Thursday, 2024-03-14

*** rainemak_ is now known as rainemak07:27
rainemakgood morning07:54
tuplasuhveli[m]Good morning!07:58
rainemak#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 202408:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Mar 14 08:00:00 2024 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:00
rainemak#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:08:00
rainemakI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.08:00
rainemak#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info08:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:00
rainemakWow, that was sharp 10:0008:00
rainemakNot too many topics today but surely some will take more than proposed/reserved.08:00
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, sailor @ Jolla, chairperson today08:00
nephros#info nephros, community desktop portal poodle08:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - community08:00
tuplasuhveli[m]#info tuplasuhveli, community08:01
abr#info Andrew Branson, sailing by08:01
voidanix[m]#info voidanix - community, i think08:01
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones, community08:01
pvuorela#info Pekka Vuorela, Jolla08:01
Jetset#info Jetset08:03
direc85[m]#info Matti Viljanen, community08:03
Crabster#info Crabster - lurker08:03
rainemakvery good number of participants08:04
rainemaklet's get going08:04
rainemak#topic Increased root partition size on older devices (5mins -- asked by jojomen)08:05
*** sailbot changes topic to "Increased root partition size on older devices (5mins -- asked by jojomen) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> There are numerous threads here and in the old forum about people08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> running into trouble after filling up their root partition.08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> @olf has written a good guide on resizing it. However, it’s08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> tedious work on top of the already somewhat convoluted flashing08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> procedure, and low-level work on the storage config can be scary.08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> Link to guide, that also has some links to forum topics about08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> resizing:08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> Having the SFOS installation image default to a 4 GB root08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> partition (same as newer devices) would make things easier, and -08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> as olf’s guide points out - an SD card can compensate for the 1.508:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> GB lost from the home partition.08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> Would Jolla consider making this change or, if not, what are the08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> key factors against it?08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> A comment from olf08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> …, but not automatically altering partition sizes on extant08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> SailfishOS installations.08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> IMO, this simply requires changing two characters in a08:05
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä. community08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> configuration file and no extra quality assurance beyond review08:05
rainemak#info <jojomen> and checking for typos, because the space on internal mass storage08:06
rainemak#info <jojomen> (FLASH memory) is always sufficient for this on all supported08:06
rainemak#info <jojomen> Xperia models.08:06
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:06
rainemak#info <jojomen> This measure would alleviate a very common failure mode for08:06
ExTechOp(sorry for being a bit late)08:06
rainemak#info <jojomen> SailfishOS upgrades and installing SailfishOS-native software: no08:06
rainemak#info <jojomen> space left on root volume.08:06
rainemakSorry there will be longish answer08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Let’s start from the problem. We’d like to first understand how08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> people end up running out space. What’s causing it? There shouldn’t08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> be anything blocking to increase root partition size for older08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> devices but only for flashable image (no resizing during upgrade).08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Something similar that we did for newer devices.08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> There are few scenarios that are easy to foresee / understand.08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> From platform developer point of view root partition size can be08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> problematic especially if you’re working on large project(s) and08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> need debug symbols. First thing is to toggle on “Settings ->08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Developer Mode -> Store debug symbols to home08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> partition” (alternative you can install package08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> jolla-developer-mode-home-debug-location). This way debug symbols08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> won’t consume space from root partition.08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Secondly using alternative Sailfish app stores might cause08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> problems. Of course, also just installing tons of apps.08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> For apps we are considering something like /opt/apps/<app-name>/08:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> application