Thursday, 2025-12-18

*** ChanServ sets mode: +o rainemak15:58
rainemak#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 202516:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu Dec 18 16:00:00 2025 UTC. The chair is rainemak. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:00
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.16:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:00
rainemak#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:16:00
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/2577416:00
rainemakI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. Please respect the timings and bee-hive.16:00
rainemak#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info16:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:00
AffeNull[m]#info Affe Null, community16:00
jojomen#info jojomen, community16:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela, community16:00
mettska#info mettska, community16:00
heng#info Heng Ye, community16:00
direc85[m]#info Matti Viljanen, Jolla16:00
mal#info mal, Jolla16:00
Guest33872#info Otto Mäkelä, community16:01
rainemak#info Raine Mäkeläinen, Jolla16:02
*** Guest33872 is now known as ExTechop-16:03
Nico#info Nico, community16:03
abr#info Andrew Branson, Jolla16:03
rainemakWe have 6 topics to cover which a very nice number for the last meeting of the year. Please keep on asking and raising topics on forum.16:04
NicoSo much activity! :D16:05
rainemak#topic Mainline Linux kernel support for Jolla phones (20-30 mins -- asked by affe_null)16:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "Mainline Linux kernel support for Jolla phones (20-30 mins -- asked by affe_null) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> There is a growing community of mobile Linux enthusiasts who16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> are interested in running new close-to-mainline kernels16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> instead of vendor kernels originally developed for Android.16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> Some people are already asking about mainline support for16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> the new Jolla phone. In the past, similar requests have been16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> dismissed as not realistic. I think that many things have16:06
jojomenHard to keep track :)16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> changed now. We don’t have a fully working phone with a16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> mainline kernel yet, but some are getting extremely close.16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null>16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> This looks like a good opportunity for Sailfish OS, since16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> using a mainline kernel could help with providing longer16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> support for devices, attract more developers, and replace a16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> lot of low-quality/unmaintained/proprietary manufacturer16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> code with community-developed open-source software.16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null>16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> Would Jolla be interested in officially supporting community16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> mainlining efforts for supported devices? Are there any16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> chances that a close-to-mainline kernel for the Jolla C2 or16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> the new Jolla phone will eventually be integrated into16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> Sailfish OS, perhaps as an optional alternative? I would16:06
rainemak#info <affe_null> like to discuss the requirements for this.16:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Unfortunately we do not have resources to officially support16:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> community mainlining efforts.  Contributions of course welcome16:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> to the Jolla C2 git repositories.16:06
rainemak#info <Jolla>16:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> Or are you actually asking to support efforts themselves not the16:06
rainemak#info <Jolla> mainlining itself?16:06
rainemakCurrently we just have our hands full.16:07
NicoI guess the hope was, that the J2 SOC would be more mainline happy than older SOCs have been in the past?16:07
malone part where we can help is if packages need updating, or feature enabled to for example get hw video codecs or other things working in mainline based devices16:08
rainemakyes, hw video codecs is one good example16:09
