Thursday, 2020-11-12

piggz8am is blooming early!07:59
ApBBBearly bird gets the worm and all that :P07:59
sledges#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 202008:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Nov 12 08:00:06 2020 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"08:00
Thaodanpiggz: Whats is 8am is for others even later :P08:00
piggzThaodan: there is one true time zone, and its gmt :D08:01
sledges#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:08:01
sledgesI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please behave and re5tecpa timing.08:01
sledges#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info08:02
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"08:02
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva - privateer for Jolla08:02
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar - sailor @ Jolla08:02
piggz#info piggz Community porter/dev08:02
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - sailor @ jolla08:02
thigg[m]#info thigg - community08:02
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - sailor @ Jolla08:02
karry_#info Lukas Karas - community, developer08:03
chriadam#info Chris Adams - developer @ Jolla08:03
Nico[m]#info Nico - community, developer08:03
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community08:03
sailr#info sailr - community08:03
gmc#info gmc - community08:04
gmc(i'm currently in a telco but paying attention here)08:04
flypigDon't get confused about which is which ;)08:05
abranson#info abranson - sailor08:05
Nico[m]Talks info into phone08:05
Thaodanflypig: There is only one that flies! :D08:06
thigg[m]how do you pronounce #?08:06
sledges#topic QtMultimedia/gstreamer unable to play back from most HTTPS sources (5 min -- asked by ahappyhuman)08:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "QtMultimedia/gstreamer unable to play back from most HTTPS sources (5 min -- asked by ahappyhuman) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"08:06
sledges#info <ahappyhuman> while gstreamer seems to be pretty up to date, it uses a outdated libsoup and gnutls for doing network requests, as I’ve found out and written in this post:08:06
piggzpound is £08:06
sledges#info <ahappyhuman> This seems to be the reason why virtually any playback from a https source fails. Are there any plans to solve this issue by updating libsoup and/or libgnutls or switching to e.g. curlhttpsrc (even though it’s a "bad" plugin)?08:06
sledges#info <Jolla> We are moving from gnutls to openssl where possible to unify our stack:08:07
sledges#info <Jolla> Similarly previously we moved from nss to openssl where it was possible, e.g.,08:08
ApBBBis the move complete???08:09
ApBBBor is there an estimate for completion?08:09
Nico[m]And do we get it in the next release together with openssl 1.1? :D08:09
sledgeswe have the next release candidate available to our cbeta group, already where QtMultimedia/libsoup no longer uses libgnutls08:10
ThaodanNico[m]: Yes the next release will contain OpenSSL 1.1.x.08:10
Nico[m]Perfect, then I can finally update my lib, super awesome!08:11
sledgesremember: we give no schedules when EA or public release will be ;) so if you want to test it already now, apply within to join cbeta, simples:)08:13
Nico[m]I didn't know, I could do that, where do I sign up? :D08:13
sledgesNico[m]: you can PM me08:14
gmcwhat is cbeta?08:14
Nico[m]Will do so later, thanks :308:14
piggz*sledges gets flood of PMs08:15
Nico[m]Well, I would suggest not signing up to cbeta, if you are not willing to reflash your phone or lose data. It's probably more risky than EA08:15
chriadamcbeta is a closed-beta group which provides "super early access" to likely-unstable pre-release software versions.08:15
ViGeI'm wondering if sleges broke the first rule of cbeta: you don't talk about cbeta... ;)08:15
flypiggmc, there seems to be a page about cbeta here:
Nico[m]Which also a lot of people use and then are annoyed by the upgrades08:16
sledgesViGe: you don't talk of what happens in cbeta;)08:16
chriadamyou will have to reflash from time to time.  you will lose data from time to time.08:16
ahappyhumanSoorry for being late, but nice!08:16
ApBBBViGe is there also a pagan ceremony in some deep forest in Finland to get into the cbeta group???? Thats what i heard :P08:16
piggzViGe: i wanted to make same joke, but then id break the rule! :D08:16
flypigApBBB :D08:17
ahappyhuman#info Chris - community, developer08:17
ViGeApBBB: You need to join in order to find out!08:17
Nico[m]Are there cbeta sdks btw?08:17
Nico[m]Or at least targets08:17
sledgesgroup consists of dedicated fans, testing and giving the earliest feedback08:18