root path that would be out of root partition. Under08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> this application root path, developers should still use & follow08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> Filesystem Hierarchy Standard (FHS) for example like:08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> /opt/apps/<app_name>/usr/bin/<app_name>08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> /opt/apps/<app_name>/usr/share/<app_name>/08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> /opt/apps/<app_name>/usr/share/applications/<app_name>.desktop08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> There are two related goals that should be kept in mind:08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> 1) apps should not be installed to the root partition08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> 2) root partition should eventually be readonly08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> If both of these would be met, then size of root partition would08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> not be that big of an issue. For time being maybe we just adjust08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> root partition for the older devices – we’ll comment this more a08:07
rainemak#info <Jolla> bit later.08:07
rainemakExTechOp, no worries08:07
rainemakWould somebody have case where you have run of space on root? What has caused it?08:08
nephrosrainemak: it is always apps, through to library packaging requirements making packages very small.08:09
nephrossorry large.08:09
rainemakvoidanix[m], ok thank you08:09
rainemaknephros, moving apps to out of root partition to let's say /opt/apps would help that08:10
voidanix[m]w/ 4GB root you can install very few apps in the container; it installs itself in /opt/waydroid IIRC08:10
nephrosI guess, yes.08:10
direc85[m]There's a nice application that lets you visualize the disk space used; Space Inspector.08:10
nephrosMaybe /opt/apps could even be something like unionfs, collecting apps from device storag, and SD card?08:10
rainemakvoidanix[m], it should probably create a symlink from /opt/waydroid to /home/.system/waydroid08:11
rainemakthis way it'd go to home08:11
direc85[m]Using /opt/apps/ for user-installed applications sounds excellent!08:11
rainemakthinking is that whatever is the size of the root partition, it can be filled08:11
nephrosOne thing that is eating some space from the OS is l10n files.08:11
flypigI agree, moving the app executable dir out of root makes sense.08:12
nephros/usr/share/locale is 80+MB08:12
rainemakit would like be a symlink to /home/.system/apps08:12
rainemakflypig, target / goal is that eventually root partition would be turned to readonly08:12
flypigEven better :)08:12
flypigI've also experienced it (yesterday as it happens) installing libraries to /usr/lib64. But this was for development; not typical.08:12
voidanix[m]direc85 wouldn't /usr/local/ be a better candidate?08:12
rainemakflypig, that's platform dev headache :-) I feel you08:13
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla08:13
ThaodanSorry lost track of time08:13
nephrosFDO/FHS people do not like /usr/local08:13
ThaodanThey don't like /opt/apps either..08:14
rainemak#info Extended topic by 5mins08:14
voidanix[m]at least one is standardized across basically all distros08:14
flypigWhat's the situation with apps on a multi-user device?08:14
rainemak~ minute to go08:14
rainemakflypig, no difference08:14
ThaodanI think /opt/apps is a solution for a problem that is self created that will create more problems08:14
flypigApp access is controlled by shortcuts?08:15
Thaodandeduplication and using more of the unused storage should help further08:15
flypigOr everyone has access to all apps?08:15
direc85[m]voidanix Could be. Using /opt/ would keep the separation larger and simpler in my opinion. And in some distros /usr/local/bin and /usr/bin point to the same place.08:15
nephrosAnother place for the OS that could be reviewed is /usr/share/fonts. That's 33MB, and maybe thinks like the symbola font are not necessary.08:15
rainemakflypig, I'm not sure if I'm following08:15
abrit'd be nice to see the old maemo word 'optification' brought back :)08:16
rainemakflypig, Sailfish OS are shared for each device users... app specific data is user specific08:16
rainemakhave we covered this topic08:16
direc85[m]Using something like /opt/apps/<username>/ could make per-user applications possible.08:16
flypigrainemak, sorry, I'm describing it poorly, but you just answered me. I was wondering if there are user-specific apps, but there aren't (only user-specific data).08:17
direc85[m]Actually, disregard my previous comment. ~/.local/bin is the place for per-user binaries.08:17
rainemakover time already... let's move on08:17
Thaodannephros: Symbola is used for is used for emojiis? I think. not sure08:17
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community08:17
dcalisteSorry to be late.08:18
ThaodanAny work like we talk about should not be done before /usrmove is done08:18
nephrosThaodan: yes, but there are better emoji fonts08:18
rainemakI'll give 2 more mins08:18
voidanix[m]direc85 sure, apps can also be snug under ~/.apps ala flatpak08:18
Thaodanafter usrmove we can separate /usr and /var better08:18
nephroswhat's usrmove?08:18
Thaodannephros: /bin /lib -> to /usr/bin /usr/lib08:19
rainemakas this discussion is flourishing08:19
nephrosah that one.08:19
Thaodanessentially you can remove all files from / that are in /usr and just have /usr as rootfs08:19
rainemakdiscussion drifting quite a bit...08:19
rainemaklet's do not fix whole world now08:20
rainemaksounds like a plausible newsletter topic actually08:20
rainemakmoving on08:20
rainemak#topic RCS Messenging  (5mins -- asked by Cryx)08:20
