| sledges | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021 | 06:59 |
|---|---|---|
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Apr 22 06:59:59 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 06:59 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 06:59 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021)" | 06:59 | |
| sledges | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 07:00 |
| sledges | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-apr-2021/5818 | 07:00 |
| sledges | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and beahver. | 07:00 |
| sledges | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021)" | 07:00 | |
| ExTechOp | #info Otto Mäkelä, community | 07:00 |
| sledges | #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla | 07:00 |
| Nico[m] | #info Nico - community | 07:00 |
| lbt | #info David Greaves, Jolla sailor | 07:01 |
| rubdos[ma] | #info Ruben De Smet, community, standing in for nthn | 07:02 |
| ViGe | #info Ville Nummela, sailor@Jolla | 07:02 |
| dcaliste | #info Damien Caliste, community | 07:02 |
| Thaodan | #info Björn Bidar - sailor at Jolla | 07:03 |
| flypig | #info David Llewellyn-Jones sailor @ jolla | 07:04 |
| Thaodan | hyvää huomenta you all :) | 07:05 |
| sledges | #topic Enabling MPEG DASH in gstreamer (5 min -- asked by Mister_Magister) | 07:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Enabling MPEG DASH in gstreamer (5 min -- asked by Mister_Magister) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021)" | 07:05 | |
| Nico[m] | Hey, I still know enough finish to understand that! | 07:05 |
| sledges | #info <Mister_Magister> Previously it was said that enabling it requires costly licenses. But upon my investigation neither DASH-IF and projects it supports require any licenses to use and neither DASH LA sells dash license anymore. This topic is just to inform and motivate Jolla to talk to their law people to check if it really needs license. Otherwise DASH is going to be very useful. | 07:05 |
| sledges | #info <Jolla> There is no information about the patents being revoked, just that the pool collapsed? Pool apparently collapsed because many principal patent holders were missing. News hint there is an ongoing invalidation campaign, but until there is official news of the patents being voided we cannot prematurely enable such patented technology. | 07:06 |
| abranson | #info Andrew Branson - late sailor | 07:08 |
| ExTechOp | (the late Mr. Branson) | 07:08 |
| sledges | #info <Jolla> Out of interest, what are the concrete use cases where you are planning to use this? And what are the benefits? | 07:08 |
| Thaodan | How is the early Mr Branson? :p | 07:08 |
| abranson | I don't believe he exists | 07:09 |
| Nico[m] | DASH is used for a lot of videos nowadays, like reddit videos and youtube afaik. Those videos play only either video or sound without it, afaik. | 07:09 |
| sledges | is Mister_Magister around? | 07:10 |
| Thaodan | abranson: Maybe some good Finish coffee would help | 07:11 |
| sledges | Mr Earl(y) Grey Branson was mentioned as the substitute-knows-it-all:) | 07:12 |
| Nico[m] | I guess Mister_Magister overslept :D | 07:12 |
| Thaodan | I fear it is like with many things that you require the one the other thing first before you allowed to use it | 07:12 |
| Nico[m] | But I think he wanted to play a video that was split in 2 streams, audio and video and you basically need dask to play them or "reimplement" it by combining those streams in gstreamer | 07:13 |
| abranson | well, I spoke to him about it, and he wanted legal clarification, and that's what he's got | 07:13 |
| Thaodan | Nico[m]: next meeting at 18:00 confirmed xD | 07:13 |
| Nico[m] | Thaodan: TODAY?!? | 07:13 |
| rubdos[ma] | "no afternoon meetings" is what I heard last time ;p | 07:13 |
| Thaodan | No meetings that are close to lunch time, a man needs time to go to lunch | 07:14 |
| abranson | because the whole patent situation around DASH is a mess right now. There's a licensing authority but it doesn't cover enough patents so it's not active right now. So I guess the legal solution right now would be to license all those patents individually from each licensee. | 07:14 |
| rubdos[ma] | Sounds like your typical MPEG/JPEG license mess :( | 07:15 |
| sledges | #info <abranson> because the whole patent situation around DASH is a mess right now. There's a licensing authority but it doesn't cover enough patents so it's not active right now. So I guess the legal solution right now would be to license all those patents individually from each licensee. | 07:15 |
| sledges | and 5 minutes just gone (twice actually:) | 07:15 |
| sledges | moving on | 07:15 |
| sledges | #topic Collaboration with community on future-proofing Xperia X with updated Android app support (15 min -- asked by nthn, represented by rubdos) | 07:15 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Collaboration with community on future-proofing Xperia X with updated Android app support (15 min -- asked by nthn, represented by rubdos) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021)" | 07:15 | |
| sledges | #info <nthn> In Nov 2019, Jolla decided against an updated baseport for Xperia X because they would have to maintain two baseports for one device, but community sees no problem in abandoning the old baseport and reflashing their devices, and is able and willing to help Jolla out with a new baseport - community member @vknecht already got Sailfish running on kernel 4.9 in Dec 2019. | 07:16 |
| sledges | #info <nthn> Would Jolla revisit their decision, and if so, what should community do to make updated kernel/Android app support on Xperia X a reality? | 07:16 |
| sledges | #info Extended details: | 07:16 |
| sledges | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-apr-2021/5818/10 | 07:16 |
| sledges | #info <Jolla> Jolla is not actively developing new baseports for old devices that are no longer sold anywhere, but we are looking into possibility of allowing community to buy proprietary parts of Sailfish X to install on top of community ports, but unfortunately we are not there yet. | 07:16 |
| Nico[m] | Oh, that would be amazing! | 07:17 |
| Nico[m] | Also, my whole family is using the X compact by now for some reason, so having a newer android and baseport for it would be appreciated .-. | 07:17 |
| rubdos[ma] | That would basically open up the whole wide world of smartphones to a full-fledged SailfishOS... Woah. | 07:17 |
| rubdos[ma] | You're saying you're not actively developing a new baseport, but apparently the community has done it. It might make sense that, if that community port works and the proprietary bits fit right in, you can help the community by swapping maintenance to the new port? | 07:19 |
| rubdos[ma] | I'm not sure whether the old port is still "sold and supported" at this point (I'm an X10 user myself) | 07:19 |
| Nico[m] | Ruben De Smet: The newer android part works pretty differently, so the swap wouldn't just magically work | 07:20 |
| rubdos[ma] | More like swapping it on an administrative level: Jolla saying "this is old, if you have a new Xperia, install this instead" | 07:20 |
| sledges | Xperia X is still receiving all sfos updates and needed CVEs in its kernel | 07:21 |