dcalisteNot that I know off, and it makes life a bit difficult sometimes.08:18
dcalisteWell, life, I mean things related to the phone development...08:18
sledgestime to move it, move it08:19
sledges#topic Status of PGP stuff in the email (10 min -- ApBBB)08:19
*** sailbot changes topic to "Status of PGP stuff in the email (10 min -- ApBBB) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"08:19
Nico[m]Yeah, I would love to have OpenSSL 1.1 available to develop my next release as early as possible :308:19
sledgesand to inform other app devs that something breaks, early on08:19
sledges#info <ApBBB> This is a feature that was implemented (by Damien Caliste) long time ago, made it in the repos yet it is not available for the end user. There was supposed to be a blog post on how to use it but that never came.08:19
sledges#info <ApBBB> So what is the status and if its planned to be available anytime soon?08:19
ApBBBthe question is clear i dont have anything to add08:19
ApBBBoh yeah by not available i mean easily available08:20
ApBBBnot easily available08:20
sledges#info <Jolla> we are looking alternative pgp solution that potentially could be used, one is sequioa08:21
sledges#info <Jolla> but that is written in rust which we do not have maturized yet with Sailfish OS.08:21
sledges#info <Jolla> If there are other opensource PGP stacks feel free to point to those directions.08:21
sledgescould dcaliste perhaps chip in with his thoughts too on way forward ^ ?08:22
chriadamthis is the first I've heard of this.08:22
dcalisteWell, besides the licence what is the issue with GnuPG implementation ? It's widely used on desktop.08:22
Nico[m]Gpg has a horrible API, iirc08:23
dcalisteIt's doing PGP and S/MIME, signing and encripting.08:23
dcalistegpgme is not that bad.08:23
riniguswould be great to know why the implemented code is not used08:23
ThaodanI think its hard it replace without rewriting anything that uses GPGME.08:23
chriadamRegarding the blog post, Jaymzz had the blog post ready to go, but it was decided at management level not to post it - not 100% sure of the reasons.  Jaymzz was going to post it on the forum, but not sure if that happened or not.  It would have included instructions on how to use it, but it's definitely not for the average user, I would say, as it requires manually installing some extra packages.08:24
chriadamalso, as it depends on some potentially-unstable software (sailfish-secrets) it cannot be considered fully supported by us at this point, I guess.08:24
Nico[m]It would be nice to have the guide available to the more tech savvy and test happy of us! (I already am trying to use secrets in my app)08:25
gmcI am using secrets in the nextcloud notes app :)08:25
Nico[m]I think storeman uses it too already :D08:26
dcalisteFor the tech-savvy :
piggzis that the SQLcyper popul that appears?08:26
Nico[m]piggz: yep08:26
Nico[m]Thank you, dcaliste!08:27
dcalisteNico[m], it's about using the signature code in the email app. Not about how to use SailfishSecret API. Just to be clear ;)08:27
sledges#info <Jolla> short howtos by dcaliste for the tech-savvy:08:28
flypigIt'd be good to have that post in its own thread, to give it a bit more visibility.08:28
Nico[m]dcaliste: Yeah, I thought as much. The secrets API is not bad and there are a lot of projects to look at for examples :308:29
ApBBBwe need a how to section in the forums for stuff like that. Even if it potentially creates issues for the less tech savvy :/08:29
sledgesin wiki then?08:29
Nico[m]We need a section for development how tos anyway08:30
ApBBBBTW peterleichen in the forum asked if this also supports encryption08:31
sledgestrue, wiki is not publicly open for editing08:31
gmcI do find the secrets api to be a bit low-level/verbose though, and ended up writing a wrapper for it .. the request/response paradigm is leaking to the higher levels.. but that's a different subject08:31
sledges#info <peterleinchen> And as right now this 'only' supports signatures (and working very nicely, thanks @dcaliste), I would like know if/when encryption (MIME or Inline?) will also be part of this?08:31
Nico[m]gmc, I totally agree. I think someone was asking for a review of the API?08:31
dcalisteApBBB, yes encryption is not implemented.08:31
ApBBBok :)08:32
sledges#info <dcaliste> ApBBB, yes encryption is not implemented.08:32
dcalisteI started to work on it at that time, but waited for the signature be finished and ready for end users for feedback on approach.08:32
chriadamnot a review of the API (which I think is fine, as is).  but the implementation needs review, especially the bookkeeping stuff in the daemon.  i.e. the crypto stuff.08:32
