Thursday, 2023-06-22

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flypigGood morning!06:55
ViGeGood Morning!06:57
rainemakGood morning!06:59
ViGe#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 202307:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Jun 22 07:00:03 2023 UTC. The chair is ViGe. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:00
ViGe#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:00
ViGeI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.07:00
ViGe#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:00
poetaster#info poetaster community07:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today07:00
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla07:00
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, community07:00
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla07:00
karry#info Lukáš Karas, community07:01
poetasterlet's not think in adverserial terms :)07:04
ViGe#topic User space low memory killer (5-10 min -- asked by karry)07:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "User space low memory killer (5-10 min -- asked by karry) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:05
ViGe#info <karry> Many users, including me, are not satisfied with current behavior of low-memory-killer kernel module.07:05
ViGe#info <karry> Even Android moved from kernel module to more flexible user-space lmkd.07:05
ViGe#info <karry> I'm not saying that it would solve all memory related issues, but some flexibility would help here.07:05
ViGe#info <karry> Is there any plan to move to user space implementation for SFOS? What implementation?07:05
ViGe#info <karry> lmkd from android, systemd-oomd, facebook's lmk or other implementation?07:05
ViGe#info <karry> Is there something where community may help?07:05
ViGe#info <Jolla> We are investigating possible solutions.07:05
ViGe#info <Jolla> It's worth noting that because of the different adaptations and kernel versions, different devices may need different approaches.07:05
flypigkarry, could you briefly explain the benefits of switching? Is it a case of the user-space approach being more user-configurable?07:07
ViGesledges probably knows more about this topic, so you might want to share some insight?07:08
sledgesin 4.4.0 we have disabled lmkd that was inside Android AppSupport container07:08
sledgesthis greatly improved app killing management especially on Xperia 10 II07:08
sledgesbefore that, all android apps would still be running due to wrong oom score set by appsupport's lmkd07:09
sledgesleaving less and less memory slice for native apps07:09
karryexactly, user space approcach may provide better configurability. right now, kernel lowmemorykiller is able to kill multiple apps in one round...07:09
sledgeswe also had issues where native browser is never killed, this was also fixed in 4.4.007:10 is able to kill music player playing the background with few megs of memory...07:10
rinigussledges: that lmkd disabling was done on each port separately, right?07:10
sledgeswas done in appsupport once and for all07:11
sledgesexcept older devices where older appsupport runs07:11
rinigussledges: thanks! ok if it is regarding appsupport then no diff for community ports07:12
karrywhat are the aspects that require different approaches on different devices?07:12
ViGekarry: I would think kernel version and different amount of RAM07:12
poetasterhaving a 6GB device (Rephone, piggz port), I noticed that RAM pressure was often not the cause of issues I had assumed. Browser for instance. It's not low memory.07:14
poetasternot to see it's not 'memory' writ large.07:14
ViGe#info <sledges> in 4.4.0 we have disabled lmkd that was inside Android AppSupport container07:14
ViGelet's move on to next topic07:15
ViGe#topic python3-sympy, python3-mpmath (10-15 min -- asked by poetaster)07:15
*** sailbot changes topic to "python3-sympy, python3-mpmath (10-15 min -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:15
ViGe#info <poetaster> Is it possible for these to allowed in harbour? I alone have 3 apps using them and packaging for harbour is a real pita.07:15
ViGe#info <poetaster> sympy is also quite large (end up with 10+mb rpm).07:15
ViGe#info <poetaster> With @nephros help I have them in chum which is nice, but as with Jollas efforts for PIL, having packaged solution is not just much more convenient, but more sustainable.07:15
ViGe#info <Jolla> Short answer: Not in the near future07:15
ViGe#info <Jolla> Longer answer:07:15
ViGe#info <Jolla> While having community packaging these certainly help, there is still substantial amount of work left, especially when you consider future maintenance.07:15
ViGe#info <Jolla> Therefore, we must consider carefully each package, before committing into maintaining it.07:15
poetasterYes, that's clear. Sympy is non-trivial.07:16
poetasterI'll try to improve the state in obs, aiming at the simplicity of a submodule.07:18
flypigI totally understand the caution about adding new packages. But poetaster's maths apps are really great: they offer really nice functionality :)07:18