| rubdos[ma] | I guess it would double the work for Jolla for some time, if you were to "upgrade" it :-/ | 07:21 |
| sledges | if you "upgrade" (=reflash) it with a community port, doesn't it become a community port?:) | 07:22 |
| sledges | +device | 07:22 |
| Thaodan | There are some restrictions on updating devices, even updated devices are not completely updated by sony | 07:23 |
| rubdos[ma] | Yeh, I think nthn would basically want Jolla to cooperate on the "community port" and make it an "official port"... | 07:23 |
| sledges | rubdos, yep, but that does double the work, and was the same reason in 2019 | 07:23 |
| abranson | But I think the main motivation for asking about official ports there is to get the sailfishx stuff | 07:25 |
| rinigus | interesting way if it works to provide prop bits to community ports. that way xperia x could be offloaded to community and supported by porters, if newer prop bits are needed. | 07:25 |
| rubdos[ma] | Yes. Getting as close as possible to "supported with all the nice bits" is the goal, I feel. | 07:25 |
| rinigus | let's see if we have porter(s) interested in it | 07:25 |
| rinigus | ... supporting x | 07:25 |
| rubdos[ma] | Indeed, putting the proprietary bits for sale will solve 99% of the issue, I think. | 07:26 |
| abranson | There's no way Jolla could commit to taking over maintenance of all ports. I don't think even our build infra could take all those builds, let alone the sailors :D | 07:26 |
| Nico[m] | Bah, the build infra part would be solveable ;p | 07:26 |
| abranson | just expensive :D | 07:27 |
| rubdos[ma] | Well, we're not asking to support literally all the smartphones that ever existed on the planet :'-) | 07:27 |
| rubdos[ma] | Just Throw It In The Cloud™ | 07:27 |
| abranson | but they'd all need updating. how many ports are out there that the original porter stopped supporting. | 07:27 |
| Nico[m] | But if the X stuff would work with any community port (or most of them), I would have a lot more freedom to choose devices and maybe I would even make my own port. So that sounds really nice :D | 07:28 |
| rubdos[ma] | It might be a major incentive for porters to step up and keep maintaining for longer. | 07:28 |
| rinigus | abranson: I don't think it was asked to support all ports. original topic was regarding xperia x. jolla's solution is to say no to that specific question, but propose the way to make it possible by community. | 07:29 |
| rinigus | which is fine, I guess | 07:29 |
| rubdos[ma] | If you consider Xperia X to be "written off", having the community maintain it for a few years longer sounds like a fair deal, given the proprietary nuts and bolts... | 07:29 |
| Nico[m] | rinigus: Probably better than what was asked for .-. | 07:29 |
| rinigus | sure, unofficial ports users will be happy for such outcome | 07:30 |
| rinigus | and we can test how many people will be willing to put hours into making xperia x switch happen. | 07:31 |
| abranson | rinigus: the question if jolla would make a port official kind of adds those questions on, and I think it's important to make clear why that's not feasible. If it's expected that Jolla then maintain the port indefinitely, then those would quickly accumulate. | 07:31 |
| abranson | but as we're saying, it should be necessary | 07:31 |
| abranson | shouldn't! | 07:31 |
| rubdos[ma] | I mean, for the Xperia X the porting work seems to be "done" already, so I feel like the switch will be relatively smooth... | 07:31 |
| rinigus | is unofficial xperia x port updated to the latest version? | 07:32 |
| rinigus | that "done" is reset with every SFOS release and you have to update the port accordingly. which is not Jolla's job and shouldn't be. | 07:33 |
| rinigus | abranson: sure, don't think it was implied. but always good to be clear on it | 07:33 |
| abranson | yeah, that was my point. it's the assumption that everything else must work around | 07:34 |
| Nico[m] | abranson: Some ports really should be made official just for image purposes imo, like PinePhone and FairPhone ports, but that is a different topic .-. | 07:35 |
| rubdos[ma] | Nico, rinigus , I was replying to "and we can test how many people will be willing to put hours into making xperia x switch happen." | 07:35 |
| Nico[m] | Ruben De Smet: I'm pretty sure the switch for users could not be done via a simple update, so you get the annoying maintenance split, I think. So even if the work is done, it doesn't mean that Jolla wouldn't have a lot more work on their hands, if they made it official. | 07:35 |
| rubdos[ma] | not re Jolla taking it up anymore :-) | 07:35 |
| sledges | so, not the answer nthn was hoping for, but a better one:)) let's move on (or continue) | 07:37 |
| sledges | #topic General discussion (20 min) | 07:37 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021)" | 07:37 | |
| Nico[m] | Ah, i see :D | 07:37 |
| rinigus | Ruben De Smet: yes, it is probably going to be relatively smooth if it all worked on some recent SFOS release. just some work will be needed./ | 07:37 |
| rubdos[ma] | Maybe a last follow-up: it would be nice if Jolla could provide the proprietary bits for community ports some time ahead of deprecating/abandoning the existing Xperia X port. | 07:38 |
| rubdos[ma] | But I guess that's obvious :-) | 07:38 |
| * Nico[m] comes to complain about Qt5.6 again. Can you please go to management again and ask them for a solution? <3 | 07:38 | |
| rinigus | I haven't asked as it was late when the question came up. so, maybe as a part of gen discussion: would Jolla consider hosting ports in some manner? | 07:38 |
| sledges | Nico[m]: we do that on regular basis:) | 07:39 |
| Nico[m] | Like not, if we can get a Qt upgrade, but how we can get a Qt upgrade? :D | 07:39 |
| rubdos[ma] | I'm also joining the Qt5.6-is-sad-camp now; we've got KDE devs willing to port Whisperfish to Plasma ;p | 07:39 |
| Nico[m] | sledges: Thought as much. Just making some noise .-. | 07:39 |
| Mister_Magister | oh dang i overslept | 07:39 |
| Nico[m] | It is getting painful to have the MOC from Qt5.6 work with C++17 namespaces and such | 07:39 |
| sledges | Nico[m]: rubdos[ma]: have you seen this? https://dot.kde.org/2021/04/06/announcing-kdes-qt-5-patch-collection | 07:39 |
| Mister_Magister | welp too bad | 07:40 |
| abranson | rinigus: don't some ports have bits in that can't be redistributed legally? | 07:40 |
| rinigus | I have worked on building complicated apps/ports on PC and got to the stage where I can build port and my apps quite well, similar to OBS. but hosting bits of OBS are needed externally | 07:40 |
| Nico[m] | sledges: Yes, I have seen that, we are currently updating the gentoo builds to use that | 07:40 |
| sledges | nice | 07:40 |
| rinigus | abranson: not to my knowledge. we usually ask to flash lineage as a base with those bits | 07:40 |
| rubdos[ma] | Thanks sledges , will forward that to the KDE people ;p | 07:40 |
| sledges | rubdos[ma]: was a side-note :p | 07:41 |
| rinigus | and for sony there is a whole legal way for it | 07:41 |
| Nico[m] | But I doubt those patches fix your licensing issues :D | 07:41 |
| Nico[m] | Also, good morning, Mister_Magister! | 07:41 |
| rubdos[ma] | I have one other for the general discussion. Given the recent stuff about the (apparently incapable) people of Cellebrite trying to exfiltrate smart phone data, I was thinking about what to do when SailfishOS becomes a target. See e.g. https://signal.org/blog/cellebrite-vulnerabilities/. | 07:42 |