chriadamsailfish-secrets, I am referring to ^08:32
dcalisteSo work is still pending for condition to be completed ;)08:32
Nico[m]chriadam: I see, I can only comment on the API :308:33
dcalisteAn other potential issue for encryption is not the implentation but the UI integration : I need an easyway to associate GnuPG keys with contacts, so public key of recipient can be used to encrypt.08:33
ApBBBi suspect this has to be handled in the contact app08:34
Thaodandcaliste: yes that would be great and I think that is something that KDE-PIM is working on.08:34
ApBBBa keys section or something08:34
dcalisteIf I can find time beside calendar work at the moment, I can restart working on the low level implementation for encryption.08:34
sledgesgmc: no update on secrets audit?:)08:34
ThaodanAlso there is
gmcsledges: i sent out some feelers, but nothing concrete yet08:35
sledgesok cool, fingers crosscompiled:)08:35
dcalisteBut Qt6 upgrade of QMF has to be in before all of this also for CI to work upstream.08:35
gmcit's been autumn holidays over here, many people away from their emails :)08:35
sledgestime to move on08:36
sledges#topic Headset media buttons don’t work with Android apps (5 min -- asked by sailr)08:36
*** sailbot changes topic to "Headset media buttons don’t work with Android apps (5 min -- asked by sailr) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"08:36
sledgessailr: we haven't had an opportunity to prepare an answer for you yet unfortunately, would need to move to next meeting, apologies!08:37
gmci've had something similar with native sailfish apps and linking to my car stereo.. no volume control or pause/skip controls08:38
flypigQuick question from someone who doesn't use Android media players: do the Mpris controls work with them?08:38
sailrOk, it also doesn't work for media buttons in a car when you connect your phone08:38
sledgesgmc: that would be BT issue08:38
abransonsailr: there is a workaround for that, setting up the bluez mpris-proxy to run as a background service08:40
ApBBBthere seem to be quite a few bt issues.08:40
sailrabranson: thanks for the info, will update the thread08:41
sledges#info <Jolla> we'll try to get an answer/solution during next meeting08:41
abransonflypig: mpris works for android apps, but that's separate from the volume control08:41
abransonthere's an issue where volume controls don't work when android apps are in the foreground, i think08:42
flypigThanks abranson.08:42
sledges#info <abranson> there is a workaround for that, setting up the bluez mpris-proxy to run as a background service08:42
abransonwe did test whether we could make this standard, but there were a few problems with it, especially when flight mode was used.08:43
sledges#info ^ it's hard to un-workaround that, especially when flight mode was used08:44
sledgeslet's move to the next tpc08:44
piggzsledges: propose "no data" mode keeps BT on08:44
Venemoflypig, abranson never worked for me with spotify08:45
sledgespiggz: -EPARSEERROR :)08:46
abransonhe's suggesting that flight mode shouldn't affect bluetooth anymore, as it's not necessary to turn that off for flights anymore08:47
sledgeswlan switches off with flight mode, but can be turned back on08:47
abransonflight mode should become 'no data' mode that just turns off the meatier radios08:47
abransoni.e. wlan and mobile08:47
piggzwhen an flight, i still use my bt headphones :)08:48
sledges^^ probably due to in-flight wifi ;)08:48
sailrit seems that the iphone also keeps bluetooth connections while in flight mode08:48
abransonyeah, but we're probably at the point where bt doesn't need to toggle at all08:48
flypigI thought with iPhone it was only for the Apple Watch, not everything? Maybe that changed.08:49
sledges#info <piggz> suggestion to keep BT on during flight mode (iPhone does that)08:49
abransonah yes, apple seem to agree08:49
abransonbut even then the mpris proxy still doesn't cope with BT being turned off at all, and it probably should08:49
Nico[m]Well, we still need a BT toggle, but I guess glight mode doesn't need to toggle it08:50
sledgeswe've deciated from Android App Support side a great deal already:))08:50
piggzabranson: so, thats a bug in mpris-proxy that needs fixed08:50
sledgesbut good talk!08:50
sledgesmoving on08:50
sledges#topic Choosable from/alias when sending mails (10min -- asked by sailr)08:50
*** sailbot changes topic to "Choosable from/alias when sending mails (10min -- asked by sailr) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"08:50
abransonreally it should also not be running unless it's needed, but then that needs sync between user and system services that's a pain08:50