jojomenI believe haveing mainline kernel and drivers would reduce maintenance and let devices ive longer, but doesn't it come down to the good will SoC suppliers?16:10
jojomen-> goo will of...16:10
jojomen-> good will of... (can't spell)16:10
malgetting everything to good enough state for releases is not easy16:10
malone commonly difficult thing in mainline phones in suspending and power management in general16:11
NicoIs the android support still tied to the kernel version or can that be independently updated now?16:11
AffeNull[m]mal: not with SFOS, is it? On the C2 autosuspend works fine16:12
AffeNull[m]Unisoc has PSCI firmware that provides suspend16:12
malhow is power consumption compared to hybris build?16:12
malpower management is often the more difficult part, I'm more familiar with qcom mainline devices than others16:13
AffeNull[m]It does consume a bit more, but it is not bad16:14
AffeNull[m]and there are still some things I haven't worked on yet, e.g. devfreq drivers16:15
abrWhat sort of offical support were you asking about?16:15
malAffeNull[m]: have you yet tried to get any parts of that integrated into mainline kernel?16:18
AffeNull[m]abr: Nothing specific, but I wasn't referring to actual development work16:18
AffeNull[m]mal: Yes, but the upstreaming process is very slow. I'm still planning to continue16:19
malyes, I know, it can take quite a while16:19
rainemakAffeNull[m], it has been very pleasant to occasionally check your latest updates from the forum thread. Big hand!16:20
AffeNull[m]My question was what requirements a kernel should fulfill to be considered as an alternative to hybris builds in the future, or if Jolla will always use the SoC manufacturer's kernel since it is more official16:22
rainemaknot necessary always...16:24
rainemaks/necessary/necessarily/16:24
ExTechop-(A side question: are the SoC manufacturer's kernel wholly FOSS or are there proprietary components?)16:24
NicoI would guess that depends a lot on how good and how much friction the mainline kernel support would be. If there are no downsides to using the mainline kernel, it likely would be a no-brainer, but life is rarely that simple :316:24
rainemakNico, well put16:25
malthen there are the things like volte etc which might not be trivial16:25
AffeNull[m]ExTechop-: everything in-kernel must be GPLv2 compatible, but some of their drivers depend on non-standard proprietary userspace libraries16:26
abrmodules can be closed as well, no?16:28
ExTechop-AffeNull[m] (thanks, would the proprietary parts also include things like the Sony proprietary developer blobs on Xperia hardware?)16:28
rainemaklet's use the upper limit 30mins for this topic.16:29
malalso one part to note that getting camera to work well in mainline is not easy, often the vendor support in android does undocumented things directly to the hw16:30
AffeNull[m]mal: I'm already working on most of these things for the C2, and it's not as bad as with qcom devices16:31
AffeNull[m](except for hardware video encoding)16:31
malok, depends on the camera sensors of course also16:31
rainemak3mins16:32
AffeNull[m]Ok, thanks for the responses! I guess we can move on16:34
malI can have a look at some point at your git repo and see if I have any commments based on my experiences with getting patches into upstream16:35
AffeNull[m]mal: Thanks, that would be great!16:36
rainemaklet's move on16:36
rainemak#topic Additional details on J2 (5mins -- asked by JoshuaStrobl)16:36
*** sailbot changes topic to "Additional details on J2 (5mins -- asked by JoshuaStrobl) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:36
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> 1. U.S. band information - It is communicated that there16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> will be support for U.S. market (roaming). Could more16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> specifics be provided on which bands will be supported?16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> I have at least one friend I could order the device for16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> that I’ll be meeting up with in Prague next year, but he16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> needs to know if it’d even support his network.16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl>16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> 2. Cyan cover? My cyan Jolla One needs a friend. That is16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> all.16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> 3. Could STLs or similar of the back cover be made16:37