| Mister_Magister | you can ask DASH-IF or any opensource player including gstreamer. none of them have any idea what license cost you are talking about | 07:42 |
| Nico[m] | FTR, Qt5.6 compat in C++ only libs is not too hard, but still annoying: https://github.com/Nheko-Reborn/mtxclient/commit/1d85613f56d6d30c989ae5eeca3b6cb7f2bd86a6 | 07:42 |
| Mister_Magister | there are no license costs associated with playing DASH | 07:42 |
| Mister_Magister | its jolla's imaginary tihng | 07:42 |
| sledges | rinigus: i don't think built sony's /system and /vendor contents are allowed to be hosted publicly | 07:42 |
| flypig | rubdos[ma], did you see the paper about using Cellebrite with SFOS? | 07:43 |
| rubdos[ma] | No, absolutely not | 07:43 |
| rinigus | sledges: do you have reference to that? since those are built without prop bits which you download separately | 07:43 |
| Thaodan | sledges: I don't think thats the case | 07:43 |
| sledges | built binaries will have all android mixed licences within | 07:44 |
| Thaodan | only the parts from odm are not public | 07:44 |
| rinigus | when I asked on sony opendevices I mainly got laughed at. there is also a post regarding it | 07:44 |
| Thaodan | the rest is apache/bsd code | 07:44 |
| rinigus | sledges: as long as they are open source, it is OK | 07:44 |
| sledges | but each and every licence needs to be accounted for, i think that was the prob | 07:44 |
| sledges | i.e. in RPM's .spec | 07:44 |
| rubdos[ma] | flypig: https://www.forensicfocus.com/articles/meeting-a-forensic-challenge-recovering-data-from-a-jolla-smartphone/ this one? | 07:45 |
| sledges | src is trivial -- it's in the header of a file:) | 07:45 |
| Thaodan | /system and /vendor is the case of sony just aosp but some vendors have blobs in /vendor | 07:45 |
| flypig | rubdos[ma], interesting, but no not that one. This one: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167404820303278 | 07:45 |
| rinigus | sledges: in principle, we don't even need to host /system & /vendor. as those are used only while making image. what is needed all SFOS rpm's that get updated with OTA | 07:46 |
| sledges | i've run a scrambler script once for the amount of licences in aosp, it's a mixed bag:) | 07:46 |
| Nico[m] | Oh, while we are talking about recovering data from Sailfish devices, when will we get alphanumeric passcodes for FDE? :D | 07:46 |
| rubdos[ma] | Ah a real paper, flypig :-) | 07:46 |
| sledges | rinigus: system and vendor get regular updates | 07:46 |
| rinigus | sledges: do you update it via updated /system & /vendor RPMs as well on official devices? | 07:47 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Hi there | 07:47 |
| flypig | rubdos[ma], I could be misremembering the forensic tool they used in that paper. | 07:47 |
| sledges | rinigus: yes, because we don't ask users to flash aosp first:) we package /system and /vendor into RPMs | 07:47 |
| sledges | and leave open door for future patches | 07:47 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I feel interested into Sailfish and the Astro Slide, is there any support planned? | 07:47 |
| rubdos[ma] | flypig: they have UFED in the list | 07:47 |
| rinigus | sledges: yes, same for tama port. but I don't update those ones, maybe should | 07:48 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Can I use Sailfish on this device? | 07:48 |
| rubdos[ma] | UFED requires ADB, so that's a no-no. | 07:48 |
| rinigus | sledges: but back to the point - system and vendor should be legal to distribute. how do you do it then for official devices? | 07:48 |
| sledges | for active ports sony keeps pushing fixes; especially for something that's coming up;) (see first news): | 07:48 |
| sledges | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-22nd-april/5967 | 07:48 |
| sledges | rinigus: i'm talking about hosting them on a public server | 07:49 |
| ShalokShalom51 | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer | 07:49 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Thanks | 07:49 |
| Nico[m] | I really need to get some notifications going for those blog posts! | 07:49 |
| rinigus | sledges: but the server from which updates are pulled can be also considered public, isn't it? | 07:49 |
| Nico[m] | Could the writer maybe spam the link once in #sailfishos? :D | 07:50 |
| rinigus | the one used for official sony ports | 07:50 |
| Thaodan | It is common that aosp images are distributed by porters on xda | 07:50 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Hi there | 07:50 |
| Thaodan | Is see no issue here | 07:50 |
| rinigus | Thaodan: XDA images will not help with OTA | 07:51 |
| Mister_Magister | sledges: so we gotta suffer because jolla lives in imaginary world of dash playback costs even though literally noone has any idea what you are talking about? https://youdieifyou.work/files/hbynibuduahk.png | 07:51 |
| rinigus | we do need some server where we can point OTAs, as we do with OBS right now | 07:51 |
| flypig | rubdos[ma], yes, you're right, they used UFED and X-Ways | 07:51 |
| flypig | Forensics. | 07:51 |
| Nico[m] | Guess I need to buy a 10 now to test 64bit apps :D | 07:51 |
| sledges | rinigus: but we do not host public git repos for the system and vendor binary blobs and build everything internally | 07:51 |
| Thaodan | rinigus: That was just one example why I think distrubting them is no issue. | 07:51 |
| sledges | rinigus: build guide explicitly says "do not push droid-system to public git" | 07:52 |
| Nico[m] | Especially since my X is having issues with shutdown and I need to unplug the battery... | 07:52 |
| Thaodan | sledges: droid-system contains no blobs that are not build by foss sources | 07:52 |
| sledges | rinigus: i believe this has to be sorted after we have accouted for each and every licence within aosp | 07:52 |
| sledges | Thaodan: ^ | 07:52 |
| rinigus | sledges: from legal POV, it shouldn't matter whether /system /vendor are distributed from your closed or public server. you redistribute them which means that such license check was done | 07:53 |
| flypig | rubdos[ma], plus a bunch of others: Autopsy, Axium, Cellebrite, EnCase, FTK, GetData... | 07:53 |
| Thaodan | If this was an issue xda would be shutdown years ago | 07:53 |
| rinigus | notice that you don't redistribute prop bobs, but Sony does | 07:54 |
| sledges | rinigus: but it has to account in RPM's Licence line | 07:54 |
| rubdos[ma] | flypig: can we offer ADB on the Sony devices that just sends "interesting files" (as per moxie0) to Cellebrite? ;-) | 07:54 |
| rinigus | sledges: so what license line do we have there. you probably wrote it... | 07:54 |
| sledges | a sailor who took the decision wrote all that, and it's WIP | 07:55 |
| flypig | rubdos[ma], yeah, that would be fun to set up. I don't see why not. | 07:55 |
| rubdos[ma] | hehehe | 07:55 |
| rinigus | sledges: OK, iff you don't want to redistribute system/vendor right now, what about other packages? | 07:55 |
| rinigus | ... and we can discuss legal aspect of system/vendor later | 07:56 |
| sledges | abranson: could you see Mister_Magister comment pls ^^ | 07:56 |