*** sailbot changes topic to "RCS Messenging (5mins -- asked by Cryx) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:20
Thaodanis empty besides /etc and /var can be on a separate volume. The point is that don't add more mess before cleaning up.08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> RCS seems to be at least the new Standard as Apple jumps on that08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> train too (forced by the DMA of course…). On the long road RCS08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> will be the successor of SMS/MMS services. What’s the status for08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> RCS support on Sailfish OS?08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> We brought that topic on from time to time here in the forum (not08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> just my me…), but it seems we never had that in a community08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> meeting. So, the main questions are if there was any08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> thinking/investigation if and how these services could be added08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> to SFOS.08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> To my mind it’s an interesting topic to also now if this might be08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> possible as an implemented always on service like phone and SMS08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> (as, we all know that other native messengers need to run in08:20
rainemak#info <jojomen> background to receive messages).08:21
rainemak#info <jojomen>08:21
rainemak#info <jojomen> As said above I’ll probably won’t make it into the meeting, but08:21
rainemak#info <jojomen> in fact I’m just user and no dev and might not really help in the08:21
rainemak#info <jojomen> discussion at all.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> Thank pherjung for your checking what other distributions are doing08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> to enable Rich Communication Services (RCS). No findings.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> Apple’s jump was not forced by Digital Markets Act (DMA) as08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> iMessage was not deemed as gatekeeper by the European Commission.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> Actually, Rich Communication Services (RCS) is not even mentioned08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> there.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> The Rich Communication Services (RCS) has been “coming” around 1508:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> years. Maybe now with Apple’s push it could really lift off and08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> GSMA will agree on standard. That said, it’s still a phone carrier08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> protocol just like SMS with similar security model.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> We have been looking into this but so far always seen this as not08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> yet mandatory. Effort wise this is huge. Whether RCS would be08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> compatible with current messaging architecture is another big08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> topic.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> Further, we should think & compare RCS to Signal for example.08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> Could/Should we somehow facilitate deeper Whisperfish integration –08:21
rainemak#info <Jolla> maybe we should?08:21
flypigWe should!08:22
ExTechOp(just a side note, dammit, why did they want to use the RCS acronym, the world is full of 3-letter acronyms, and they reuse the one for Revision Control System?)08:22
voidanix[m]tbh RCS is not better than SMS - the reason it's getting adopted so much is because every phone ships Google Messages08:23
sebix[m]switch to VCS (Version Control system) :)08:23
voidanix[m]which is absolutely packed with proprietary extensions08:23
abrI didn't know apple were going for RCS now. It's been in Google's messaging app for a while so that's going to be important08:23
rainemakExTechOp, hehe, indeed08:23
abrbut sfos messages need to support multi-user chats first. MMS does those. very popular in the US08:23
ThaodanI think RCS will be necessary sooner or later.08:24
ThaodanIf we would have a connection manager that does rcs for telepathy it would be great.08:24
rainemakThaodan, eventually yes08:24
ExTechOpI remember back when Sailfish started, the "selling point" of the device was thorough integration of the different messaging protocols, unfortunately it hasn't been like that for a while.08:24
ViGeyup, when both google and apple use RCS, it's going to be expected to be supported by everyone.08:24
abrthe volte work implemented IMS a bit, which volte shares with RCS08:24
abrbut google uses a 3rd party to provide RCS iirc08:25
Thaodanabr: Not really. IMS is done inside the modem mostly. Can we do RCS outside the modem using that?08:25
direc85[m]As a Whisperfish dev, I know we'd love to be able to integrate into the OS in a Harbour compatible way. Whisperfish is already highly non-compatible. But that's another topic.08:25
rainemakabr, +1 for multi-user chat08:25
voidanix[m]I expect apple's implementation to be very barebones, not by choice, but because the standardized spec is08:25
ThaodanSailfish OS telepathy was the only one missing group chat ui08:25
abrThaodan: iiuc the modem provides the auth tokens for RCS08:25
Thaodanabr: ah thanks08:25
abrthrough ims08:25
abrsame for the wifi calling stuff08:26
ThaodanI think a requirement for rcs would be that all the volte stuff is available for all devices not just Jolla devices.08:26
Thaodanmy ports are volte capable but dont get access to them08:26
abrnot even sure if that's possible. it's all super proprietary isn't it08:26
rainemakabr, these are all big items and I can almost surely say that we cannot pull them off this year... maybe plausible to get some of them done by doing together with you all08:28
ThaodanThat would be a great idea.08:28