rainemak#info <JoshuaStrobl> available so folks can make their own back covers?16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> Let’s try to talk about Jolla Phone or Jolla Phone (2026)16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> whenever possible :-).16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla>16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> 1. We will design the cellular band configuration to enable16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> global travelling as much as possible. Too early to communicate16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> actual bands.16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla>16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> 2. Having a Jolla One color friend sounds like an interesting16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> idea, let’s see.16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla>16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> 3. We’ll open source the hardware and software interface specs16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> of The Other Half so anyone can design, 3D-print, or produce16:37
rainemak#info <Jolla> their own modules. So, answer to your question is yes.16:37
JoshuaStrobl[m]Easy. We can move on :D16:37
rainemakI think we'll create a git repository for the 3D models.16:38
cquenceHello everyone, super-late joined to listen in (read)16:38
jojomenHow will the Other Half work with respect to the NFC antenna?16:38
JoshuaStrobl[m]As since the posting of my question, ToH 2 was announced, so I believe that mainly covered the 3rd question. That said, would we still get them regardless of if we hit the 10k preorders for creation of ToH 2?16:38
jojomenIs there a risk NFC tags will end up too far away?16:38
rainemaklet's be pragmatic on how to share those 3d models and other related materials16:39
ExTechop-(it is nice to see how there are now 5729 sold of 2000, so 286% funded for the J2 pre-order)16:39
Nicojojomen: If someone creates a thich keyboard toh, most likely, but I would hope they thought of that for the normal ones :D16:39
JoshuaStrobl[m]Yea a git repository with the assets would be fantastic. Thanks.16:40
jojomennico: That might solve my other issue: Seeing the renders of the phone, I wonder how to avoid camera lenses rubbing against wherever I lay may phone16:40
jojomen:)16:40
rainemakto clarify, The Other Half is coming back if we reach 10,000. <- that's what we communicated in the Forum.16:41
NicoWell, I doubt NFC passes through the thick other halfs, there will likely be limitations based on the thickness and material used, unless the NFC antenna is moved to the front or top or something, which I don't think is really possible16:41
Nicorainemak, well, I'm a glass half full kinda person16:42
rainemakWe are super pleased on how you have taken the The Other Half Returns announcement16:43
rainemakhttps://forum.sailfishos.org/t/the-other-half-returns-community-innovation-program/2601116:43
rainemaklet's move forward16:43
rainemak#topic Future plans of the Qt update (10mins -- asked by CLMA31)16:43
*** sailbot changes topic to "Future plans of the Qt update (10mins -- asked by CLMA31) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> During the summer community meeting there were talks that the16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> biggest reason Qt update haven’t happened was that there was16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> not yet any customer willing to pay for it. After that Sami16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> mentioned that there had been thinking of splitting the16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> SailfishOS to fully open source version where Qt update could16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> then be done and keeping other version for B2B customers. Has16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> there been any development on this front? On other hand, I16:43
rainemak#info <CLMA31> hope that financial situation of Jolla has improved and who16:44
jojomen@rainemak: It's really nice that you considered TOH for the new phone!16:44
rainemak#info <CLMA31> know, maybe there could be money even to pay for Qt16:44
rainemak#info <CLMA31> licenses :slight_smile: PS: STUNNING job with the J2 launch so16:44
rainemak#info <CLMA31> far! Really excited to get my hand on one16:44
rainemak#info <Jolla> No development updates to share now. A model where we would16:44
rainemak#info <Jolla> have fully open source version and keeping “current” for B2B16:44
rainemak#info <Jolla> customers could be still an option.16:44
rainemakI guess there are not much to add to this.16:48
rainemaklet's move on16:48
rainemak#topic Unable to call local emergency from lock screen (5-10 mins -- asked by CLMA31)16:48
