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| *** amccarthy_ is now known as amccarthy | 02:57 | |
| Crabster | morning | 06:54 |
|---|---|---|
| flypig | Good morning! | 06:55 |
| ViGe | Good Morning! | 06:57 |
| poetaster | Morning! | 06:58 |
| rainemak | Good morning! | 06:59 |
| ViGe | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023 | 07:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Jun 22 07:00:03 2023 UTC. The chair is ViGe. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:00 | |
| ViGe | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 07:00 |
| ViGe | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-june-2023/15830 | 07:00 |
| ViGe | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 07:00 |
| ViGe | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 07:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:00 | |
| poetaster | #info poetaster community | 07:00 |
| ViGe | #info Ville Nummela, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today | 07:00 |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla | 07:00 |
| flypig | #info David Llewellyn-Jones, community | 07:00 |
| sledges | #info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla | 07:00 |
| karry | #info Lukáš Karas, community | 07:01 |
| ViGe | 3-3 | 07:04 |
| poetaster | let's not think in adverserial terms :) | 07:04 |
| ViGe | #topic User space low memory killer (5-10 min -- asked by karry) | 07:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "User space low memory killer (5-10 min -- asked by karry) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:05 | |
| ViGe | #info <karry> Many users, including me, are not satisfied with current behavior of low-memory-killer kernel module. | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <karry> Even Android moved from kernel module to more flexible user-space lmkd. | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <karry> I'm not saying that it would solve all memory related issues, but some flexibility would help here. | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <karry> Is there any plan to move to user space implementation for SFOS? What implementation? | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <karry> lmkd from android, systemd-oomd, facebook's lmk or other implementation? | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <karry> Is there something where community may help? | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <Jolla> We are investigating possible solutions. | 07:05 |
| ViGe | #info <Jolla> It's worth noting that because of the different adaptations and kernel versions, different devices may need different approaches. | 07:05 |
| flypig | karry, could you briefly explain the benefits of switching? Is it a case of the user-space approach being more user-configurable? | 07:07 |
| ViGe | sledges probably knows more about this topic, so you might want to share some insight? | 07:08 |
| sledges | in 4.4.0 we have disabled lmkd that was inside Android AppSupport container | 07:08 |
| sledges | this greatly improved app killing management especially on Xperia 10 II | 07:08 |
| sledges | before that, all android apps would still be running due to wrong oom score set by appsupport's lmkd | 07:09 |
| sledges | leaving less and less memory slice for native apps | 07:09 |
| karry | exactly, user space approcach may provide better configurability. right now, kernel lowmemorykiller is able to kill multiple apps in one round... | 07:09 |
| sledges | we also had issues where native browser is never killed, this was also fixed in 4.4.0 | 07:10 |
| karry | ...it is able to kill music player playing the background with few megs of memory... | 07:10 |
| rinigus | sledges: that lmkd disabling was done on each port separately, right? | 07:10 |
| sledges | was done in appsupport once and for all | 07:11 |
| sledges | except older devices where older appsupport runs | 07:11 |
| rinigus | sledges: thanks! ok if it is regarding appsupport then no diff for community ports | 07:12 |
| karry | what are the aspects that require different approaches on different devices? | 07:12 |
| ViGe | karry: I would think kernel version and different amount of RAM | 07:12 |
| poetaster | having a 6GB device (Rephone, piggz port), I noticed that RAM pressure was often not the cause of issues I had assumed. Browser for instance. It's not low memory. | 07:14 |
| poetaster | not to see it's not 'memory' writ large. | 07:14 |
| ViGe | #info <sledges> in 4.4.0 we have disabled lmkd that was inside Android AppSupport container | 07:14 |
| ViGe | let's move on to next topic | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #topic python3-sympy, python3-mpmath (10-15 min -- asked by poetaster) | 07:15 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "python3-sympy, python3-mpmath (10-15 min -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:15 | |
| ViGe | #info <poetaster> Is it possible for these to allowed in harbour? I alone have 3 apps using them and packaging for harbour is a real pita. | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #info <poetaster> sympy is also quite large (end up with 10+mb rpm). | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #info <poetaster> With @nephros help I have them in chum which is nice, but as with Jollas efforts for PIL, having packaged solution is not just much more convenient, but more sustainable. | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #info <Jolla> Short answer: Not in the near future | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #info <Jolla> Longer answer: | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #info <Jolla> While having community packaging these certainly help, there is still substantial amount of work left, especially when you consider future maintenance. | 07:15 |
| ViGe | #info <Jolla> Therefore, we must consider carefully each package, before committing into maintaining it. | 07:15 |
| poetaster | Yes, that's clear. Sympy is non-trivial. | 07:16 |
| poetaster | I'll try to improve the state in obs, aiming at the simplicity of a submodule. | 07:18 |
| flypig | I totally understand the caution about adding new packages. But poetaster's maths apps are really great: they offer really nice functionality :) | 07:18 |
