Wednesday, 2013-03-20

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GentSiriekku_, morning mate03:08
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krabadorit's possible to build it for try?04:18
iekku_lbt, i can start to speak and write finnish to you if you prefer that :P04:23
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GentSirGuess all the Europeans are getting up09:18
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niweberGentSir: are you doing night-shifts?09:19
GentSirniweber, nah, I just don't sleep much09:20
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GentSirSorry, forgot the "no English slang" rule.09:23
lbtiekku_: I think you should from time to time :D09:26
GentSirlbt, am I going to need to learn finnish?09:28
lbtseems reasonable ... I learnt 'thank you'09:28
GentSirIsn't it kiitos or kiitti?09:29
GentSirWhere kittos is the more formal version, like "Thank you" in English, and kiitti is like saying "thanks" in nglish?09:31
GentSirI can pick up programming languages easily, but I have a really hard time with spoken languages. I know in most of the world most people are taught two languages growing up, but here in the states we aren't.09:32
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niqtGentSir if you want I'll give Italian lessons :D09:38
GentSirniqt, I'm already obligated to learn German09:39
GentSirniqt, I took some spanish in secondary school, isn't Italian fairly similar?09:40
niqtthe sounds are similar, but both talk a lot with gestures :)09:43
GentSirniqt, I live in the south of Florida and there's a large Mexican-American population. So a little Spanish goes a long way.09:44
YanielGentSir: it is 'kiitos'09:57
Nicd-or 'kiitti'09:57
Nicd-or 'kiits' or 'kitoooos' or 'kts' or 'kiitoksia' or 'kiitokset' or 'kiitän' or09:58
Yanieldon't get started with what is used on IRC :D09:58
GentSirNicd-, is there really that much variation? That's what scares me about learning another spoken language, all the slang and cultural inflections I'll never be able to learn.09:59
Nicd-GentSir: the 3 last ones are formal, the rest are just slang / informal speech09:59
Nicd-and there's an infinite amount of informal speech in every language09:59
Yanielthe formal ones are in the end all 'kiitos'10:00
Nicd-except for 'kiitän' which is 'kiittää'10:00
Yaniellike 'thank you', 'thanks', 'you have my thanks'10:01
Nicd-but it's kind of different anyway10:01
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GentSirNicd-:Yes, if I posted a log of a chat with a friend on Skype/Jabber I doubt many non-native speakers would be able to read it easily. I'm only 19, there're so many informal uses of English that I actually have to concentrate to use it correctly typing here.10:01
YanielI wonder if there is a #finnish :P10:01
GentSirI actually re-read everything I type here to correct minor grammar issues that have creeped into how I use English.10:02
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iekku_lbt, hieno homma, aloitan nyt11:28
lbtkiitos ?11:28
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phakolbt: I think ole hyvää would be more correct.11:36
phakoI think11:36
phakothe finnish equivalent of "you're welcome"11:36
phakowhatever that was ;)11:36
Nicd-ole hyvä11:37
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GentSirI finally had a great app idea!12:06
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GentSirIt's an api client for a game, that's all I'll say right now :) But I use a similar app daily on my Android phone12:14
GentSirStskeeps, do you know if Python scripts can be called by native apps?12:18
GentSirThe interface will be exclusively Qt/QML, but I'm used to writing logic in Python12:19
Stskeepsmm, it's better not to assume it12:23
GentSirI guess I'll have to learn how to do http requests directly within Qt then12:23
GentSirBetter yet, all the hard application logic can just be done in C++12:27
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GentSirMorpog_Mobile, morning mate12:40
Morpog_MobileMorning all12:41
GentSirMorpog_Mobile, are you german?12:53
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Sfiet_Konstantinhello !13:04
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, morning13:05
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shmerlStskeeps: Did Sailifish apply for Google's CalDAV/CardDAV form?