abrhuge amount of work. might be good to try to do it with other distros08:28
ThaodanIf we can implement some of the enables for the community that would be great08:28
Thaodanabr: agreed08:28
rainemakabr, I thought the same regarding rcs08:28
abrthis apple news is good motivation08:29
Thaodanhowever I wonder how can the work be shared in hybris vs mainline stacks08:29
rainemaknext by nephros is long one08:29
flypigI think Jolla should be aiming to provide interfaces for others to add things to. A messaging interface that apps can plug in to (so messaging apps don't have to run services), and which different backends can attach to.08:29
Thaodanplus it has to be independent of the network manager involved08:29
Thaodanflypig: that's telepathy and the accounts framework..08:30
Thaodanbut both a a nono in harbour08:30
abrmultiuser chats for MMS would be really good baby step. need to know how those look08:30
nephros... and libsocialcache to a degree08:30
rainemakalright, let's move on08:30
Thaodanping me on irc if help is needed :)08:30
abrif that can be done in telepathy, then the likes of signal/whisperfish could be integrated too :)08:30
rainemak#topic XDG Desktop Portals (10mins -- asked by nephros)08:30
*** sailbot changes topic to "XDG Desktop Portals (10mins -- asked by nephros) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:30
rainemak#info <nephros> Sorry for the wall-of text below. Most of it is informational08:30
rainemak#info <nephros> -only/General Discussion, specific questions to Jollyboys in08:30
rainemak#info <nephros> Part 2, below.08:30
rainemak#info <Jolla> Too long post, so here’s a link to the post:08:30
direc85[m]abr, agreed!08:31
rainemakabr, yeap08:31
piggzgreat work on the portal so far imo08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> Part 1 Informational: State of the PoC08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> Good to see progress!08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> Part 2 Questions to Jollyboys08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> a) Regarding naming, we’d propose to go with Sailfish as the08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> implementation will eventually be Sailfish OS specific. Whilst this08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> link regarding coding conventions points to apps it applies well08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> for platform development as well.08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> So, D-Bus names org.sailfishos -prefix, use namespace Sailfish08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> Amber is meant for platform agnostic components.08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> b) At this point LGPLv3+ is still problematic. If plausible, would08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> be simpler to rewrite those sources pulling in LGPLv3+ and go with08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> a compatible license.08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> c) It should go to /var/lib/environment/nemo/[dd]-name.conf that08:31
rainemak#info <Jolla> then gets included by user@.service08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> d) Sounds like might be applicable.08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> Alternatively: Many services (e.g. ngfd) utilize “preinstalled”08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> WantedBy=  symlinks in08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> -directory.08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> e) Not really at this point08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> Part 3 Questions to everybody08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> 1. Given that license is sorted out we could take this to the08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla>
rainemak#info <Jolla> 2. Other important things to add?08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla>08:32
rainemak#info <Jolla> Part 4 Informational: Future outlook and challenges08:32
rainemakpiggz, great progress indeed08:32
nephrosThanks, good answers!08:32
Thaodanc) Violates FHS. Eventually it would make sense to follow the environment.d standard.08:33
rainemakThaodan, we're not fixing that nemo thingie now08:33
rainemakThaodan, there are also some systemd related things that we should take into use ... but that's another topic as well08:34
direc85[m]Great work with the portals! SailfishOS is turning into quite a versatile platform!08:34
nephrosOne thing that needs to be thought about with Portals is the Permissions aspect.08:35
nephrosIt kinda clashes with the SailJail concept.08:35
Thaodannephros: I'm not sure how the concept can be adjusted. I noticed Qt6 has permissions builtin but it also depends on the platform below.08:36
nephrosPortal does on-demand/on-access permissions, while SJ of course does everything at binary lanch.08:36
flypigTo add to what others said: amazing work nephros.08:36
abrsailjail could be adjusted to provide everything that other permissions can control08:37
Thaodanabr: question if firejail can be adjusted?08:37
rainemakabr, i think so08:37
rainemakThaodan, or developed forward08:37
abrfirejail will mount whatever you tell it to08:37
rainemakabr, yeap08:37
abrso if you tell it to mount everything that other permissions can control, then it will. it's still important that it hides bits of the fs that apps should never be able to access, such as other app's data.08:38
rainemakthere will be easily work on the area of xdg-dbus-proxy08:38
Thaodanabr: Of course it does but how does it handle cases where a permission doesn't exist anymore for an app at runtime?08:39
rainemakone minute08:39
ThaodanFirejail just executes a profile before starting and then continues without change.08:39
abrthen it would be up to the higher level permission system to handle that.08:39
nephrosThe point is though, Portals are by design running outside the sandbox. So, e.g. the File picker can choose files that the app that it handed back the URIs cannot access.08:39
