Thursday, 2013-05-23

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wspilotanyone knows where to find documentation about silica signals?08:17
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GentSirwspilot, I personally looked at the example stuff in the SDK. I found it much more enlightening that reading English documentation.08:19
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wspilotfinding all component mebers/signals: give component an id type idname plus "." and qtcreator will list them09:04
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lozdoes sailfish use x or wayland now?11:50
Nicd-afaik X11:50
lozis there any plans for wayland?11:51
Nicd-no idea11:51
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, Wayland is the future11:51
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Nicd-what's better in wayland?11:51
lozdont know, just wondering11:52
lozhow updates will come to sailfish? will it be something like android, where a few companies support few devices for a few years?11:53
Sfiet_Konstantinloz: no idea11:54
Sfiet_KonstantinNicd-: what's better ? better perfs :)11:54
Sfiet_Konstantinsimpler architecture11:54
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Nicd-perfs as in performance?11:57
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TheBootroowhat a shame, on every jolla phone video i can find, the only few apps we can see are : gallery, message, clock, notes, calendar.... what about music player ? email client ? web browser ?  are they ready already?  and i saw great FB integration but what about G+ ? i hope we get at least basic integration of it, unlike in N9....12:05
lozTheBootroo: i saw media app, google better12:06
YanielI caught a glimpse of Jolla Store too...12:06
TheBootrooloz: yeah i saw video player in fullscreen mode so no tip about controls12:06
TheBootrooYaniel: really ?12:06
TheBootrooYaniel: pics or it didn't happened :-P12:06
lozand official support of android apps is ok for beginning12:07
yuntaTheBootroo: iirc, we've shown musicplayer already on slush, last year12:07
Nicd-G+ integration is hard because G+ does not have a write API12:07
lozTheBootroo: controls? jolla has guestures12:07
TheBootrooyunta: i hope it has been enhanced cause i didn't liked it that much, big squares with not fitted text in it, too much WP-like IMHO12:07
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lozTheBootroo: new G+ is too much WP-like too, lol12:08
loznobody cares12:08
TheBootrooloz: there are necessarely some controls like position seeker, etc12:08
TheBootrooloz: new G+ has really better aesthetics12:09
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sledgesnemo-qml-plugin-social will enable integration. I hope there's workaround for g+ API, though diaspora should be piece of cake (who uses that ?...)12:10
TheBootroosledges: why should we need a workaround ?12:10
sledgesTheBootroo, 13:07 < Nicd-> G+ integration is hard because G+ does not have a write API12:10
Yaniel around 00:41, bottom right corner corner of the screen12:10
lozTheBootroo: player at 2:3412:11
Nicd-sledges: have you tried asking Google btw? surely they have a non-public API for their own software12:11
sledgeson the same note Nicd- : how did harmattan (Nokia N9) stock facebook app did not ask to enable a fb app before you started using it?12:12
sledgesmost probably Nokia had agreement with FB12:12
sledgesso there will be one in order for sailfish<->g+ to work12:12
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TheBootroosledges: G+ is more and more used now, and i'm deleting my FB account very soon, i need G+ (posts, albums, chat, events)12:13
Nicd-would be cool if google ported their G+ app to Sailfish :)12:13
sledges:) over their dead body12:13
sledgeslooking at how google is becoming evil by dropping xmpp support for gtalk...12:13
Nicd-it's on iOS already12:13
sledgesi'd cal that 'standing on the shoulders of two giants' :))12:15
sledgesbut surely, stay positive; fingers cross(compile)d :D12:15
sledgesif they opened their api , community would prop up a g+ social plugin in no time..12:16
Nicd-sadly they're being stupid a bout it12:16
sledgesi wonder if that's possible in somehow semi-open way (like api works only with sailfish -- 13:11 < Nicd-> sledges: have you tried asking Google btw? ...)12:16