shmerlThey are using whitelists now unfortunately.15:49
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: or Sailfish can implement Google calendar API15:50
Sfiet_Konstantinbut dunno if guys at Jolla want to write it from scratch15:50
Sfiet_KonstantinI'm sure that there are libs to sync with Google calendar API15:50
shmerlI doubt it's a good idea - more proprietary APIs?15:50
shmerlPlus Cal(rd)DAV is planned to be supproted in Sailfish already.15:51
shmerlSo no reason not to apply for whitelisting15:51
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: but you are depending on Google's will15:51
Sfiet_Konstantinand they might never reply to you15:52
Sfiet_Konstantinso better try all solutions15:52
shmerlYou are depending on it either way. What it the status of that API?15:52
Sfiet_Konstantinincluding other API15:52
shmerlIs it open standard or some closed stuff?15:52
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: no open standard at all15:52
Sfiet_Konstantingoogle stuff15:52
shmerlIf the later - nothing is guaranteed anyway.15:52
shmerlSo you rely on them not changing it or letting you use it at all.15:52
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, if they close everything, then we can do nothing15:52
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah, applying to whitelist is good15:53
shmerlCalDAV is not owned by them on the other hand15:53
Sfiet_Konstantinbut better use the google API as well15:53
shmerlWon't hurt to have more options of course.15:53
Sfiet_Konstantinthat's the idea15:53
shmerlI still don't get it, why they need to reinvent the wheel.15:54
shmerlUsually they don't do it.15:54
Yanielwhat is this thing about anyways?15:54
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: well, it is not reinventing the wheel15:54
Sfiet_Konstantinit is about war vs ms15:54
Sfiet_Konstantinjust to piss ms even more15:55
Sfiet_Konstantingoogle don't care about other, they care about themselves15:55
shmerlCalDAV is IETF approved standard, so MS is irrelevant really here.15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinand since MS is a threat15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinthey do anything to remove that threat15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinand they know that consumers won't go away, they are too dependant of google15:55
shmerlI don't like this trend.15:55
shmerlGoogle becomes another Apple15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: it is relevant, because MS first pushed their exchange protocol vs google15:55
Sfiet_Konstantinbut then google close it15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinthinking that MS will not think about implementing caldav15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinbut MS decided to do that15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinso google decided to go beyond15:56
shmerlYaniel: That's about syncing protocols for calendar and contacts.15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinthat's the idea, well, what I see15:56
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: I don't like that trend either15:56
YanielCalDAV is a nice protocol but why does it need to be restricted15:57
shmerlYaniel: Google decided to restrict it.15:57
shmerlI have no idea why - selfish reasons probably15:57
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: yeah15:57
Sfiet_Konstantinmeanwhile, owncloud allow caldav, carddav sync15:57
Sfiet_Konstantinis very nice15:58
Yanielso "because f*** you" apparently15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinuse owncloud :)15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinjust lacking a mail client though15:58
shmerlYeah, "don't use Google" is a good advice, but many rely on it already as you said15:58
YanielI was planning to setup radicale15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: that's true, but there is also a trend to get rid of it15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinlittle by little15:58
Sfiet_Konstantinand you can get rid of it15:58
shmerlI'm sure if they'll continue in this manner, more people will get rid of it.15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinyou don't need it for your mails15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: it already started15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinlike facebook15:59
Yaniellet's hope sailfish lives longer :)15:59
shmerlI just switched my XMPP from them to duckduckgo.15:59
Sfiet_KonstantinYaniel: :)15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: ddg is being better and better15:59
Sfiet_Konstantinstill slightly slow16:00
Yanielthat should not be a problem if Jolla stays adaptive16:00
Sfiet_Konstantinbut soon, I will switch I think16:00
Sfiet_KonstantinI think one of the strength of Sailfish will be to be independant of all web ecosystem16:00
shmerlThey have an XMPP server:
Sfiet_Konstantinand be able to profit from all16:00
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: woow good news16:00
Yanielgood news indeed16:00
shmerlIt's not even that new, I just found out about it now :)16:01
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: do you know where ddg gets money ?16:01
shmerlI'm not soure actually how they operate.16:01
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Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: because, like wikipedia, everything is nice16:02