| Mister_Magister | sledges: i will go directly to MPEG-LA and confirm about any licensing costs associated with opensource players if jolla is too lazy | 07:57 |
| sledges | rinigus: going back to your original request: there is no provision of hosting, because jolla would have to vet for everything's that's being uploaded, to check if something non-redist has sneaked in (even unwillingly) | 07:57 |
| Mister_Magister | gstreamer guys have no idea about any license either | 07:57 |
| abranson | Mister_Magister: did you email mpeg-la like she suggested? | 07:57 |
| Mister_Magister | i'm going to | 07:57 |
| sledges | rinigus: community has hosted numerous things (gitlab CI), i'm sure a hosting solution can be achieved similar way through joint effort | 07:57 |
| Mister_Magister | but you missed first part | 07:57 |
| Mister_Magister | >We do not have any licensing fees and are not involved with any fees. | 07:58 |
| sledges | openrepos was another party extending a helping hand | 07:58 |
| abranson | ok. we can ask the legal team to look into that maybe. | 07:58 |
| rinigus | sledges: now that means, unless we fund it somehow externally from Jolla, ports will have to look for solution. or stop with them and move away | 07:58 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: thats all i want | 07:58 |
| sledges | rinigus: it's a do-it-together spirit | 07:58 |
| sledges | just like it's always been | 07:59 |
| Mister_Magister | rinigus: we already have solution for OTA ports | 07:59 |
| rinigus | sledges: OBS? | 07:59 |
| rinigus | that doesn't support aarch64 right now | 07:59 |
| rinigus | sorry, Mister_Magister | 08:00 |
| sledges | rinigus: and OBS is not forever (also suffers from unvetted uploads) | 08:00 |
| Mister_Magister | rinigus: mentioned, openrepos | 08:00 |
| Mister_Magister | guy agreed that we can put device packages there, even on separate account | 08:00 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Any dev here? https://jolla.com/sailfishx/ | 08:01 |
| rinigus | Mister_Magister: I don't think we have some kind of API to push the packages. then you also need separate repos for different versions. | 08:01 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Look at the comparison sheet | 08:01 |
| Mister_Magister | rinigus: thats true | 08:01 |
| Mister_Magister | ultimately maybe ill cook something | 08:02 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Android 9 is now supported on the 10, this graph still shows 8.1 | 08:02 |
| Mister_Magister | getting 1TB server that will just host packages is like 5€ play | 08:02 |
| rinigus | sledges: neither are we (re forever). | 08:02 |
| Mister_Magister | so don't you worry | 08:02 |
| rinigus | Mister_Magister: depends on number of downloads, that's probably main expense | 08:02 |
| sledges | rinigus: HADK OTA updates (chapter 12) describes how to handle multiple versions | 08:03 |
| Mister_Magister | rinigus: ports aren't much popular | 08:03 |
| sledges | on a externally hosted repos | 08:03 |
| Mister_Magister | quite honestly | 08:03 |
| rubdos[ma] | ShalokShalom51: it's very unlikely that Jolla will start supporting a non-Sony device currently. | 08:03 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Thanks | 08:03 |
| sledges | rinigus: it's the same scenario like TMO keeping N900 up and running | 08:03 |
| rubdos[ma] | ShalokShalom51: we're basically all devs here. | 08:03 |
| rinigus | sledges: hence I was asking regarding hosting. | 08:03 |
| ShalokShalom51 | It did so with the Gemini, from the same company | 08:03 |
| rubdos[ma] | Ah | 08:04 |
| Mister_Magister | as long as i'm in this, there will always be a way | 08:04 |
| sledges | rinigus: i was answering to "then you also need separate repos for different versions" :) | 08:04 |
| rubdos[ma] | Didn't make that link myself, ShalokShalom51 ... Then I didn't say anything :-) | 08:04 |
| ShalokShalom51 | ? | 08:04 |
| rinigus | sledges: actually, as you guys have the data - can you tell how much data does OBS serve during a month? | 08:04 |
| Nico[m] | Btw, what is the process for getting qml APIs whitelisted for harbour? Could I get Sailfish.Silica.Background whitelisted at some point? <3 | 08:04 |
| Mister_Magister | sledges: i second that | 08:04 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Did the Gemini support come from Sailfish directly? | 08:05 |
| rinigus | on average, then it will be clear what do we talk about. as, indeed, some 3rd party hosting can be done in the cloud as well | 08:05 |
| Mister_Magister | rinigus: or in my living room, or in cloud, whatever is doable | 08:05 |
| rubdos[ma] | Nico: fwiw, we rolled our own roundedbackground because of 3.x and 4.x incompat ;p | 08:05 |
| Thaodan | I think users that use SFOS are interested in being hosted by "the cloud" | 08:05 |
| Nico[m] | Ruben De Smet: Is that harbour compatible? :D | 08:06 |
| rubdos[ma] | haha harbour | 08:06 |
| sledges | rinigus: i'll get back to you on how much data community OBS serves a month, unless lbt knows already:) | 08:06 |
| Mister_Magister | Thaodan: users wouldn't see diff | 08:06 |
| rubdos[ma] | We're on Rust with a ton of hacks, harbour is far for us :D | 08:06 |
| Mister_Magister | my living room is the cloud | 08:06 |
| Nico[m] | Because that is the last dependency really blocking me from harbour | 08:06 |
| rubdos[ma] | ShalokShalom51: the Gemini is an official SailfishX from Jolla afaik. | 08:06 |
| rinigus | sledges: thanks. we just need something that will not disappear in a year or two | 08:06 |
| Mister_Magister | can we just ignore existance of harbour | 08:06 |
| ShalokShalom51 | This graph is outdated and shown on the webpage: https://jolla.com/content/uploads/2020/01/SailfishX-table@2x.png?x54860 | 08:06 |
| lbt | I don't monitor OBS serving as the Hetzner solution is unlimited | 08:06 |
| Mister_Magister | and move with our lives | 08:06 |
| Thaodan | Mister_Magister: I'm not sure if thats to polish to me xD | 08:06 |
| Mister_Magister | Thaodan: it really is | 08:07 |
| Mister_Magister | but like is said getting 1TB vps with 1Gb/s link is ez | 08:07 |
| Nico[m] | And it seems small and self contained and it did get recently moved to its own package, so I think it was planned to be allowed at some point :D | 08:07 |
| ShalokShalom51 | rubdos: So it is possible to support another device of this lineup | 08:07 |
| Mister_Magister | and that would be enough for us i think | 08:07 |
| rinigus | lbt: OK, np. | 08:07 |
| rubdos[ma] | ShalokShalom51: they only added Xperia 10 II this morning, give them some time to update the graphs ;p | 08:07 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Ah, ok | 08:07 |
| Thaodan | Mister_Magister: I know, there is https://thaodan.de/public/sailfishos/community/ already used by tama. | 08:08 |
| ShalokShalom51 | And I mean the Android 9 support | 08:08 |
| rubdos[ma] | ShalokShalom51: if the 10 II interests you: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-22nd-april/5967 | 08:08 |
| Mister_Magister | Thaodan: nothing is stopping you from usign your own repos | 08:08 |
| ShalokShalom51 | That one is a littler older, I think? | 08:08 |
| Mister_Magister | i'm just thinking about global solution | 08:08 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I am interested into the Astro Slide | 08:08 |