| flypig | poetaster, do you have to make changes to the packages to get them to work? Or are they equivalent to a pip install from the your packages identically to a pip installed version? | 07:20 |
| flypig | (hopefully you can decipher that!) | 07:20 |
| poetaster | the main reason I asked is that installs for harbour, I'm still using the evil: #python3 setup.py install --root=%{buildroot} --prefix=%{_datadir}/%{name}/ | 07:21 |
| poetaster | Is pip install actually allowed in harbour? | 07:22 |
| ViGe | I wouldn't call that evil. That's just the way it has to be in order to get them into harbour. | 07:22 |
| poetaster | ah, ok. It makes doing rapid releases very, very much less than rapid. | 07:22 |
| dcaliste | #info Damien Caliste, community | 07:23 |
| dcaliste | Sorry to be late. | 07:23 |
| poetaster | I wonder, if the github actions builds would make it into harbour? | 07:23 |
| flypig | I was thinking the same question poetaster. I suppose harbour only allows system python packages. You can't do a virtual environment or anything like that. | 07:23 |
| poetaster | Hmm. I'm using actions to build on github, so maybe that's my short term solution. I just have very short release cycles at the moment and it kills my productivity. | 07:24 |
| ViGe | Well there's nothing in Harbour that should prevent you from using github builds. Then again, we don't support that, so you get to keep both pieces every time something breaks. | 07:26 |
| poetaster | ViGe, I'm the owner of the issue queue :) | 07:26 |
| poetaster | Ok, so I'll try that on the next run and report in the forum. | 07:27 |
| ViGe | Maybe it's time to move on | 07:28 |
| poetaster | Ok, I have a roadmap. thanks! | 07:28 |
| ViGe | #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla) | 07:28 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:28 | |
| ViGe | #info <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss? | 07:29 |
| poetaster | oh, just a question if that url update on the geoservices plugin actually worked? | 07:31 |
| ViGe | poetaster: I had to go back to the PR to remind me of what we discussed there... It seems I'm still waiting for your decision on what you are about to do ;) I haven't tried the new URLs | 07:34 |
| dcaliste | For reference this is https://github.com/sailfishos/qtlocation/pull/2 (I guess) | 07:35 |
| ViGe | yes, that's the one | 07:35 |
| poetaster | ah, ok. I thought, see if we get minimal functioning OSM and then work on a minimal backport ... 5.8 is so far from 5.4 that a backport per se is not doable. I did up to 5.6 and realized the license issues wouldn't let me get further. | 07:36 |
| ViGe | poetaster: could you squash the commits in the PR? I could then test it and if it works we could merge it. We would at least have something that works. | 07:37 |
| poetaster | it's easier to squash on merge, isn't it? but, sure. | 07:38 |
| ViGe | No it's really not | 07:38 |
| poetaster | Okidoke. | 07:38 |
| ViGe | Let's move on | 07:38 |
| ViGe | #topic General discussion (20 min) | 07:38 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (20 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:38 | |
| sledges | more on the OOM topic: I refreshed my memory (if you pardon the pun) -- appsupport's lmkd used to set oom score in such way that all android apps get killed very aggressively | 07:40 |
| sledges | to such extent that they would even not launch anymore (get killed on startup) | 07:40 |
| sledges | native apps wouldn't get killed as a result | 07:40 |
| sledges | so all that was fixed since 4.4.0 | 07:41 |
| sledges | also about e.g. facebook's oom: | 07:41 |
| sledges | Thaodan found that we need cgroups2 for it, which we don't use at the moment iirc: https://github.com/facebookincubator/oomd/blob/main/docs/production_setup.md#cgroup2 | 07:42 |
| ViGe | So that's not suitable for us, at least not at the moment | 07:43 |
| sledges | right | 07:43 |
| poetaster | ViGe, commits squashed. | 07:47 |
| ViGe | poetaster: thanks! I can't really promise when I have time to test it. Perhaps you can suggest a good way to test? i.e good test application? | 07:48 |
| poetaster | I was using the qt test app but I was working on one ... I'll dig it up. | 07:52 |
| ViGe | thanks | 07:53 |
| poetaster | https://openrepos.net/content/rikujolla/draft-map was one I wanted to fix. | 07:53 |
| ViGe | that looks interesting | 07:55 |
| poetaster | indeed. | 07:55 |
| ViGe | #topic Next meeting time and date (5 min) | 07:58 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 22nd June 2023)" | 07:58 | |
| ViGe | The summer vacations are upon us, so there will be a gap between the meetings now. | 07:58 |
| ViGe | Proposing Thursday 17th August at 07:00am UTC. | 07:58 |
| flypig_ | Hope you all have a wonderful break! | 07:59 |
| poetaster | yes, have fun! | 08:00 |
| ViGe | personally, I'm planning to go somewhere where there isn't any kind of mobile network coverage, so I'm sure it will be wonderful :) | 08:01 |
| dcaliste | Enjoy the summer (or winter) period. | 08:01 |
| ViGe | I don't see anyone complaining, so: | 08:03 |
| ViGe | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 17th August 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-08-17T0700Z | 08:03 |
| ViGe | Thanks for the meeting everyone! | 08:03 |
| ViGe | #endmeeting | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Jun 22 08:03:20 2023 UTC. | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-06-22-07.00.html | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-06-22-07.00.txt | 08:03 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2023/sailfishos-meeting.2023-06-22-07.00.log.html | 08:03 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 22nd June 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-22nd-june-2023/15830" | 08:03 | |
| flypig_ | Thank you ViGe everying! | 08:03 |
| poetaster | Thanks, and ahoi! | 08:03 |
| flypig_ | Ja hyvää Juhannusta! | 08:03 |
| rainemak | Hyvää juhannusta! | 08:03 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 17th August 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-17th-august-2023/15962" | 08:07 | |
| Crabster | thx #? | 08:09 |
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