abrwouldn't that be the case for other app container systems too e.g. flatpak?08:40
direc85[m]The clash between portals and firejail is causing issues elsewhere too, so there may be some solutions out there already.08:40
nephrosOne question from me: where do we continue architecutral/integration discussions? Forum? Github? elsewhere?08:40
rainemaktime is running out, moving on... sorry to stop this lively discussion... let's try to continue some discussion in the generic part08:40
rainemak#topic Release of adaptation repos for devices dropped in SFOS 4.6 (2-3mins -- asked by nephros)08:41
*** sailbot changes topic to "Release of adaptation repos for devices dropped in SFOS 4.6 (2-3mins -- asked by nephros) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> Any chance of making available the necessary materials needed for08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> community ports of devices whose support has been dropped for08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> SFOS 4.6?08:41
rainemak#info <nephros>08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> Community porters may be able to continue support for older08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> devices if enabled to do so.08:41
rainemak#info <nephros>08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> It would also be a nice legacy for the Jolla Tablet if it could08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> live on a bit, something that was unfortunately not possible for08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> the original Jolla phone. (Although I fear, of all the dropped08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> devices, the chance for getting the Tablet materials is the08:41
rainemak#info <nephros> slimmest.)08:41
rainemak#info <Jolla> Jolla C & Tablet are tricky as there were some proprietary sources.08:41
rainemak#info <Jolla> Sony Xperia X repositories are already available.08:41
rainemaknephros, feel free to ping me if you need more info regarding xperia x08:41
nephrosrainemak: thanks, unfortunately my XC has developped bulging battery syndrome08:42
rainemakI think this doesn't need more time08:42
rainemaklet's move on08:42
nephrosHow about the Gemini?08:42
nephrosIs that also already out there?08:43
rainemakSame as tablet i think08:43
rainemak#topic Migrating alphabetical scrollbar to Silica (10mins -- asked by tuplasuhveli)08:43
*** sailbot changes topic to "Migrating alphabetical scrollbar to Silica (10mins -- asked by tuplasuhveli) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:43
ThaodanIn case one wants to start porting Xperia X I can help with starting the port and manage bugs. My project is open for more community ports08:43
rainemak#info <tuplasuhveli> This idea rose from a conversation regarding Flowplayer 2,08:43
rainemak#info <tuplasuhveli> but other SFOS apps could also benefit from the neat08:43
rainemak#info <tuplasuhveli> scrollbar presented in SFOS People app. Could Jolla consider08:43
rainemak#info <tuplasuhveli> adding the scrollbar into the Silica components?08:43
rainemak#info <Jolla> Yes, this could well be something to consider. It has some08:43
rainemak#info <Jolla> references to contacts that should be cut before it could be even08:43
rainemak#info <Jolla> considered to be moved to Silica. Very good suggestion! Needs more08:43
rainemak#info <Jolla> thinking and planning.08:43
rainemaktuplasuhveli[m], to complement above, this won't happen anytime soon I'd say08:44
tuplasuhveli[m]Yeah, it doesn't sound like the number one priority :D08:44
rainemaklet's move on...08:45
rainemak#topic Qt version (5mins -- asked by KeeperoftheKeys)08:45
*** sailbot changes topic to "Qt version (5mins -- asked by KeeperoftheKeys) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> Sorry if this was recently discussed - I was just looking08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> up some documentation on certain QML elements and08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> realized that the oldest version of Qt that still has08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> documentation available is 5.15, while the Sailfish08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> documentation is very far from complete and relies on the08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> official Qt documentation. Though the documentation08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> thankfully still notes when things were added all in all08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> the situation to continue developing on much older08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> versions is getting worse also from the point of view of08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> being able to open docs and understanding what behaviour08:45
rainemak#info <KeeperoftheKeys> should be.08:45
rainemak#info <Jolla> You can find Qt 5.6 documentation here.08:45
rainemakthat you nephros for answering already in the forum thread08:45
rainemakplease, no need to go into Qt upgrade discussion now08:45
rainemakI think this is covered08:46
rainemak#topic Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)08:46
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:46
rainemak#info <Jolla> Any open PRs to discuss?08:46
ThaodanThe Qt 5.15 dopcumentation works quite well even fro Qt 5.6 as it mentions when a feature was changed/added08:46
direc85[m]I'm interested in the state of Rust 1.75:
ViGeI believe Qt 5.6 documentation is also bundled with the SDK08:47
direc85[m]The last I head of it was the TMPDIR fix worked in OBS too.08:47
ExTechOpIs there anything that Jolla folks might be able to divulge, eg. new hardware in the pipeline for SFOS?08:48
rainemakdirec85[m], if I'm not mistaken there were issues to build gecko esr78 against it08:48
rainemaksome back porting needed08:48
Thaodanor flypig is faster XD08:48
rainemakthus, I'd rush it in08:48
voidanix[m]talking about backporting, what about kernel upgrades?