| Nico[m] | Also, has anyone played around with OpenPush on Sailfish? | 08:08 |
| Thaodan | Well anyone that pings me can hoost their repos there | 08:08 |
| Thaodan | *host | 08:09 |
| Mister_Magister | heh | 08:09 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Since the physical keyboard | 08:09 |
| Thaodan | It is far to early.. | 08:09 |
| Mister_Magister | i'll most likely host my packages in my living room xd | 08:09 |
| ViGe | Nico[m]: The "process" of gettin an API allowed starts by getting it to pass the checklist: https://sailfishos.org/wiki/API_Checklist. I have no idea if the API you mentioned does that already. | 08:09 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Is the Qt 5.6 debacle already solved? | 08:09 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: HAH | 08:09 |
| rubdos[ma] | They're all older, the Xperias. They need some time to get a new device supported. I think maybe for the Astro Slide you could open a topic on the forum, or write a topic for the next meeting. It's too noisy and unfocussed in the "General Discussion", ShalokShalom51 . | 08:09 |
| Nico[m] | ViGe: Thanks, I'll look at it :3 | 08:09 |
| Mister_Magister | think we will be in 5.6 for next 10 years | 08:09 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Ok, thanks a lot. | 08:09 |
| rubdos[ma] | ^ slightly dramatic | 08:09 |
| Mister_Magister | we don't deal in up to date in sfos | 08:10 |
| rubdos[ma] | (but it does get the point across haha) | 08:10 |
| Nico[m] | Mister_Magister: I see, you are an optimist! | 08:10 |
| Mister_Magister | we deal in older than debian stable | 08:10 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: mhm | 08:10 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Did you contact KDE? | 08:10 |
| rinigus | Thaodan: OK, let's discuss distribution via your server then on porters channel at some point. | 08:10 |
| ShalokShalom51 | They could release the license. | 08:10 |
| Thaodan | Mister_Magister: Don't let coronara restrictions hinder you in hosting packages for other people xD | 08:10 |
| maier | rubdos[ma]: is there a chance to get the Sony 10 III working with SOF? | 08:10 |
| Mister_Magister | give me one package from sfos standard repos thats newer than same package in debian stable | 08:10 |
| Mister_Magister | Thaodan: hm? | 08:11 |
| Thaodan | rinigus: | 08:11 |
| Thaodan | rinigus: sure | 08:11 |
| rubdos[ma] | maier: you have an unreleased device, or is that a typo? | 08:11 |
| rubdos[ma] | (or did I miss a release?) | 08:11 |
| ShalokShalom51 | You know about their specific Qt license privilege, yes? | 08:11 |
| * rubdos[ma] missed a release | 08:11 | |
| Nico[m] | ViGe: I guess it kinda fits most of those points, I guess it is probably missing some docs though. It is the bubble background used in the messaging app FTR, so it is useful for messaging apps, that want to look similar to the first party one :3 | 08:11 |
| rubdos[ma] | maier: there's always a chance, if you port it yourself, I suppose. | 08:11 |
| Thaodan | Mister_Magister: That was a bad pun on hosting stuff in your living room | 08:11 |
| ShalokShalom51 | They also considered forking Qt | 08:11 |
| maier | rubdos[ma]: you are right ... but that is my next mobile | 08:11 |
| Mister_Magister | Thaodan: got 100Mb/s uplink… and server is running 24/7 anyway | 08:12 |
| Mister_Magister | like my website is on it | 08:12 |
| rubdos[ma] | You could look at the latency between a Sony release and a Jolla release, and extrapolate that to see when III is supported maier :-) | 08:12 |
| ShalokShalom51 | https://kde.org/community/whatiskde/kdefreeqtfoundation/ | 08:12 |
| Nico[m] | I guess I should ask here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/what-apis-are-missing-from-harbour/4017/46 | 08:13 |
| ShalokShalom51 | A BSD license is probably fitting for the project | 08:13 |
| rinigus | Ruben De Smet: also add latency between sony release and sony aosp release | 08:13 |
| maier | Slowly it is annoying to get only old hw! | 08:13 |
| ViGe | Mister_Magister: So.. what do I get if I tell you a package which is newer on the last released SFOS release than Debian stable? | 08:13 |
| rubdos[ma] | If there is variability on that part, rinigus , then it needs to be accounted for :-) | 08:13 |
| Mister_Magister | ViGe: my respect…? i can paypal u 1€ | 08:14 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Qt 5.6 is obviously synonym with killing the company, so Sailfish is the next BB10 then.. | 08:14 |
| rinigus | there is some, I believe. + to variability, it takes sufficient amount of time usually | 08:14 |
| ShalokShalom51 | While this died for several reasons. | 08:14 |
| ViGe | Mister_Magister: respect is enough, you can forget the 1€ ;) createrepo in SFOS 4.0.1 is at 0.12.0, while Debian still has 0.10.3 I guess there might be other packages as well | 08:15 |
| Nico[m] | ShalokShalom51: There is no need to be dramatic | 08:15 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: he is not dramatic | 08:16 |
| Mister_Magister | state of sailfishos is terrible currently | 08:16 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Slightly | 08:16 |
| Mister_Magister | and its getting worse | 08:16 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Are there any spins done by the community? | 08:17 |
| * rubdos[ma] is off buying new glasses now, see you the next one! | 08:17 | |
| Nico[m] | Ruben De Smet: Hah, good pun! | 08:17 |
| Thaodan | rubdos[ma]: See you :) | 08:17 |
| Nico[m] | See ya! | 08:17 |
| maier | Is there a way to do payments with a SFOS mobile directly? like in other modern OS's? | 08:17 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I think the situation is well compared to Blackberry | 08:17 |
| ShalokShalom51 | And we all know that | 08:17 |
| Mister_Magister | nemo is the future | 08:17 |
| Thaodan | maier: Is there one that does not require lock down (of the device)? | 08:17 |
| rubdos[ma] | Nico: pun not intended O.o | 08:18 |
| abranson | "modern" == devices that you don't really own :D | 08:18 |
| maier | My son's Samsung... | 08:18 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Great OS and slowing down development for the decisions made by people, who pay the bills .. and touch zero code. | 08:18 |
| Nico[m] | Ruben De Smet: Still, I liked it ;p | 08:18 |
| sledges | we're ever so "slightly" overtime, let's wrap up | 08:19 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Nemo? Let me see | 08:19 |
| Mister_Magister | sledges: just tell jolla to really check the dash situation pls | 08:19 |
| flypig | maier, are there open payment systems that Sailfish could hook up to? | 08:19 |
| maier | I understand you all ...I also what the control over the device I use! But the main point us I what to use it. | 08:19 |
| Mister_Magister | ask gstreamer ash mpeg-la ask anyone | 08:19 |
| abranson | personally I'm still more comfortable with a separate card. I wouldn't run third-party software on that... | 08:20 |
| flypig | ShalokShalom51, thanks for flagging up the outdated info in that table. I've passed the info on so it can be updated. | 08:20 |
| sledges | #info quite a discussion (make yourself a cuppa) | 08:20 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Sure, thanks | 08:21 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Always here to help | 08:21 |