*** sailbot changes topic to "Unable to call local emergency from lock screen (5-10 mins -- asked by CLMA31) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> There has been great discussion about the problem in here16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> Reliable emergency calls - #11 by jrg and at least here Unable16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> to call local emergency number, only 112 - #30 by moripeluka.16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> There has been reports that it is not possible to call local16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> emergency numbers from lock screen, only 112. This sounds at16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> least easy and important thing to fix why I want to raise the16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> problem. There has been also reports that calling to the16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> emergency service hasn’t worked at all in the urgent need. It16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> would be great to hear if Jolla has been able to investigate16:48
rainemak#info <CLMA31> that and is there hopes to get that working reliable?16:48
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/reliable-emergency-calls/26085/1116:48
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/unable-to-call-local-emergency-number-only-112/20800/3016:48
rainemak#info <Jolla> Should go without saying that this is a topic that we are16:48
rainemak#info <Jolla> taking seriously. We do not know yet what exactly is the16:48
rainemak#info <Jolla> mechanism on how operators select the devices that are banned16:48
rainemak#info <Jolla> nor how the devices are identified. Same time this probably16:48
rainemak#info <Jolla> affects other custom Android ROMs.16:48
jojomenNot only custom roms, it seems16:49
rainemakThat is true as well just that device gets old enough16:49
jojomenIt's strange that we've come to a point where emergency calls is the most difficult part16:50
abralso seems to be that the stock android for the device doesn't support it, so it gets banned? they can't detect whether a reflashed device might support it now.16:51
jojomenit used to be that you could make emergency calls as long as there was any base station within reach16:51
malthe case where only 112 seemed to be supported is a bit odd, it's possible to check via dbus which one are listed as supported, ofono gets those both sim card and android hal, and there is list of default numbers if neither of those provide anything16:52
malI wonder if the sim card for example only lists that one supported, would need some checking16:54
rainemaklet's move to the next topic16:56
maland it might also be that the extra emergency numbers might not be considered as real emergency number by sim card nor android hal16:56
malin case some country has some topic specific numbers like fire department etc16:56
rainemakmal, that's a good point as well16:56
rainemak#topic AAS-Support on community ports (5mins -- asked by mettska)16:57
*** sailbot changes topic to "AAS-Support on community ports (5mins -- asked by mettska) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"16:57
rainemak#info <mettska> I believe I read somewhere in the past, that Jolla is16:57
rainemak#info <mettska> thinking about supporting AAS on community ports. The port16:57
rainemak#info <mettska> for the Xperia 1IV/5IV seems to have a high quality. Is there16:57
rainemak#info <mettska> a chance it could be (the first) supported community port?16:57
rainemak#info <mettska>16:57
rainemak#info <mettska> Here you find the information and discussion about the port16:57
rainemak#info <mettska> itself: Sony Nagara (Xperia 1IV and 5IV) port16:57
rainemak#link https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-nagara-xperia-1iv-and-5iv-port/2513616:57
rainemak#info <Jolla> It’s very unlikely that Xperia 1 IV / 5 IV would be the first16:57
rainemak#info <Jolla> community port to get the AppSupport (and other commercial16:57
rainemak#info <Jolla> components). Currently we are very busy with all related to16:57
rainemak#info <Jolla> Jolla Phone product program. Further, we give ourselves a bit16:57
rainemak#info <Jolla> of Christmas break. Surely, we have been thinking how to expand16:57
rainemak#info <Jolla> AppSupport for community ports. More on that later.16:57
piggz[m]Aas on volla sure would be nice ;)16:58
malor fairphones :)16:58
mini_coe[m]Or Xperia 10 Iv / v 😉16:59
mettskaSo that means in january or february there could come more information or should I understand "later" more longterm?16:59
rainemakmettska, read: not too far in the future17:00
mettskaok, thanks!17:00
rainemakwill open next topic17:01
rainemak#topic Waiting for the end of FOSDEM before to close J2 sales. (5mins -- asked by Ric9k)17:01
rainemak#info <mettska> Someone evoked this on the Sfos TG: J2 could have some17:01
rainemak#info <mettska> success during FOSDEM.17:01
rainemak#info <mettska>17:01
rainemak#info <mettska> Isnt’t it a bit too bad to close the sales just before the17:01
*** sailbot changes topic to "Waiting for the end of FOSDEM before to close J2 sales. (5mins -- asked by Ric9k) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"17:01
rainemak#info <mettska> end?17:01
