Thursday, 2023-09-28

*** rainemak__ is now known as rainemak06:54
ExTechOpGood morning, everyone!06:59
rainemakGood morning07:00
rainemak#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 202307:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Sep 28 07:00:06 2023 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:00
rainemak#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:00
rainemakI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.07:00
rainemak#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:00
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today07:01
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community07:01
poetaster#info @poetaster, Mark Washeim, community07:01
Crabster#info Crabster - lurker07:02
rainemakpoetaster, thank you for your topic07:02
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community07:03
poetasterrainemak, no thanks needed!07:04
rainemakhopefully thigg is able to join as he raised a good topic as well07:05
rainemaklet's start with 1st topic07:05
rainemak#topic Notification popups in lipstick (10mins -- asked by thigg)07:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "Notification popups in lipstick (10mins -- asked by thigg) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> Sometimes (especially when using android apps)07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> notifications are hiding other ui elements (forum: Notifications hiding buttons).07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> My idea to handle this was to mute notifications for some time (30s) if the07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> notification is swiped to the left. After 30s a notification is shown that07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> notifications are enabled again and the notifications from the queue are shown.07:05
rainemak#info <thigg>07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> This looks quite simple to implement at
rainemak#info <thigg> by returning early if the current time is <= the time in a muted_until value07:05
rainemak#info <thigg> and patching the notification popup Notifications hiding buttons - #6 by thigg.07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> When the notifications are muted, a timer is started which fires a “notifications07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> enabled” notification after the mute period and this would trigger the appearance07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> of all other notifications. And probably a dbus interface for lipstick to set muted_until07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> from the popup.07:06
rainemak#info <thigg>07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> Because modifications to lipstick are hard (impossible?) to deliver to users,07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> collaboration with jolla would be helpful. At least the dbus- interface to set07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> muted_until would have to be done by jolla.07:06
rainemak#info <thigg>07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> I’d like to discuss the problem, this proposed workaround and if jolla is willing to07:06
rainemak#info <thigg> collaborate on this (or even do it on their own)07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Thank you thigg! This is a very good and interesting topic. This is indeed07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> something occasionally annoys users. One idea that was brought up could be07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> using similar adaptive mechanisms that is used for display dimming. For example,07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> it could be so that first notification that is dismissed by swipe could suppress07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> notification queue for 5sec, next new notification that is dismissed by swipe07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> would prolong suppress to 10sec, and so on.07:06
rainemak#info <Jolla>07:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> Related to this, one problematic app category is navigation apps as those might start07:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> showing notifications from your route and those might be triggered too frequently.07:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> In this kind of scenario, one might want to have notification suppressed completely07:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> from the app that spams notifications. Worth exploring whether this kind of action07:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> could be visible by default.07:07
rainemakI think there are multitude of aspects that should/could be tackled.07:09
poetastertooter is still somewhat broken where notifications are concerned, but it's good at spamming the notifications queue. It's a bit embarrasing.07:09