| flypig | :D | 08:21 |
| ShalokShalom51 | :) | 08:21 |
| Nico[m] | It's nice to see such lively community meetings, even if half the comments are complaints :D | 08:21 |
| sledges | #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min) | 08:21 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22th April 2021)" | 08:21 | |
| flypig | Nico[m], I've asked about Background too. I'll let you know if there's any info on that. | 08:21 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Complaints are simply bug reports with emotions as attachments | 08:21 |
| sledges | Proposing Thursday 6th May at 7am UTC | 08:22 |
| Nico[m] | flypig: Lovely, thank you! <3 | 08:22 |
| ExTechOp | sledges That sounds workable | 08:22 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So the meetings is still to come? | 08:22 |
| sledges | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 6th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC: 2021-05-06T07Z | 08:22 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Isnt UTC 7 already couple of hours back? | 08:22 |
| maier | flypig: I do not hat the possibillity to pay with my SFOS device ... I'm even not able to login to other payment ssyems because of old sw. | 08:22 |
| Nico[m] | ShalokShalom51: Yeah, I think most people know that by now. .-. | 08:22 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Ah, ok | 08:22 |
| Nico[m] | Also, meeting is over, not starting ;p | 08:23 |
| ExTechOp | Thanks! | 08:23 |
| Nico[m] | Thanks for the meeting and the answers, everyone! | 08:23 |
| sledges | thanks all, let's keep spirits up and May complaints be replaced by fixed bugreports:) | 08:23 |
| sledges | #endmeeting | 08:23 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Apr 22 08:23:50 2021 UTC. | 08:23 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2021/sailfishos-meeting.2021-04-22-06.59.html | 08:23 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2021/sailfishos-meeting.2021-04-22-06.59.txt | 08:23 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2021/sailfishos-meeting.2021-04-22-06.59.log.html | 08:23 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 22nd April 2021 at 7:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-apr-2021/5818" | 08:23 | |
| Nico[m] | I feel like the May is a pun too .-. | 08:24 |
| Nico[m] | I heard every bug will be fixed next month | 08:24 |
| * sledges ducks the flying plate | 08:24 | |
| Nico[m] | Anyway, have a nice day! | 08:25 |
| flypig | You too :D | 08:25 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Does anyone do programming on SailfishOS? | 08:26 |
| Nico[m] | Most of the people in the meeting do | 08:26 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Like, on your phone | 08:26 |
| Nico[m] | Oh, yeah, not that part, rather for SailfishOS | 08:26 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I see that Docker is embraced for that, is there any possibility to hack F# on .Net with proper IDE support, lets say Emacs or even VSCode? | 08:27 |
| abranson | there was a great app called tIDE that might still be around. that was a phone based IDE that could even be launched as root and edit the system qml | 08:27 |
| flypig | ShalokShalom51, it's certainly possible, I do occasionally. | 08:27 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Ok, thanks | 08:27 |
| flypig | I use vim though. | 08:27 |
| flypig | And a Planet Gemini, as the keyboard makes things a lot easier. | 08:28 |
| ShalokShalom51 | abranson: Yes, I am more looking into 'obscure' languages, functional ones in particular. | 08:28 |
| abranson | Vim on the gemini is lovely | 08:28 |
| Nico[m] | I ssh into my device and use Vim, does that count? | 08:28 |
| flypig | Sure :) Use your laptop as a dumb terminal :) | 08:29 |
| Nico[m] | :D | 08:29 |
| flypig | (I do that too, of course) | 08:29 |
| ShalokShalom51 | flypig: Do you understand something around the possibility to support the successor of the Gemini, that is now coming out, the Astro Slide? | 08:29 |
| flypig | I know the device, but I can't tell you anything about support I'm afraid. | 08:29 |
| ShalokShalom51 | https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer | 08:29 |
| abranson | very nice looking phone. just like the n950 | 08:29 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Ok, very sad | 08:29 |
| flypig | There's good support for the f(x)tec as I understand it, which is also a really nice phone. | 08:30 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 6th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-6th-may-2021/5985" | 08:30 | |
| ShalokShalom51 | Yeah? Its not my first choice, still good to know | 08:30 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I looked for list of supported devices, and found only the official one | 08:31 |
| flypig | There's a wiki with ports listed, but I don't know how up-to-date it is. | 08:31 |
| flypig | I'm not the right person on this though I'm afraid. Porting is mysterious to me. | 08:31 |
| ShalokShalom51 | abranson: Could you change the keys, like on a normal keyboard on the N950? | 08:32 |
| abranson | what do you mean? physically? | 08:32 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Porting is also mysterious to me, specifically if it is going to happen for the devices I consider ^^ | 08:33 |
| ShalokShalom51 | ab: Yes | 08:33 |
| flypig | ShalokShalom51, did you ask about it on the sailfish-porters channel? | 08:33 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Its a full on keyboard, same size and easy to replace the individual keys. | 08:33 |
| abranson | there was a community port done by Planet before there was the official sfos port for the Gemini. Maybe they'd consider doing one for the astro slide too | 08:33 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Thx | 08:33 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I hope so | 08:34 |
| ShalokShalom51 | No for the Cosmo, though | 08:34 |
| flypig | This is the ports list I was thinking of. abranson do you know if there's anything more recent/up-to-date? | 08:35 |
| flypig | https://wiki.merproject.org/wiki/Adaptations/libhybris | 08:35 |
| abranson | maybe they'd be more interested when/if we get this sailfishx for ports thing sorted. the disappointing thing about the gemini port was that it was lacking the android app support | 08:35 |
| abranson | flypig: that's the only one I know. I think we need to make one somewhere else | 08:35 |
| ShalokShalom51 | And particulary, who usually ports devices | 08:35 |
| abranson | #sailfishos-porters is where they all hang out | 08:35 |
| flypig | Yeah, it would be good to have an up-to-date list, but difficult to maintain. | 08:35 |
| abranson | it's very active | 08:35 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Huge thanks :) | 08:36 |
| Thaodan | It is even aviable through telegram similar to this channel | 08:36 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Sailfish for ports? | 08:36 |
| abranson | I think that list is fairly well maintained, but i don't know how sustainable that wiki is | 08:36 |
| ShalokShalom51 | SailfishX for ports | 08:38 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Is this some attempt, to unify the porting attempts? | 08:39 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Something like Halium, maybe? | 08:39 |