Sfiet_Konstantinbut they should have funding somewhere16:02
shmerlSure. I saw them talking about it some time ago.16:02
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: is there video chat on ddg's server ?16:02
shmerlvideo chat in XMPP is client based (Jingle)16:02
shmerlIt should work as is.16:03
shmerlExcept for multiplexing for conferencing.16:03
shmerlThis has two options - either full multuplexing on each client, like Muji does.16:03
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shmerlBut it's heavy if you have low bandwidth.16:03
shmerlOther option was proposed by Jitsi team - a XEP for server multiplexing.16:04
shmerlBoth aren't widely adopted yet.16:04
shmerlPidgin for example doesn't support any conferencing yet.16:04
shmerlBut 1:1 video is supported in many clients already.16:05
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: cool :)16:05
Sfiet_Konstantinsomething to replace skype one day maybe16:05
GentSirI've been using a gmail address for the last 5 years, there's no way I could completely kick google16:05
shmerlGentSir: Just migrate your e-mail :)16:05
shmerlAnd set up forwarding if you need to.16:06
GentSirshmerl, migrate it where?16:06
shmerlAnywhere you wish.16:06
GentSirIt's a PITA to run my own mail server.16:06
shmerlThere are enough e-mail providers if you want to switch16:06
shmerlIt's the question of trust.16:06
shmerlI'd say Google isn't the worst.16:06
shmerlBut they aren't the best either16:06
GentSirAnything important that goes through my gmail is encrypted16:06
shmerlSure, then it doesn't matter much which server you use.16:07
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Yanielmost shell providers also provide email so you get email + ssh access which is nice16:07
GentSirIt's impossible for me to use the webmail for gmail because of that, but it's worth the tradeoff16:07
Yanielesp. if they allow irc clients on the shell16:07
shmerlI rarely use webmail. Mostly Thunderbird.16:07
GentSirI use Thunderbird on my desktop and laptop, and K-9 mail on my Android phone16:08
GentSirI've got it nicely setup with my keyrings, all my mail stored locally so I can search it, etc16:09
shmerlAbout video multiplexing proposals for XMPP see:
GentSirJitsi is cool, but Skype is the standard, and it's pretty much impossible to dislodge it for the casual users16:10
shmerlHere is about Muji approach:
shmerlI don't use Skype really.16:11
shmerlCan't say it's "standard".16:11
GentSirI have some contacts that use it exclusively, it's a pain16:11
GentSirI'm using it right now16:11
Sfiet_Konstantinseems to work :)16:11
shmerlJitsi try to make a standard XEP for server solution, since Google as usual made proprietary stuff with "hangouts" that others can't use.16:13
shmerlI.e. server multiplexer for video.16:13
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: thanks !16:13
Sfiet_Konstantinnow I know how to replace that MSN messenger stuff16:13
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Sfiet_Konstantinhello Naranek16:14
Sfiet_Konstantinhello nsuffys16:14
Sfiet_Konstantinhow are you16:14
GentSirI'm all for open standards, it's a shame Google is going evil16:14
shmerlI hope Sailfish will have a decent XMPP client with video support :)16:15
GentSirshmerl, I'm sure somebody in the community will make it. That's the beauty of open source16:16
Sfiet_Konstantinworks also on the N9 :)16:17
nsuffyshi guys ! :)16:17
Sfiet_Konstantinhow are you ?16:17
nsuffysSfiet_Konstantin, fine and you ?16:17
Sfiet_Konstantinnot a very long day nsuffys16:17
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, what works on the n9, Jitsi?16:17
shmerlnsuffys: Hi16:17
Sfiet_Konstantinwhen will you make a vid about Sailfish on the Wetab16:17
Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: no, just plain jabber chat16:17
shmerljabber chat works there with some hacks (using telepathy tools).16:18
shmerlI.e. the UI didn't support it by default16:18
nsuffysSfiet_Konstantin, need a qwerty keyboard :/16:18
Sfiet_Konstantinnsuffys: why ? :(16:18
Sfiet_Konstantinshmerl: it works with the extra accounts stuff16:19
nsuffyscan't connect with SSH on Sailfish on my Wetab16:20
Sfiet_Konstantinnsuffys: and the wetab do not have KBD ?16:21
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Sfiet_Konstantinhello fk_lx16:23
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GentSirIs there a list of hardware Sailfish is currently running on?16:27
shmerlI'd guess it's the same where you can port Mer and Nemo.16:27
shmerlSupposedly libhybris expands it even wider, but I didn't see many examples of that published.16:28
GentSirMy N9 is getting shipped down from up north, but everyone dodges the question of Sailfish on the N916:29
shmerlYou can take a look how Nemo can be run there.16:29
shmerlSailfish probably would use exactly the same approach.16:29
GentSirI thought Sailfish was currently only x86 only?16:30
GentSirDrop that second "only"16:30
shmerlImages aren't released anyway.16:30
JonniGentSir: sailfish OS does not currently run anywhere, as sailfish OS has not been released. Sailfish SDK runs publicly on x86 only.16:31
shmerlJonni: I'm sure it's running somewhere for Sailfish developers internally :)16:31
GentSirshmerl, there are videos of it running on an N9 and I believe an N950, so it's certainly possible...16:31
GentSirBut I understand the reason those images can't be released16:32
