| rainemak | good morning! | 07:42 |
|---|---|---|
| Crabster | morning | 07:42 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sailbot | 07:56 | |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | Good morning all! | 07:58 |
| Nico | Good afternoon! :D | 07:59 |
| rainemak | #startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024 | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Meeting started Thu Feb 15 08:00:02 2024 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| sailbot | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic. | 08:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Meeting information and agenda can be found here: | 08:00 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-15th-february-2024/17982 | 08:00 |
| rainemak | I am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive. | 08:00 |
| rainemak | #topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info | 08:00 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:00 | |
| rainemak | #info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today | 08:01 |
| Nico | #Nico, from Barcelona (but in Japan rn). SFOS user, but haven't been active in the community for quite a while | 08:01 |
| dcaliste | Good morning, | 08:02 |
| dcaliste | #info Damien Caliste, community | 08:02 |
| Nico | #info Nico (sorry) | 08:02 |
| ViGe | #info Ville Nummela, community | 08:02 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | #info tuplasuhveli, community | 08:02 |
| Crabster | #info Crabster - lurker | 08:02 |
| rainemak | We have two topics today and some discussion/feedback topics for the general discussion. So, we have good amount of time. | 08:03 |
| rainemak | Let's give a minute for intros. And as usual, it's perfectly fine to come a bit late as well. | 08:04 |
| rainemak | Ok, let's go... | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #topic Ofono Updates (10mins -- asked by piggz) | 08:05 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Ofono Updates (10mins -- asked by piggz) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:05 | |
| Thaodan | #info Björn Bidar - Sailor at Jolla | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> Sailfish uses the Ofono Telephony stack to communicate with modems. | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> The version of Ofono use in Sailfish is quite old, and diverged from | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> the upstream project quite a lot. This was possibly understandable | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> when the upstream looked stagnant, however it seems to have had | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> somewhat of a revival, and has pushed out several release lately. | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> Would it be worth re-basing the Sailfish Ofono and plugins on top of | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> upstream to reduce the divergence and future maintenance? I | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> understand some of the reluctance to use upstream has been around | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> the ell library, can you expand as to why this cant be used, it | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> doesnt seem like a very large lib to include. I have had PRs on | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> sailfish ofono to update it for quite some time, these were created | 08:05 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> by painstakingly cherry-picking each upstream commit that would | 08:06 |
| piggz | morning :) | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> apply against the sailfish version, but the longer the divergence | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> remains, the harder this gets. Upstream has improvements for the | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> quactel modem, many code cleanups and improvements, and maybe useful | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> for other porters. | 08:06 |
| rainemak | jit | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Indeed, Ofono has started to be painful to maintain and we’ve talked | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> doing what’s described here. Just rebasing all our changes on top of | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> upstream, and possibly just starting to use the libell. However, no | 08:06 |
| piggz | yes | 08:06 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> idea yet on the schedule. | 08:06 |
| piggz | ok, thats good to know at leaat | 08:06 |
| piggz | seast | 08:06 |
| piggz | fsck ... least! | 08:06 |
| piggz | for info, i have libell packaged and used in my ofono fork for the PP | 08:07 |
| dcaliste | For reference, I think you have already some rebases done piggz: https://github.com/sailfishos/ofono/pulls | 08:07 |
| dcaliste | Are they still valid ? | 08:07 |
| piggz | those are cherry-picks of commits that would apply ... if it was entired rebased they wouldnt be needed | 08:08 |
| piggz | if switched to libell, things would be much simpler to rebase | 08:08 |
| piggz | here is libell https://github.com/sailfish-on-dontbeevil/ell | 08:08 |