| Nico[m] | No, it means you would be able to run android apps on most community sailfish ports! | 08:39 |
| abranson | was mentioned earlier in the meeting. currently the licensed parts of sailfish (the SailfishX bit you buy from the store) is only available for 'official' ports made by jolla. | 08:39 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: I've contacted MPEG-LA just now | 08:40 |
| abranson | ShalokShalom51: SailfishOS has its own Hardware Adaptation Development Kit for porting. That's what all the porters use. | 08:40 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So most community ports can currently not run Android? | 08:44 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Who are the commercial Jolla customers? | 08:44 |
| rubdos[ma] | None of the community ports, afaik. | 08:44 |
| Mister_Magister | rubdos[ma]: em false | 08:45 |
| rubdos[ma] | oh! | 08:45 |
| Mister_Magister | but for legal purposes… | 08:45 |
| Mister_Magister | none | 08:45 |
| rubdos[ma] | :D | 08:45 |
| Nico[m] | Yeah, legally none can :D | 08:45 |
| Mister_Magister | don't tell jolla that we been bad boys | 08:45 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So the Android emulation is also non-free? | 08:45 |
| Mister_Magister | ye | 08:45 |
| Mister_Magister | non-legally… i can count like 2-3 devices | 08:45 |
| Nico[m] | ShalokShalom51: It uses licensed parts | 08:45 |
| rubdos[ma] | The Android emu is not even in Jolla's power to relicense afaik | 08:46 |
| ShalokShalom51 | That is quite telling | 08:46 |
| Mister_Magister | yep | 08:46 |
| rubdos[ma] | BUT, now glasses 🙈 | 08:46 |
| Mister_Magister | common konwledge | 08:46 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So postmarketOS | 08:46 |
| Mister_Magister | not this pathetic thing again | 08:46 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So why not use Ambox or LXC or something? | 08:46 |
| ShalokShalom51 | *Anbox | 08:46 |
| Mister_Magister | we do | 08:46 |
| Mister_Magister | welll | 08:47 |
| Mister_Magister | we did | 08:47 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Aha | 08:47 |
| Mister_Magister | there's noone to work on it | 08:47 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Pathetic? | 08:47 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So how to go from now? | 08:47 |
| Mister_Magister | noone cares anyway | 08:48 |
| Mister_Magister | literalyl amount of people that use ports is so marginal | 08:48 |
| Mister_Magister | unless its big unofficial port like fxtec or the… | 08:48 |
| Mister_Magister | pinephone | 08:48 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I see | 08:49 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Pinephone looks like it uses cameras from the area when they first came up | 08:49 |
| Mister_Magister | you can go and fix/update anbox | 08:49 |
| Mister_Magister | make it work on ports | 08:49 |
| Mister_Magister | noone's stoping you | 08:49 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Otherwise nice device. | 08:49 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I consider the investment | 08:50 |
| Mister_Magister | pinephone and pine* devices are just for devs to have fun | 08:50 |
| Mister_Magister | not really for day-to-day use | 08:50 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Lots of things here look as of they are about to fall apart | 08:50 |
| Mister_Magister | welcome to sailfishos | 08:50 |
| Mister_Magister | make yourself comfortable | 08:50 |
| Nico[m] | How would you look behind the curtain, if it wasn't falling apart? That would be boring! | 08:51 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So Sailfish is essentially just usable on Sony devices and some devices like the fxtec and Gemini and there without Android support | 08:51 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: there's simple thing | 08:51 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Why putting up curtains in the first place? | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | if you want to use android go use android | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | sfos isn't your place | 08:52 |
| abranson | hehe. you're a happy bunch. | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | if you want to use sfos, use sfos without android | 08:52 |
| Nico[m] | Well, there are more devices that run SailfishOS, than run iOS. | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | people comming to sfos and wanting android are just wrong in first place | 08:52 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I am here to avoid Android as an operating system. | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | you came here for sfos, not android | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | want android then use androdi | 08:52 |
| Nico[m] | I don't see why you would complain about sfos then :D | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: then don't care about android support | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | and use sfos apps only | 08:52 |
| abranson | nah, lots of people want to use something else, but need one or two android apps | 08:52 |
| Mister_Magister | like i do | 08:52 |
| abranson | that's what it's for | 08:52 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Yes | 08:53 |
| Mister_Magister | and thats still wrong | 08:53 |
| ShalokShalom51 | As I did on Blackberry | 08:53 |
| Mister_Magister | some people use sfos as android app launcher | 08:53 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Wrong is subjective | 08:53 |
| abranson | to reduce the 'app gap' that is used to enforce the duopoly :) | 08:53 |
| Mister_Magister | i'm still about using sfos apps only | 08:53 |
| Mister_Magister | and nothing is stopping you with having 2 devices | 08:53 |
| abranson | we need to tempt people easily over from android and ios, and we won't do that with dogma and sacrifice | 08:53 |
| Mister_Magister | if you use android device more,, then go use android | 08:54 |
| ShalokShalom51 | You are just trying to hide, that Android support is broken, and that because the project is probably attracting to less support, I assume | 08:54 |
| Nico[m] | I'm mostly about using Sailfish apps as much as possible, but if it isn't, it is nice to have android compat :3 | 08:54 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: not really | 08:54 |
| Mister_Magister | i'm pissed off about people coming like "android apps where" | 08:54 |
| Mister_Magister | not here, here is sfos | 08:54 |
| Mister_Magister | use sfos apps and support sfos devs | 08:54 |
| abranson | the android app support is working better than it ever has. it's very well integrated into the host OS. | 08:54 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I was eagerly happy, to see Android support, and I came before I knew that | 08:54 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: is speaking truth | 08:54 |
| Mister_Magister | also abranson why the hecc shaders fail to link if i leave app :< | 08:55 |
| abranson | but native sfos apps are always better | 08:55 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: thats exactly wrong thinking | 08:55 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I can also dual boot | 08:55 |