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TheBootrooin one of the videos with chief designer, i think i heard jolla will post new videos of their progress weekly ! is that for real ?12:20
lozany point in installing nemo in n900?12:20
TheBootroo(and when will it start ? next week ?)12:20
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ottuloTheBootroo: they said "weekly updates" and mentioned videos, but after that said they might not be weekly but monthly instead, depending on the progress12:21
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TheBootrooottulo: :-(12:22
ottuloso I wouldn't expect anything new until maybe 2-4 weeks from now at the earliest12:22
TheBootroolong waiting iznogood for heart/brain12:22
ottulothen again, I followed another company run a similar teaser/hype program before their product release12:22
sledgesloz, it's still in alpha, but people use it. depends how jaded you are with maemo cssu (further discussion: #nemomobile pls ;) )12:23
ottulothe closer we get to release, the more and more often they give out info :)12:23
lozdo you plan that mobile manufacturers will make jolla devices?12:23
lozsledges: i have latest cssu installed)12:23
lozwhat for i would get n900 else12:24
ottuloloz: they've said ages ago that licensing the OS to use by other manufacturers is part of the business model12:24
ottuloso yes, there most probably will be other manufacturers' devices running Sailfish if it succeeds12:25
lozottulo: im worry about updates support, wich is really pain with android12:26
sledgesloz, doesn't cost anything to try nemo out12:26
sledgesfrom sd card12:26
lozottulo: and finally only goole updates theyr nexus properlu12:26
sledgesknow that it uses same mw as sailfish12:27
lozsledges: mw?12:27
sledgesand perfect playground to develop system apps/social plugins/what not in the middleware layer whilst waiting for sailfish arm port12:27
lozhm, what middleware is there? i though its kernel -> X -> qt 5 ?12:28
ottuloloz: I don't know how they plan to push the updates, I remember hearing something about it in an interview but not much12:28
ottulothe idea I got was that the updates will be carrier independent, but I really am not sure12:28
lozhope they will really be12:29
sledgesloz: kernel -> x -> qt4 -> qml - this is the UI path12:30
lozsledges: so what is middleware?12:30
sledgesmw: kernel -> daemons(device state, power management)/messaging(dbus)12:30
sledgesall the communication under the bonnet12:30
sledgesbetween ui and hardware12:30
lozok, got it12:30
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sledgesscheduler to check your emails/social feeds, sw updates, media indexer, ... endless examples12:32
lozjust demos i saw were a bit slow12:33
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sledgesloz, ?12:35
sledges(sorry everyone else for the ongoing off-topic ;) )12:35
lozsledges: i mean every app is starting for a long time, or its ok?12:36
sledgesget the fastest sd card you can ;)12:37
lozhm, so on internal memory it will be nice?12:37
sledgeshaven't met anyone who tried to be that brave :)12:38
lozhehe, okey12:38
sledgesapp start time not overly optimised I think, so will feel a bit bottleneckish (i feel that on n9 or pandaboard)12:39
sledgesbut never been an issue personally12:39
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lozsledges: but sailfish is based on nemo, so realease should be soon, or not?12:42
sledgesi thought they will release arm sailfish port together with sdk back in 2012 november slush event12:42
sledgesbut they didn't, I simply couldn't wait :D12:42
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lozsledges: is it possible to run android apps on nemo?13:03
sledgesnow not13:04
sledgesbut if someone adapted dalvik ;)13:04
lozbut how sailfish runs them then?13:05
sledgesis alien dalvik opensource?13:05
sledgesloz, through ^13:05
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reindeernixsledges, Dalvik is under Apache license13:09
sledgesreindeernix, which means? (/me could never find "licencing explained in human language" tutorial :D)13:09
lozits open source, but what for alien dalvik is then?13:10
reindeernixsledges, It's free as in freedom and opensource :)13:10
sledges:D got ya13:10
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loz>no loss in performance13:13