flypigpoetaster, do you have to make changes to the packages to get them to work? Or are they equivalent to a pip install from the your packages identically to a pip installed version?07:20
flypig(hopefully you can decipher that!)07:20
poetasterthe main reason I asked is that installs for harbour, I'm still using the evil: #python3 install --root=%{buildroot} --prefix=%{_datadir}/%{name}/07:21
poetasterIs pip install actually allowed in harbour?07:22
ViGeI wouldn't call that evil. That's just the way it has to be in order to get them into harbour.07:22
poetasterah, ok. It makes doing rapid releases very, very much less than rapid.07:22
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community07:23
dcalisteSorry to be late.07:23
poetasterI wonder, if the github actions builds would make it into harbour?07:23
flypigI was thinking the same question poetaster. I suppose harbour only allows system python packages. You can't do a virtual environment or anything like that.07:23
poetasterHmm. I'm using actions to build on github, so maybe that's my short term solution. I just have very short release cycles at the moment and it kills my productivity.07:24
ViGeWell there's nothing in Harbour that should prevent you from using github builds. Then again, we don't support that, so you get to keep both pieces every time something breaks.07:26
poetasterViGe, I'm the owner of the issue queue :)07:26
poetasterOk, so I'll try that on the next run and report in the forum.07:27
ViGeMaybe it's time to move on07:28
poetasterOk, I have a roadmap. thanks!07:28
ViGe#topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla)07:28
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:28
ViGe#info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?07:29
poetasteroh, just a question if that url update on the geoservices plugin actually worked?07:31
ViGepoetaster: I had to go back to the PR to remind me of what we discussed there... It seems I'm still waiting for your decision on what you are about to do ;) I haven't tried the new URLs07:34
dcalisteFor reference this is (I guess)07:35
ViGeyes, that's the one07:35
poetasterah, ok. I thought, see if we get minimal functioning OSM and then work on a minimal backport ... 5.8 is so far from 5.4 that a backport per se is not doable. I did up to 5.6 and realized the license issues wouldn't let me get further.07:36
ViGepoetaster: could you squash the commits in the PR? I could then test it and if it works we could merge it. We would at least have something that works.07:37
poetasterit's easier to squash on merge, isn't it? but, sure.07:38
ViGeNo it's really not07:38
ViGeLet's move on07:38
ViGe#topic General discussion (20 min)07:38
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:38
sledgesmore on the OOM topic: I refreshed my memory (if you pardon the pun) -- appsupport's lmkd used to set oom score in such way that all android apps get killed very aggressively07:40
sledgesto such extent that they would even not launch anymore (get killed on startup)07:40
sledgesnative apps wouldn't get killed as a result07:40
sledgesso all that was fixed since 4.4.007:41
sledgesalso about e.g. facebook's oom:07:41
sledgesThaodan found that we need cgroups2 for it, which we don't use at the moment iirc:
ViGeSo that's not suitable for us, at least not at the moment07:43
poetasterViGe, commits squashed.07:47
ViGepoetaster: thanks! I can't really promise when I have time to test it. Perhaps you can suggest a good way to test? i.e good test application?07:48
poetasterI was using the qt test app but I was working on one ... I'll dig it up.07:52
poetaster was one I wanted to fix.07:53
ViGethat looks interesting07:55
ViGe#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)07:58
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)"07:58
ViGeThe summer vacations are upon us, so there will be a gap between the meetings now.07:58
ViGeProposing Thursday 17th August at 07:00am UTC.07:58
flypig_Hope you all have a wonderful break!07:59
poetasteryes, have fun!08:00
ViGepersonally, I'm planning to go somewhere where there isn't any kind of mobile network coverage, so I'm sure it will be wonderful :)08:01
dcalisteEnjoy the summer (or winter) period.08:01
ViGeI don't see anyone complaining, so:08:03
ViGe#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 17th August 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-08-17T0700Z08:03
ViGeThanks for the meeting everyone!08:03
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Jun 22 08:03:20 2023 UTC.08:03
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 22nd June 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:03
flypig_Thank you ViGe everying!08:03
poetasterThanks, and ahoi!08:03
flypig_Ja hyvää Juhannusta!08:03
rainemakHyvää juhannusta!08:03
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 17th August 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:07
Crabsterthx #?08:09
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