrielan os that can't do multitasking in 2015 is not mature16:16
ggabrielso there you go16:16
phlixi_osailfish os lacks basic features16:16
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ggabrielso do android and ios16:16
ggabrielpeople put up with the gap, that's all16:16
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pdanekhmmmm16:17
phlixi_oios and android both have advanced methods of doing multitasking. its just that you have to care about as developer. and for a good reason. for battery life.16:17
phlixi_oits is a design desicion, not a lack of maturuty16:17
pdanekphlixi: I agree!16:17
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pdanekTMavica: you're alive!16:18
pdanek:D16:18
TMavica_lol.16:18
TMavica_i use irccloud before so it keeps online16:19
pdanekTMavica: :D16:19
TMavica_seem i disconnected that i dont know16:19
pdanekHave you seen my email please?16:19
ggabrielphlixi_o: pfff "advanced multitasking" when you can't leave a for loop running in a terminal on its own16:19
TMavica_saw. arrange later again..sorry16:20
pdaneknp, just to know you got it16:20
pdanekthanks16:20
TMavica_i disconnect soon, I need fly16:21
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pdanekfly high16:21
phlixi_oggabriel a terminal? are you kidding me?16:23
ggabrielphlixi_o: no, i'm not. oh, that reminds me: an os that hasn't got a terminal is behind, well, windows 9516:23
ggabrielfor reference, ios came with a terminal in 1.0, then they removed it16:24
ggabrielwhat is worth pointing out is that your appreciation of being ahead or behind is highly subjective16:24
ggabrielso is mine, of course16:24
phlixi_onope16:24
phlixi_othen i wouldnt use sailfish16:25
phlixi_oi am not sure if you are trolling me16:25
phlixi_obecause you already said ios had it not 5 , buit 9 years ago16:25
phlixi_oios had terminal 200716:25
phlixi_owow16:26
phlixi_owhere is sailfish ahead now?16:26
phlixi_oggabriel: please wakre up16:26
phlixi_oios and android is way more mature16:26
phlixi_ostop lying to your self16:26
ggabrielios does _not_ have a terminal today16:27
ggabrielandroid never had [out of the box]16:27
phlixi_oso does sailfish16:27
ggabrielnope, sfos does16:27
ggabrielout of the box16:27
phlixi_oyou have to activate developer mode,16:27
ggabrielyes16:27
ggabrielwhere is the equivalent for ios/android?16:27
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ggabrielwithout rooting/losing warranty/etc?16:27
phlixi_oyou are blind16:28
ggabrieli'm not trolling - i'm demonstrating that to me other things are important16:28
phlixi_oor a troll16:28
ggabrielno, I can see well16:28
ggabrielright16:28
ggabrielI asked you how you define "being ahead" and you provided nothing - I've given at least 2 examples16:28
coderusterminal emulator on android is easy, you dont need any root16:28
phlixi_oi was talking about MATURITY. you are talking about that your preffered featiured represents maturity, thats bullshit16:28
ggabrieland I mentioned many times things like ootb xmpp, centralised acct mgmt and so on16:28
ninnnucoderus: But you can't do much with it. Without rooting you'll just get "lol, filthy consumer" if you try to "ls /etc"16:29
ggabrielcoderus: maybe I need to play more, but do I get root and such? access to android fs? or just a sandbox16:29
ggabrielphlixi_o: ok, semantics, define maturity16:30
ninnnuwhich was where I decided to not buy Android16:30
ggabrielphlixi_o: where is xmpp ootb in both ios and android?16:30
coderusggabriel: sandbox of course :)16:30
coderusbut most phones have root adb terminal!16:30
kimmoliTMavica: you are alive still16:30
phlixi_osailfish is lacking basic features on all ends. if yoiu dusagree, go to tjc, sort for votes, and for every single item ask yoursef if this is a problem on abndroid(ios16:30
ggabrielphlixi_o: ok, so you first tell me that I am talking about features and not maturity; now you are talking about features and fail to define maturity16:31
ggabrielso I don't know who is trolling :)16:31
phlixi_oi am not wasting any more time ...16:32
* kimmoli just got mi popcorn16:32
pdanekggabriel: if you write terminal app which can run in the background on android, it will16:33
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ggabrielpdanek: there's an interesting post about that in tmo :) you have to do a number of things that, well, are overkill16:33
pdanekand if it's just app or part of OS, who cares? everything being preinstalled part of OS can be considered as bloatware by some16:33
pdanekso Terminal can be bloatware for some16:33
pdanekhm16:34
ggabrielarguably terminal isn't preinstalled16:34
kimmoliactually it's not preinstalled16:34
ggabrielyou have to switch on dev mode and you get terminal+root16:34
ggabrielkimmoli: don't type in tohkbc while eating popcorn :P16:35
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attahStskeeps: re: willingness to pay, SFOS+Aliendalvik incl. working gmscore €100/phone lifetime, or €50 per year easily17:05
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baumgz on the recovery :)17:09
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baumkinda wondering: newly ordered tablets won't ship before christmas right?17:12
phlixi_olol17:13
baumjust noticed your state on the kickstarter tablets....that kinda answered my question17:14
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phlixi_oif there are tablets at all, then not this year17:14
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phlixi_o(expect those few that laread ygot one, dont know, in october?)17:15
baumi see, too bad17:15
phlixi_o...already got one...17:15
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