| Thaodan | was it that libel was a replacement for glib info conman and ofono? | 08:09 |
| rainemak | #info <piggz> Here is libell https://github.com/sailfish-on-dontbeevil/ell | 08:09 |
| piggz | something like that yes | 08:09 |
| piggz | the devs i spoke to said the plan was to remove glib ... so rebasing would get even harder in the future | 08:09 |
| Thaodan | sounds like a lot of nih | 08:11 |
| rainemak | timing wise these kind of bigger changes are good to merge after major release (more precisely after branching in OBS) | 08:12 |
| rainemak | there always tend to be corner cases that need to be fixed | 08:12 |
| piggz | rainemak: sure ... i imaging there would be quite a bit of work to do on the jolla side, re-writing all the plugins | 08:12 |
| piggz | Thaodan: at may be nih ... but there may be more to it .. its quite a small lib, intended for small embedded systems iirc | 08:14 |
| rainemak | Good discussion but it's time to move on. | 08:15 |
| dcaliste | Just for ignorant, is ELL this thing : https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/recipe/397464/ ? | 08:15 |
| piggz | this https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/libs/ell/ell.git/tree/ | 08:15 |
| piggz | its a kernel project | 08:15 |
| rainemak | I'll give a moment still | 08:15 |
| Thaodan | yeah it's the same thing | 08:16 |
| dcaliste | Ok, thanks for the pointer. | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #topic Restore Sailfish Weather (5mins -- asked by cquence) | 08:16 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Restore Sailfish Weather (5mins -- asked by cquence) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:16 | |
| rainemak | #info <cquence> Will the native Foreca Weather app be restored in the next | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <cquence> release? Also are there any possibilities to use the native app | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <cquence> with different configurable backends? User will have to provide | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <cquence> their own key/credentials for paid services. | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Foreca Weather app is not restored to the next release. Having means | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> to use different backends is something that we’re thinking as well. | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Community raised yr.no as plausible option and it would a good | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> candidate to check how feasible it’d really be. | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> | 08:16 |
| Thaodan | strange from my pov where the man power at those projects is already quite low | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> If you haven’t yet disabled, you can disable Weather banner from | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Events view from Settings -> Events View -> Install Weather from | 08:16 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Store. | 08:16 |
| dcaliste | During the time the weather component appeared on Github, I start modifying them to allow multiple providers. | 08:17 |
| dcaliste | I'm running with weatherAPI at the moment (whuch has bad forecast, but which is free). | 08:18 |
| dcaliste | It would be nice if the components could be published (again). | 08:18 |
| rainemak | Having possibility for different plugins would be neat | 08:21 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, hopefully soon. | 08:21 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | If I'm not mistaken, GNOME Weather uses yr.no. But it would be nice to give the user an option to choose between different providers | 08:21 |
| dcaliste | Great ! | 08:21 |
| rainemak | I guess this is pretty much covered | 08:22 |
| Thaodan | there's a kde widget too that uses yr.no | 08:23 |
| rainemak | Let's move on. | 08:23 |
| rainemak | #topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) | 08:23 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:23 | |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Any open PRs to discuss? | 08:23 |
| nephros | hello, I'm late. | 08:26 |
| nephros | I don't have a PR yet, but would it be acceptable to file one to package "poppler" private/unstable headers? | 08:26 |
| dcaliste | What would be the purpose ? (not objecting, just curious) | 08:27 |
| nephros | I have a package queued for chum which needs them to build. | 08:28 |
| nephros | See https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler#stable-and-unstable-apis | 08:29 |
| dcaliste | Thanks, I'll read their policy. | 08:29 |
| rainemak | As there are no bug reports today. Let's move to general discussion. | 08:30 |
| nephros | Modified package: https://build.sailfishos.org/package/view_file/home:nephros:devel:qt515:itinerary/poppler/poppler.spec?expand=1 | 08:30 |
| nephros | ok thx. | 08:30 |