rainemakWhat are most cumbersome scenarios when you feel this should be working differently07:10
poetasterrainemak, what I was getting at is that tooter misbehaves and the consequence is that the use get's a flood of notifications.07:12
rainemakI'd vote for easy way to suppress notification completely from an app that send them07:12
poetasterrainemak, yes.07:13
rainemaknot queuing them at all just completely ignoring07:13
rainemakfor some time07:14
dcalisterainemak, do you think that implementing something like the dimming logic can be done in the OS parts only ?07:14
dcalisteDoes it require some changes in jolla-lipstick, or only in lipstick itself ?07:14
rainemakMCE implements that adaptive dimming.07:15
rainemakdcaliste, gut feeling is that this needs to be orchestrated between lipstick-jolla-home and lipstick07:16
rainemakwe run out of time but as we one topic left I extend this one by 5mins07:17
rainemakso 2mins left :-)07:18
rainemakwe have one topic left ^07:18
dcalisteok, so something that community can hardly complete. What about providing a plan for lipstick-jolla-home and discuss it in an issue in lipstick or in a meeting ?07:18
rainemakopening an issue in lipstick sounds like good plan07:18
rainemakdcaliste, would you like to create one?07:19
dcalisteNot necessary myself, maybe thigg who thought more about the issue may see it as a way forward.07:20
rainemakcertainly, that makes sense07:21
rainemakthank you07:21
rainemakIt's time to move on07:21
rainemak#topic Guidance about maintaining an HADK-faq wiki page (5mins -- asked by poetaster)07:21
rainemak#info <poetaster> In the main, a number of porters have mentioned the difficulty in07:21
rainemak#info <poetaster> working on the HADK docs. And ad-hoc etherpad is the present hacking07:21
rainemak#info <poetaster> approach. To get the more structured I created HADK | SailfishOS community07:21
rainemak#info <poetaster> wiki 4 This contains a dump of the etherpad and a first transfer of the faq07:21
*** sailbot changes topic to "Guidance about maintaining an HADK-faq wiki page (5mins -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:21
rainemak#info <poetaster> PDF to a wiki page. This is far from ideal. Is source for the pdf available07:21
rainemak#info <poetaster> or is it a classic ‘word like’ document?07:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> Thank you for asking. Which ad-hoc etherpad you’re referring to? We moved07:22
rainemak#info <Jolla> content to
rainemak#info <Jolla> some time back already. Intention there is that hadk-faq would be used wiki like07:22
rainemak#info <Jolla> and people would create PRs to it.07:22
rainemak#info <Jolla>07:22
rainemak#info <Jolla> HADK is not a word document rather a set of rst from which pdf is generated.07:22
poetasterThe etherpad I'm refering to is: which one of the porters said was 'go to' currently.07:23
poetasterok, cool I know the origins now. that helps a lot.07:23
rainemakafter piratepad was closed we created that
rainemakmal would probably recall time frame when above happened but maybe he's not around07:25
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, community, latecomer07:26
poetasterrainemak, but that is not the source of:
rainemakflypig, lurker :-) and /me joking07:26
flypigI've been lurking for a bit; there's never a good time to throw in a random #info :)07:27
rainemakpoetaster, nope. That was created to complement the pdf07:27
poetasterrainemak, ok, clear. thanks.07:28
rainemakand actually hadk-faq has uses similar rst format as hadk pdf itself07:28
rainemakalright, thank you07:28
rainemakLet's move on07:28
flypigJust to be clear: are the rst for the pdf public?07:28
rainemakhadk repository itself is closed but is rst based07:29
flypigGot it; thanks!07:29
rainemak#topic Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla)07:30
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (10 mins -- asked by jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:30
rainemak#info <Jolla> Any other open PRs to discuss?07:30
flypigThanks for merging direc85's PR since the last meeting.07:30
flypigThat's the one :) It worked nicely.07:32
dcalisteMaybe still recent, but this one from attah : ?07:35
dcalisteOr this one from thigg in the documentation : ?07:36
flypigIt's nice that updating cairo allows a patch to be dropped.07:36
rainemakwe should build sailfish core against new cairo07:36
rainemakjust to be sure07:37
dcalisterainemak, indeed, good point for full rebuild and check. They have a stable API, so nothing should break, but just to be sure ;)07:38
rainemakdcaliste, merged thigg's PR07:39
dcalisteThanks for him.07:39
flypigNice; this process really works :D07:39
rainemakand this can be adhoc linking as well07:40
rainemak#topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)07:41
*** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:41
rainemak#topic Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung)07:41
rainemak#info <pherjung> Untracked bug reports07:41