sledges#info <sailr> Nowadays it is common to have the option to choose out of different aliases of your account when sending an email.08:50
sledges#info <sailr> Some people are missing this feature in sfos and would like to know if it can be implemented in the near future - One of several threads:08:51
sledges#info <Jolla> This isn't something that we currently have in the pipeline, but it's useful functionality and we'll look further into how this could be integrated into the UI. It would be good to have the topic moved from TJC to Sailfish OS Forum and we'd welcome your ideas about how it could work there.08:52
sailrI was using win mobile before and when answering an email the receiving alias was automatically used as sender when you replied08:53
gmcthe email app is not open source, is it?08:53
sailrOk, I'll create a new thread08:53
ApBBBnot open08:53
sledgessailr: that's a good example, please do and suggest that strategy08:54
flypigqmf is though, and it would be good to know how it would fit into that.08:54
dcalisteBut the issue is also how to handle this in the lower levels. For instance I'm not sure if QMF has an API for aliases email addresses...08:54
flypigYes, there are at least three issues here: UI, settings integration, qmf integration. The UI isn't open, but the QML is available if anyone has suggestions for how to integrate there.08:56
sledges#info additional ways to contrib: investigate the QMF framework's ability to handle aliases (if missing, implementation is just as heartly welcome)08:57
dcalisteWe can question also if we want to put this at QMF level. Maybe the right level can be in nemo-qml-plugin-email, because it's just aliases in account. I think QMF is better, but it should be well thought in advance before running to code.08:58
sledges#info <dcaliste> We can question also if we want to put this at QMF level. Maybe the right level can be in nemo-qml-plugin-email, because it's just aliases in account. I think QMF is better, but it should be well thought in advance before running to code.08:59
flypigHere's a link to nemo-qml-plugin-email in case anyone wants to dig there:
flypigAnd QMF:
sledgescertainly the challenge will be to code of developer is UI-driven. could Glacier UI be used?09:02
dcalisteThanks and this is where the header is built :
flypigDoes Glacier have the functionality?09:04
sledgeshas email app iirc, unsure about accounts integration09:04
sledgesi.e. in what state09:05
sledges#info <dcaliste> Thanks and this is where the header is built:09:05
flypigNice link dcaliste.09:05
sledgeslet's move along i reckon09:06
dcalisteI think inquiry may start there, what we would like to put in the header, how to have it from UI, and how to send it to lower level.09:06
sledges#topic General Discussion (20 min)09:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "General Discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"09:06
dcalisteThat's a suggestion of course...09:06
flypigI think there's a lot to look at there, and with a nice path, if someone wanted to.09:06
piggzyou know what would be handy .. now that networking is fixed in the sdk emulator ... if the browser worked09:07
piggzfor no other reason than id like to see the emulator browser work ;)09:07
ApBBBpiggz your keyboard mouse support. is it going to be upstreamed??09:07
Nico[m]Does the browser in the emulator have the same issues as on the PinePhone?09:07
ApBBBehh included in the os09:08
piggzNico[m]: well.....09:08
Nico[m](i.e. mesa incompatible )09:08
thigg[m]Is there already preferred solution to get rust apps working with qt?09:08
piggzApBBB: atm, its a hack to rotate the orientation ... just uses the normal qt plugins09:08
abransonyeah I think so. the browser uses an external gl context, and that doesn't seem to work in mesa09:08
piggzNico[m]: shh, im attacking htis from the directino of the emulator ... not the pinephone, now my strategy is out!09:09
Nico[m]If that could be fixed somehow, that would help in both cases, I guess :309:09
Nico[m]piggz: Oh, sorry :D09:09
abransonyep. easier said than done though :D09:09
ApBBBpiggz  rotation asside you can just enable it in SFOS???09:10
piggzApBBB: pretty much, just add some plugins to the lipstcik invironment file09:10
piggzevdevmouse and evdevkeyboard09:10
sailrIs it normal behaviour that audio volume when played via bluetooth differs from aux?09:11
sledgesjusa: ^09:12
jusasailr: yes09:12
ApBBBthis whole volume thing is quite annoying with my cars ICE09:12
* sledges needs to check that with a non-sfos device if can find one09:13
ApBBBand the fact that it doesn't show info on the screen (artist song etc)09:13