| rainemak | #topic General discussion (15 min) | 08:30 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (15 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:30 | |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Few things from our side that we haven’t yet covered. | 08:31 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> The next release, 4.6.0 Sauna, was already featured in the FOSDEM | 08:31 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 2024 on Linux on Mobile stand. You can easily see that the release #info <Jolla> is not far away. Before that we will have translation round and | 08:31 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> inform this separate in the Forum. Stay tuned. | 08:31 |
| rainemak | Target would be to get translations synced during next week then have a time period of a week to contribute translation. Let's see how much winter vacation period affects. | 08:31 |
| dcaliste | Thanks for these planning info, rainemak. Good to know. | 08:33 |
| Nico | Looking forward! | 08:33 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | Ooh, that sounds intriguing! | 08:33 |
| rainemak | Like said above, there will be a separate forum post. | 08:34 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> Second topic, during the community event we had discussions regarding | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> subscription-based pricing model. To continue that discussion, we’d | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> like to ask your thoughts. | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> How much would you be willing to pay from a subscription. Let's think | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> two different models. Both would have software updates done in | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> similar fashion like we did last year (even year 2022). Few major | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> releases plus a few minor updates. Approximately a year ago we had | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> a vote about this in the newsletter. | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-community-news-23rd-february-clat/14752 | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 1) Software updates euros / month ? | 08:35 |
| rainemak | #info <Jolla> 2) Software updates + AppSupport euros / month ? | 08:35 |
| piggz | do we get a qt upgrade with that? :D | 08:36 |
| piggz | (sorry!) | 08:36 |
| Thaodan | thanks for saying it :D | 08:37 |
| piggz | heh | 08:37 |
| nephros | SaaS? (Sauna as a service) | 08:37 |
| rainemak | :-) | 08:37 |
| rainemak | There might be even more models | 08:38 |
| rainemak | Nobody dare to say anything | 08:39 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | 1.) This one is a bit hard to judge, but maybe 1-3 euros per month? 2.) I'd say anything around 5 euros sounds reasonable to me. To be fair, I personally, would be willing to pay up to 10 euros, because I really want Jolla to succeed in the future. | 08:40 |
| rainemak | personally, I'm think something like 1) ~2e/month 2) ~5e/month | 08:40 |
| Nico | I mean, it's hard to decide whether we should reply what would be ideal for us, or what would be sustainable for Jolla :P | 08:41 |
| dcaliste | While we can have live discussions here, it's a question that makes sense to have on the Forum, so more people will see it and discuss it in an async way. | 08:41 |
| nephros | Well, this would mean that users (curently licensees of the SF X Program) would become proper customers right? With Terms Of Service, SLAs etc. | 08:41 |
| rainemak | Nico, more like what's your thought on the pricing | 08:41 |
| dcaliste | Paying monthly may imply having regular updates (date based ?) otherwise, people may feel that they pay for something that is a bit random to come. | 08:42 |
| Crabster | an option for a yearly subscription, perhaps something like how fastmail handle theirs | 08:42 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, everything happens in phases | 08:42 |
| nephros | I like having AAS available, but I don't use it very often. | 08:42 |
| nephros | So I'm not sure I'd subscribe. | 08:42 |
| Thaodan | maybe similar to humble bundle where you can select what to pay starting from a minimum | 08:43 |
| dcaliste | Not saying that I would like to go in the direction of date based releases. Just thinking how it could be received. | 08:43 |
| rainemak | dcaliste, good point | 08:43 |
| Thaodan | I think release cycles have to be figured out how they can be handled | 08:44 |
| Nico | Well; if we keep a similar price to now's model, accounting for inflation, for me it would be something like 15€/year, but I keep my phones for longer than most people, and I don't think that would pay for the staff, etc | 08:44 |
| rainemak | Thaodan, not necessarily | 08:44 |
| Thaodan | since some might take longer | 08:44 |
| nephros | I definitely would subscribe for OBS access though if that will guarantee it will remain available. | 08:44 |
| Nico | I tend to put myself in the place of a poor student too often, since I've been one for most of my life | 08:44 |
| Nico | But again, they would still have other options | 08:45 |
| rainemak | but there are of course things like Forum, this meeting, newsletter, OBS, pootle (maybe weblate some day), software hosting, etc | 08:46 |
| nephros | Oh, and, hopefully subscription would mean transferrable licenses, and easier switch of devices? | 08:46 |