rainemak#info <Jolla> The Community Bug Coordination Team have done a superb job once again this fortnight.07:41
rainemak#info <Jolla> 10 high quality bugs reported. Most of them are/will be recorded internally.07:41
*** sailbot changes topic to "Untracked bug reports (5 min -- asked by pherjung) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:41
rainemak#info <Jolla> Tracker flags are missing from the forum.07:41
poetasterwhat are Tracker flags?07:44
rainemaktracked == tracker :-)07:44
poetasterah, got ya. from internal system to public forum.07:45
rainemakin practice it means that there's a link in internal system to public forum07:45
rainemakbut those tracked flags are added manually07:46
rainemakLet's move on to the general discussion.07:46
rainemak#topic General discussion (5 min)07:46
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:46
rainemakflypig, would you like to give an update regarding esr91 ?07:46
flypigOh, sure!07:47
rainemakdid yet read number 4207:47
flypigThe build has reached the linking stage (as of today it actually links in fact!). So it's getting there.07:47
rainemakfrom diary07:47
ExTechOpOnce again, are there any news that can be shared about Jolla's funding and/or ownership status?07:48
rainemakno comments07:48
rainemakflypig, seems that you hit the linker... that's nice07:49
ExTechOprainemak :-(07:51
flypigSorry, I'm on a train, poor connectivity through the tunnels!07:51
poetasterflaypig, 42 is a nice post ... non-virtual thunk espcially.07:51
flypigThis is the first time I heard about thunks!07:52
dcalisteflypig, great achievement that you reach the creation of the library. A huge step forward.07:52
poetasterflypig, me too!07:52
flypigThanks dcaliste. It won't work of course :)07:52
Nicoflypig: you are on a train, you should hear plenty of thunks :p07:52
flypigHaha! That's true!07:53
flypigI want to ask another quick question: would Jolla be interested in joining a Linux-on-Mobile stand at FOSDEM 2024? Or is this for a proper question at the next meeting?07:53
dcalisteflypig, of course, but already very good. I'm finishing moving code in QMF from Qcop to QDBus. I've finished the compilation part. I'm not expecting it to work either !07:54
flypigdcaliste, amazing! Can you post a link please?07:54
flypigI don't know Qcop. Is it similar to QDBus?07:54
dcalisteQMF thingies:
flypigThat looks like a lot of work.07:55
dcalisteQcop was the KDE (or Qt) initial implementation for IPC before Gnome reached Freedesktop first with DBus and then it was widely adopted.07:55
rainemakI like the discussion around source code :-)07:55
flypig(for the minutes)07:56
rainemakas discussion is on going, let's give 2mins more for this07:56
rainemakscheduling next meeting doesn't take that long07:56
flypigWhat will the change allow in practice dcaliste? An updated QMF on Sailfish?07:57
flypigQMF = the underlying email system, right?07:57
rainemak#info <dcaliste> Switching QCop to D-Bus for IPC ^07:58
rainemakqt messaging framework07:58
poetasterIPC is inter process or?07:58
dcalisteWell, in practice, it is more a modernisation of the QMF code. And a slight reduction of its code base, now using Qt DBus implementation for inter process.07:58
rainemakinter process communication07:58
dcalisteYes, IPC means inter-process communication and QMF stands for Qt Messagung Framework. It's the email daemon and library in Sailfish OS.07:59
rainemak#topic Next meeting time and date (1 min)07:59
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (1 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 28th Sep 2023)"07:59
rainemakProposing Thursday 12th October at 07:00am UTC.07:59
flypigStill before the clocks change.07:59
rainemak#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC: 2023-10-12T0700Z07:59
rainemakThank you everyone for the meeting!07:59
ExTechOpThank you everyone!08:00
poetasterThanks everyone!08:00
flypigThanks rainemak, everyone!08:00
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Sep 28 08:00:22 2023 UTC.08:00
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th September 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:00
dcalistethank you everyone, enjoy the end of the week.08:00
dcalisteThere are two IPC channels in the mailer daemon at the moment. One when the email application (or any client) is asking the mail daemon to fetch emails (or any server related operation), listening for signals (like attachment downloaded). And another IPC channel used by the mail storage to notify any other instance of the storage that something has been done by one instance.08:03
poetasterok, so also used to generate notifications?08:04
dcalisteYes, there is a specific QMF plugin ( that is used to listen to the maileer daemon signals and translate them into system notifications.08:06
poetasterThanks! I need to identify some best practices since I need to fix tooters behaviour.08:07
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 12th October 2023 at 07:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"08:11

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