JonniGentSir: but if armhf rootfs is released at some point, then community can port it on any device that they want to, like N950, N9, N900, [insert any armhf device here].16:32
shmerlIt should be. But so far it relies on older kernel. I don't think new kernel adaptation became functional.16:32
GentSirIt's a shame Jolla isn't targeting the american market16:32
shmerl(I mean N9 one)16:32
shmerlThey said it's because they want to avoid patents mess in the beginning - it's reasonable.16:33
shmerlUS is a huge mess.16:33
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GentSirshmerl, our legal system is very lawsuit friendly16:34
shmerlBut it still might be possible to buy it here. I'd worry about the warranty only.16:34
shmerlIt's not jsut about lawsuit - it's about totally crooked patent law.16:34
GentSirI won't argue with that16:35
GentSirIt's pretty much whoever has the deeper pockets wins16:35
shmerlN9 wasn't targeted for US either, but you could buy it on Newegg16:35
shmerlThey just imported it somehow.16:35
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GentSirI know Jolla is going for an initial Chinese release, and luckily I have family there16:36
GentSirSo I could get my uncle to buy it on my behalf and ship it16:36
GentSirHopefully they're compatible with HSPA+ or american LTE bands16:36
shmerlThey didn't comment on any frequencies yet.16:36
shmerlSo no idea.16:37
GentSirI'm hoping they take the N9 approach16:37
GentSirPack every frequency that can be supported in one device16:37
shmerlPreferably they should support a wide range of networks.16:37
shmerlIs it possible to support LTE and regular 3G GSM?16:37
shmerlOr they are mutually exclusive?16:38
GentSirGSM is GSM16:38
shmerlLTE is the next generation of GSM, right?16:38
GentSirGSM is exclusively for calls/texts16:38
GentSirIt's the frequency the dumbphones of the olden days used16:38
GentSir3g is HSPA16:39
shmerlI thought it's generic name for the standard.16:39
Sfiet_Konstantindamn so much names16:39
GentSirFor the call/text standard16:39
dm8tbrgeeze, just go read wikipedia on the stuff16:39
GentSir3G is HSPA16:39
dm8tbrno it's not16:39
Sfiet_Konstantindm8tbr: I went ...16:39
GentSiroh, my apologies16:40
dm8tbrHSPA is improved bandwith inside the 3G bracket16:40
shmerlI.e. I view LTE as GSM evolved.16:40
dm8tbrLTE is the next step after 3G16:40
GentSirHSPA+ was marketed as 4g by many american carriers16:41
dm8tbrwhich is exactly that. marketing16:41
shmerlall those 3/4g names are way confusing.16:41
shmerlDon't rely on them.16:41
GentSirI have an Atrix 2, and it displays my mobile connection as "4g" even though it only has an HSPA+ antenna and not an LTE one16:41
dm8tbra _common_ evolution path would be: GSM → HSCSD → GPRS → EDGE → WCDMA → HSPA → HSPA+ → LTE16:42
GentSirMost people fall for the marketing though. Many a teenage girl believes the iPhone 4/s = 4G16:42
Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: iP5 = 5G ?16:43
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, I'm sure plenty believe that...16:43
Sfiet_Konstantinyou are running windows 8, I'mrunnign windows 9816:43
GentSirdm8tbr, that's how I always thought it went16:43
shmerlStandards are complex. I have no idea how most people figure it out easily and their frequencies as well.16:43
shmerlI mean non technical people.16:44
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin, reminds me of how Firefox went to their rapid release cycle to "catch up" with the version numbers of Chomr16:44
dm8tbrdrawing clear cuts between 2G and 3G and 4th generation is not quite easy16:44
GentSirdm8tbr, I have a HAM license and I'm pretty adept at understanding the technical issues behind it. The marketing BS and FUD still confuses me sometimes.16:45
Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: well, that's a way of numbering16:45
Sfiet_Konstantinnor a problem16:45
shmerldm8tbr: Does LTE mandate the usage of simcards?16:45
GentSirSfiet_Konstantin: It just shows how people assume a higher version number means a better product16:45
Sfiet_KonstantinGentSir: that's true at least16:45
dm8tbrshmerl: I haven't read the standard, but there must be some sort of secure subscriber module, so most likely16:45
GentSirshmerl, here in the states it does16:46
shmerlSo in that sense it should be at least as flexible as 3G GSM, unlike CDMA which doesn't let switching providers.16:47
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GentSirWhich is why I like HSPA/+, all the major carriers support it. The carriers that have LTE all operate on separate bands16:50
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shmerlT-Mobile is supposed to get LTE soon.16:54
shmerlI hope Jolla's hardware will support all LTE frequencies.16:55
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GentSirshmerl, I'm not sure how hard it is to do that16:59
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shmerlHard to say - looks like there are lot's of frequencies there:
shmerlGood radio can support them all, but I have no idea how SoCs implement it.17:07
GentSirshmerl, LTE in the states it a mess. In the actual implementation, but more so from the legal standpoint17:08
shmerlHow is it?17:08
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GentSirshmerl, the US is sue happy17:11
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Stskeepsevening thp17:24
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thpStskeeps: hey ;)18:36
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