| abranson | Mister_Magister: no idea. never done shaders. | 08:55 |
| Mister_Magister | :< | 08:55 |
| ShalokShalom51 | "I came here before I knew about it" | 08:55 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So I was interested without Android support | 08:56 |
| Mister_Magister | just don't focus on android support, if you want some android apps use second phone | 08:56 |
| abranson | the main drawback with sfos right now is the old qt, but that doesn't really impact end users very much. it'll get sorted out eventually. | 08:56 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: not only old qt | 08:56 |
| Mister_Magister | old everything | 08:56 |
| ShalokShalom51 | And let me think for myself ;) | 08:56 |
| Nico[m] | <ShalokShalom51 "And let me think for myself ;)"> No | 08:56 |
| abranson | that was more of an argument when gcc etc were old. it's much less so now. | 08:56 |
| abranson | gecko too is a lot less old than it was | 08:56 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: there are many other libs old too | 08:56 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Abranson: As a packager, I can tell you this is also my biggest concern | 08:57 |
| Mister_Magister | preventing from building fun things | 08:57 |
| Nico[m] | gcc still does not support C++23 D: | 08:57 |
| abranson | not as many as you're implying | 08:57 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: thats true | 08:57 |
| Mister_Magister | more like specific cases | 08:57 |
| ShalokShalom51 | But Gecko and gcc had been old for other reasons | 08:57 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Qt is about licensing | 08:57 |
| abranson | and they're now both quite recent | 08:57 |
| abranson | yup | 08:57 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So this wont stop as easy | 08:57 |
| abranson | it's slowly getting sorted. it's been a problem for a long time. | 08:58 |
| ShalokShalom51 | And I see no interest in changing this | 08:58 |
| Mister_Magister | *cough* opensourcing anything *cough* | 08:58 |
| Nico[m] | Qt5.6 is a big pain point, maybe one day it will get solved .-. | 08:58 |
| Mister_Magister | past years jolla added more closed source code than opensourced anything | 08:58 |
| Mister_Magister | its evolving | 08:58 |
| Mister_Magister | just backwards | 08:58 |
| abranson | rubbish | 08:58 |
| abranson | all of the sandboxing stuff is open source | 08:58 |
| Nico[m] | Mister_Magister: Opensourcing does not fix the licensing issues | 08:58 |
| Mister_Magister | *cough* fingerprint *cough* | 08:59 |
| ShalokShalom51 | I dont care about the new qt license | 08:59 |
| Mister_Magister | Nico[m]: opensourcing is separate issue | 08:59 |
| abranson | i wish you'd give the rhetoric a rest. it really misrepresents thing to new people. | 08:59 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So do others, so it does change this issue | 08:59 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: like misrepresenting 3.0 changes? | 08:59 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Like? | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | jolla released 3.0 with like tons of changes but update had like 10% of it xD | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | and later argued "they are to come" | 09:00 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Nemo is not a Sailfish oriented project anymore | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | which was massive misinformation | 09:00 |
| ShalokShalom51 | They moved on because of Qt | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: because sfos is old | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | the mer base | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | is ancient | 09:00 |
| Mister_Magister | i suggested moving to opensuse base myself | 09:01 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So that is not the future of sfos | 09:01 |
| Mister_Magister | it is though | 09:01 |
| abranson | ok, there's not a lot of rational conversation left in there. i'm off. | 09:01 |
| Mister_Magister | abranson: for you | 09:01 |
| Mister_Magister | for users its very rational | 09:01 |
| Nico[m] | abranson: See ya :3 | 09:01 |
| Mister_Magister | if we move it to new base on nemo we will overcome every sfos downside | 09:01 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Not for me | 09:01 |
| * Nico[m] is leaving as well | 09:01 | |
| ShalokShalom51 | If? | 09:02 |
| Mister_Magister | moving nemo to new base is not done yet | 09:02 |
| Mister_Magister | i think | 09:02 |
| Mister_Magister | quite a lot of work | 09:02 |
| ShalokShalom51 | That seems like the community has issues to find common ground | 09:02 |
| Mister_Magister | not really | 09:02 |
| Thaodan | Maybe move to #sailfishos.. | 09:02 |
| ShalokShalom51 | At a certain point, the issues to tackle, become bigger and bigger | 09:03 |
| Thaodan | Also PRs are welcome | 09:03 |
| ShalokShalom51 | And the available pool of developers, who are ready to invest thousands of hours into a project, that is facing its silent death, becomes smaller too. | 09:04 |
| Mister_Magister | ^ | 09:04 |
| Mister_Magister | i can talk about sfos wrongdoings for hours | 09:04 |
| Mister_Magister | and not only me | 09:04 |
| Mister_Magister | like if you sit in this project for some time now you can see devs just pissed off leaving | 09:06 |
| Thaodan | ShalokShalom51: never heard more bulshit but I guess that my que | 09:07 |
| Mister_Magister | Thaodan: he is right you know | 09:07 |
| Mister_Magister | anyone can see that | 09:07 |
| Thaodan | Not really as you can see on git we are quite actice | 09:08 |
| Thaodan | *active | 09:08 |
| Mister_Magister | maybe you | 09:08 |
| Mister_Magister | but there been multiple devs who left afte being pissed off | 09:08 |
| Thaodan | Except me of course, I need more coffee first | 09:08 |
| Mister_Magister | at old qt | 09:08 |
| Mister_Magister | or not opensourcing | 09:08 |
| Mister_Magister | or other old packages | 09:08 |
| Mister_Magister | or wrong jolla decisions | 09:08 |
| Nico[m] | Git is quite active and the recent updates updated a lot of stuff and brought new features. So a lot of this doom messaging is simply wrong | 09:09 |
| Mister_Magister | new features and 5yo design decisions forced by russians because now jolla does everything russians want | 09:09 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Jolla is alive and the community looks like its falling apart | 09:09 |
| Nico[m] | Yes, the open-sourcing part is still an issue, I would love it, if everything was open, but this hasn't changed in years | 09:09 |
| Mister_Magister | ShalokShalom51: its not about jolla being alive | 09:10 |
| Mister_Magister | its about how its staying alive | 09:10 |
| ShalokShalom51 | So I think Jolla is taking more healthy decisions than this community, from that aspect :) | 09:10 |
| Mister_Magister | by doing terrible ideas comming from russians | 09:10 |
| Mister_Magister | but they can't do anything about that because they pay the bills | 09:10 |
| ShalokShalom51 | Better than doing nothing *shrug* | 09:10 |
| *** vgtw_ is now known as vgtw | 11:59 | |
| *** JacekJag- is now known as JacekJagosz | 20:41 | |
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