jusaespecially with a2dp, as a2dp has (by bt design) individual volume level from sailfish - best case scenario would be to have sailfish volume always maxed and attenuate from the headset/car kit/etc.. problem is, some bt devices don't have any volume control so we need to have one in sailfish as well09:13
ApBBBi have it maxed when playing songs and its still too low09:14
ApBBBand its fun when you don't connect to BT and the radio starts09:14
sledgessome ICEs differentiate those two:)09:15
jusaApBBB: I understand the pain.. I have seen that low volume as well, would need to take a look at that sometime09:15
sailryes, music volume played via aux seems a bit too low =)09:15
ApBBBsledges i have to have the colume at 20 wit BT and at 5 with radio. i usually forget it and the rasio starts at 2009:18
sledgesApBBB: means your head unit doesn't remember different vol settings for different sources09:18
sailrApBBB: doesn't it save the volume level in the car?09:19
ApBBBi only use the mastrer volume09:19
ApBBBdont think it has different settings for each09:19
sledgestime to upgrade;)09:20
ApBBBit came with the car09:20
flypigExcuse for a new car?09:20
ApBBB2020 model btw09:20
sledgesdarn, this upgrade is getting more expensive:))09:20
ApBBBit is new09:20
gmcApBBB: it's almost 2021, get with the times :)09:20
Nico[m]Yeah, don't fix it in Sailfish, just buy a new car!09:20
sledgesNico[m]: can happen with other sources too09:21
sailrJust out of curiosity.. Does sfos support contact sync in cars?09:21
ApBBBi see the contacts in the car09:21
ApBBBso probably yes09:22
Nico[m]Yes, it seems to09:22
Nico[m]Confused me the first time I saw it :D09:22
sailrnice :D09:22
sailrDoes sfos use mac address randomization for wifi? I could only find some outdated information on that topic09:23
sledgesit randomises MACs when sfos hw adaptation is wrong/early stages:) that yields an invalid MAC, so not an answer to your question:)09:25
abransonsailr: not normally, unless there's a problem with the storage or reading it from the hw09:25
abransonyes, that :)09:25
sledgesplease turn your questions into topics for the next meeting...09:26
sledges#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)09:26
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 12th November 2020)"09:26
sledgesit's crunch time, so we should have the next meeting in 4 weeks09:26
sledgesjust in time before winter holidays09:26
sledgesProposing 10th December at 8am UTC09:27
Nico[m]So Sailfish 4 in 4 weeks?09:27
flypigChristmas party meeting09:27
Nico[m]But yeah, that works for me09:27
thigg[m]ill bring cookies09:28
chriadamI will want a cookie09:28
sledgesshould be a browser setting09:28
sledges(^ elon musk tweeted that recently)09:28
Nico[m]I don't think Sailfish supports disabling cookies, so cookies for everyone!09:29
sledges#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 10th December 2020 at 8:00am UTC: 2020-12-10T08Z09:29
sledgesthanks all, and as always: no scheduled promises given ;)09:29
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Nov 12 09:30:08 2020 UTC.09:30
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Thursday 12th Nov 2020 at 08:00am UTC. Topics can be created here:"09:30
sledgeshope for the best, prepare for the worst :D09:30
Nico[m]Thank you for the meeting, everyone :309:30
flypigCheers all!09:30
chriadamthanks everyone09:30
gmcThanks for chairinf sledges !09:30
gmcchairing even09:30
sledgesNico[m]: how about that cbeta application PM? before I /quit (yes, limited time offer makes the selection more rigorous :D)09:31
sledgesgmc: chairs!:))09:31
flypigToo much!09:31
Nico[m]sledges: gimme a minute, this client can't open pms :D09:32
sledgesjust opened one meself:))09:32
sledges(first part of the incantation: PM while online:))09:33
sailrThank you!09:33
Nico[m]That works, thanks sledges. Now everyone knows I was forced into this! :309:34
sledgeslol join the sect09:34
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 10th of December 2020 at 8:00am UTC. Topics can be created here:"10:07
T42No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!14:11
T42No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!14:11
Nico[m]You should bridge it via matrix, then you have actual users :D14:11
T42No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!14:11
ThaodanNo I want to move it to a telegram channel making it truly read only14:12
T42No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!14:12
Nico[m]Ah, I see, that works as well14:12
T42No chat_id set! Add me to a Telegram group and say hi so I can find your group's chat_id!14:12

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