| rainemak | nephros, it could be so that you close subscription on one device and continue on another for example | 08:47 |
| rainemak | and without AppSupport it'd cost 2e/m | 08:48 |
| nephros | rainemak: yeaa, so I pay for "one device" not "this device". | 08:48 |
| Nico | What's the yearly price of general productivity suites nowadays? I'm unfamiliar with the topic | 08:48 |
| nephros | Nico: you mean something like https://www.softmaker.com/en/products/softmaker-office/order | 08:49 |
| Thaodan | I have seen people talking about this kind of topic before | 08:51 |
| rainemak | Let's start wrapping up! We'll appreciate this discussion and certainly continue this open dialogue with you. | 08:51 |
| Thaodan | subscriptions are a little easier than let's say bug bounties | 08:51 |
| Nico | nephros Yeah, any. How much is it in euros? In yen it is 7500/month for 5 devices, which is about 10 euro per device | 08:51 |
| nephros | Nico: I see 30, 50, 130, and 100 Euros on that site. | 08:52 |
| Nico | (I meant what is the cost in Europe) | 08:52 |
| Nico | thanks! | 08:52 |
| rainemak | Thank you very much about your feedback! | 08:52 |
| Nico | so yeah, about 10/davice | 08:52 |
| saltpie[m] | The best Option in my opinion would be to still make the OS a one time Purchase and add a subscribition for updates but also make the updates available for a one time purchase wich is cheaper than the Subscription but still increases in Price with every Update that you did not buy or subscribe to. Sorry for barging in. Also sorry for my bad Typing im on Mobile. | 08:53 |
| rainemak | saltpie[m], I don't see that free version of Sailfish OS would disappear | 08:53 |
| nephros | Some go with a pay-as-you-like model, like the HumbleBundle. | 08:54 |
| rainemak | saltpie[m], further now we have also moment in time to simplify things | 08:54 |
| saltpie[m] | Oh sorry, my bad i only thougt about the Paid Version | 08:54 |
| rainemak | pay-as-you-like is not necessarily a bad idea either | 08:54 |
| nephros | I also like how SDF does it (https://sdf.org), they have layers mixin one-time and recurring payments. | 08:56 |
| rainemak | #topic Next meeting time and date (5 mins) | 08:56 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 15th Feb 2024)" | 08:56 | |
| Nico | rainemak I think pay-as-you-like may be a good idea in the context of our community, actually | 08:57 |
| Nico | rainemak Are general topics only introduced by Jolla?. I have a general question about how to contact Jolla about their new direction | 08:57 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | I think the mentioned subscription model has some advantages the current model doesn't have. For example, one could pay 5 euros to test and see, if they can successfully run the Android applications they need in their daily life | 08:57 |
| rainemak | Nico, no... general is for all kind of general discussion that you'd like to have | 08:58 |
| Nico | Nice! Thanks | 08:58 |
| Nico | then I copypaste quickly | 08:58 |
| Nico | The feedback form to Jolla about their future AI operations has been closed | 08:58 |
| Nico | I had prepared several notes with ideas and resources which may be hepful | 08:58 |
| Nico | But was too busy to merge and format them into something more consistent before it closed | 08:59 |
| Nico | Is there any place where those kind of things can be sent? | 08:59 |
| Nico | Jolla's website only shows mails for business partnerships, job applications and helpdesk | 08:59 |
| rainemak | Please ping me via forum | 08:59 |
| rainemak | Proposing Thursday 29th February at 08:00am UTC | 08:59 |
| Nico | ok, I'll create an account :D | 08:59 |
| rainemak | ah, so you don't have one | 08:59 |
| Nico | I'ts been on the "on day" list for quite a while | 09:00 |
| Nico | not proud | 09:00 |
| Nico | *one | 09:01 |
| rainemak | any objection regarding proposed next meeting? | 09:01 |
| rainemak | sounds not... | 09:02 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | Nope! | 09:02 |
| rainemak | #info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 29th February 2023 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-02-29T0800Z | 09:02 |
| Nico | That will be right after MWC, right? | 09:02 |
| rainemak | Thank yo all! | 09:02 |
| rainemak | #endmeeting | 09:02 |
| sailbot | Meeting ended Thu Feb 15 09:02:28 2024 UTC. | 09:02 |
| sailbot | Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2024/sailfishos-meeting.2024-02-15-08.00.html | 09:02 |
| sailbot | Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2024/sailfishos-meeting.2024-02-15-08.00.txt | 09:02 |
| sailbot | Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2024/sailfishos-meeting.2024-02-15-08.00.log.html | 09:02 |
| *** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th February 2024 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-02-15T0800Z" | 09:02 | |
| Nico | thanks! | 09:02 |
| Crabster | thx #? | 09:02 |
| rainemak | Nico, pinged you on the irc | 09:03 |
| Nico | thanks! | 09:03 |
| tuplasuhveli[m] | Thanks for the meeting! | 09:07 |
| *** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 29th February 2024 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-02-29T0800Z" | 09:55 | |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!