mettskayes!17:01
rainemak#info <Jolla> We are seriously considering the 10k as an upper limit for the17:01
rainemak#info <Jolla> pre-orders as a manageable amount and working capital for the17:01
rainemak#info <Jolla> components. Please also note the memory chip prices are17:01
rainemak#info <Jolla> skyrocketing increasing the Bill-of-Materials (BoM).17:01
rainemakMaybe we have the traditional Sailfish community meeting during Saturday evening together with you in some nice place.17:02
jojomenCould be an option to close after 10k units or FOSDEM end, whichever comes first?17:03
rainemakCould be an option, yes.17:04
rainemakLet's see how it goes.17:06
rainemakmoving on17:06
rainemak#topic Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla)17:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "Open Pull Requests (PRs) to discussion (5 mins -- asked by Jolla) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"17:06
ExTechop-(didn't at one point "someone" buy up from wholesalers the chips you intended to use for Jolla tablets?)17:06
rainemakanybody?17:08
rainemakwe can take them up in the general discussion if something pops up17:09
rainemak#topic General discussion (10 mins or something)17:09
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (10 mins or something) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"17:09
jojomenKudos for prompt action on cookies on commerce.jolla.com17:10
jojomenI realize you have been busy with the campaign for the J2, so I really appreciate that you managed to sort this.17:10
NicoWell, you happy with the preorders so far? Above or below expectation? :D17:10
hengviewing reviews on harbour.jolla.com seems to be broken17:12
rainemakClearly above our expectations that's why the batch #1 went long as well.17:12
rainemakKeto, ^ would you be able to check heng's comment17:13
ExTechop-I was a bit surprised that some Chinese manufacturer made push-to-talk walkie-talkie "phones" which use data https://youtu.be/zT0CvQKSKVQ17:13
ExTechop-Would it be possible to use Jolla phone hardware (perhaps with the mostly-superfluous "camera" button) in a similar manner?17:13
rainemakjojomen, thank you17:13
*** koza is now known as roundedrectangl17:15
Ketoheng: that has never been implemented17:15
roundedrectanglheng: AFAIK they were always broken17:15
hengoh ok thanks17:16
jojomenHave to go. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, everybody!17:17
jojomenTake a well-deserved rest, Jolla!17:17
direc85[m]Many years ago I had Nokia 6233 which had some kind of push-to-talk. I used it with my friend for a bit and it worked fine.17:17
rainemakI want to thank you all for this year! We have clearly improved together our ways to communicate and discuss. Being it that you, Sailfish Community, have taken more role with the newsletter or that we have great discussions over here.17:18
piggz[m]👍 thanks all17:19
rainemakMerry Christmas and Happy New Year!17:19
ExTechop-Happy Holidays, and thanks everyone!17:19
ViGeHappy Holidays everyone!17:19
hengThanks and happy holidays everyone!!17:19
roundedrectanglhappy holidays everybody :)17:20
rainemakShall we schedule the next meeting -- let's give a moment for greetings :)17:20
NicoMerry christmas :317:21
direc85[m]Happy holidays everyone!17:21
ExTechop-The second Thursday after this would be the 1st of January, so I guess we skip that?17:21
rainemak#topic Next meeting time and date (2 mins)17:21
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (2 mins) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 18th December 2025)"17:21
rainemakProposing Thursday 15th January at 04:00 PM UTC17:21
direc85[m]+117:22
rainemakMy plan was that we'd start the year with a newsletter on 8th Jan17:22
rainemakand yes ExTechop- , 1st of Jan is not good17:22
mini_coe[m]Merry christmas all.17:23
ExTechop-15th would work17:23
mini_coe[m]+117:23
rainemaklet's take that17:24
rainemak#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 15th January 2026 at 04:00pm UTC: 2026-01-15T1600Z17:24
rainemakand again thank you all! it was great again as always17:24
ExTechop-Excellent, thanks folks!17:24
*** rainemak changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on January 15th 2026 at 04:00pm UTC: 2026-01-15T1600Z"17:25
direc85[m]Thank you all!17:25
rainemak#endmeeting17:25
sailbotMeeting ended Thu Dec 18 17:25:23 2025 UTC.17:25
sailbot Minutes: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-12-18-16.00.html17:25
sailbot Minutes (text): https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-12-18-16.00.txt17:25
sailbot Log: https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2025/sailfishos-meeting.2025-12-18-16.00.log.html17:25
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on December 18th 2025 at 04:00pm UTC: 2025-12-18T1600Z"17:25
*** roundedrectangl is now known as koza18:35

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