rainemakdirec85[m], hopefully this doesn't hinder much your Whisperfish development08:49
rainemakThaodan, yes esr91 is an option as well08:49
direc85[m]rainemak Thanks for the info. I suppose this is something the community could try helping with?08:49
rainemakwill check08:50
ViGevoidanix[m]: is there something particularly interesting in those upgrades?08:50
ExTechOpAlso, is there any work on the Sony binary blobs, if I've understood correctly the normal SFOS updates don't update them?08:50
voidanix[m]other than a display fix for tama, not really08:50
direc85[m]rainemak No, Whisperfish is well in the 1.75 era now! Our CI/CD uses a custom build image with updated Rust too, so we're covered.08:50
rainemakdirec85[m], very good08:51
voidanix[m]i'm looking into fixing more tama things in the future, but the port pulls from the mer-hybris kernel08:51
rainemak#action Check voidanix[m] comment, talking about backporting, what about kernel upgrades?
rainemakAs there are no bug reports today. Let's move to general discussion. We could spend a few minutes there.08:52
rainemak#topic General discussion (6 min)08:52
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (6 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:52
ThaodanExTechOp: We/I have figured out on how to manage the issue but it requires work to do it properly in the ui. For community ports I would work on the lower level parts such as the initrd to check the right blob version to avoid issues.08:52
rainemakI have one myself...08:52
rainemakWould somebody like to volunteer to be translation coordinator for Finnish language?08:52
ThaodanI would try out the kumano port as the first port to test the upgrade process.08:53
ThaodanBut first I had to figure out os upgrades for community ports through the ui which is done now08:53
ExTechOpThaodan Excellent! I'm sure we'll hear from you once things progress.08:54
rainemakThanks for each participants... I enjoyed hosting this once again! What a great discussion we had!08:54
voidanix[m]Thaodan I'm not sure about upgrading the binaries, they are proprietary sony stuff08:55
rainemakbefore somebody says, there was a question from this morning as well... let's cover that in the forum08:55
direc85[m]rainemak I can be a coordinator.08:55
ExTechOpIs there anything that (the company formerly known as) Jolla folks might be able to divulge, eg. new hardware in the pipeline for SFOS?08:55
direc85[m](Here I go, assuming Finnish was handled in-house!)08:56
Thaodanvoidanix[m]: we're not upgrading the binaries but providing ui/guidance to upgrade them during the upgrade or download them so the installer can flash them08:56
rainemakExTechOp, I commented about Sony xperia 10 IV & 10 V in the last newsletter08:56
rainemakExTechOp, will dig out a link for you08:56
voidanix[m]Thaodan: ah, I see08:57
rainemakdirec85[m], give a look to the link regarding coordinators and the last paragraph08:58
direc85[m]Will do!08:59
rainemakdirec85[m], and thank you for volunteering08:59
rainemaklet's schedule next meeting08:59
rainemak#topic Next meeting time and date (1 mins)08:59
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (1 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 14th March 2024)"08:59
rainemakProposing Thursday 28th March at 08:00am UTC08:59
direc85[m]Works for me09:00
flypigRight before Easter. LGTM.09:00
ExTechOpWorks for me too09:00
rainemaklet's it then09:01
rainemak#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 28th March 2024 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-03-28T0800Z09:01
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Mar 14 09:01:30 2024 UTC.09:01
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 29th February 2024 at 08:00am UTC: 2024-02-29T0800Z"09:01
flypigThank you rainemak & all for the nice meeting once again :D09:01
ExTechOpThanks everybody, once again!09:01
nephrosThanks Jolla, thanks everyone! I think this was a good one.09:01
direc85[m]Great discussion indeed! Thanks!09:02
tuplasuhveli[m]Good questions and good answers everybody!09:02
Crabsterthx #?09:02
rainemakdirec85[m], yeap Finnish mostly handled internally but I see Finnish language as good ground for community coordination as well09:58
rainemakdirec85[m], once again thanks09:58
direc85[m]<a data-mention-type="user" href="" contenteditable="false">@rainemak</a> You're welcome!13:53

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