lozdont they use a vm?13:13
reindeernixDalvik engine is a VM13:14
reindeernixOr a part of it13:14
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lozso how can they say there is no loss in performance?13:14
reindeernixWell it has no loss in performance compared to Android13:14
reindeernixI think that's what they mean13:15
reindeernixOh wait that's because it's compiled into bytecode or something13:15
reindeernixI think the Dalvik Engine runs the Java bytecode which is close to native performance or something13:16
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sledgesthose were early proof of concepts:
sledgesgood old thanks to Stskeeps for digging those out13:26
sledgesbut i don't think that's anyhow related to what alien dalvik does13:27
sledgesjust a two year old effort sank in the sea unnoticed13:27
sledgesmaybe some ideas re-used..13:28
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Sfiet_Konstantinsledges: o/14:30
Sfiet_Konstantinspeaking of social, I'm hacking it right now, and ...14:30
Sfiet_KonstantinFacebook API is a PIECE OF CRAP14:30
Yanielwhy me no surprised14:30
TheBootrooSfiet_Konstantin: agreed14:31
* yunta is happy he doesn't have facebook account14:31
Sfiet_Konstantinnobody should be surprised14:31
TheBootrooSfiet_Konstantin: Facebook -[A-P-I]- is a PIECE OF CRAP14:31
Sfiet_Konstantinfortunately I have that generator that basically do all the job for me, writing boilerplate C++ / Qt code14:32
Sfiet_KonstantinYaniel: nope14:34
Sfiet_Konstantina custom python script I wrote14:34
Sfiet_Konstantinspecifically tuned for generating code for the Facebook API <> Nemo Social bridge14:35
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sailfishoshey guys16:04
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nemomobilehello sailfishos !16:06
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Sfiet_Konstantinthanks sledges16:08
sledgesSfiet_Konstantin, ? :)16:08
Sfiet_Konstantinto be named nemomobile :P16:09
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Sfiet_Konstantinfrench don't translate well16:09
Sfiet_Konstantin"thank you someone" in french irony implies "thank you for wasting our time doing something useless"16:09
sledgessorry for doing something useless, it was more of an answer to our fellow sailfishos :))16:10
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locusfare there any example projects (either community or Jolla) about networking? I'm trying to use QSslSocket, I can write but can't read responses from the socket17:49
Sfiet_Konstantinor ?17:52
locusfSfiet_Konstantin: thanks! I'll see if thats enough17:53
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wspilotdevl list is very silent last days... are they all still partying?18:00
Sfiet_Konstantinwspilot: if there is no questions, there is no answers :18:00
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wspiloti posted quite a pile..18:01
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, a lot of questions might not be able to be replide18:03
Sfiet_Konstantinwithout proper hw18:03
Sfiet_Konstantin(especially the sensors ones for example)18:03
wspilotthru, but i am working on opengl, c++<>qml18:05
Sfiet_Konstantinyeah, I remember18:05
Sfiet_Konstantinbut i don't remember your questions18:05
wspilothave some solutions, but not sure if they are valid18:05
Sfiet_Konstantinthe problem is that if you want QML + OpenGL, it might be better to use Qt518:06
Sfiet_Konstantinwith their awesome scenegraph architecture18:06
wspilotmaybe a topic for the wiki18:06
Sfiet_Konstantinbut Sailfish is not Qt 5 yet18:06
Sfiet_Konstantin(at least, silica is not)18:06
wspilotso, i am not sure which way to go; lot of c++ /gui to change to qml18:07
Sfiet_KonstantinI think (personnal opinion) that QML is easier to use18:08
Sfiet_Konstantinbut never used a lot of C++ / OpenGL code in my apps18:08
wspiloti now have QGLWidget slammed on top of silica page. It works.., but is that stable?18:09
Sfiet_Konstantinno, if they migrate to Qt518:09
Sfiet_Konstantinotherwise, yes18:09
Sfiet_Konstantinit is the "way to do that" in Qt4 it seems18:09
wspilotLot to change when Qt5 is used (that is: Qt5.02+, lower 5 won allow qml + QGLWiget)18:11
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, you might want to use QtQuick 2.018:12
Sfiet_Konstantin(you can still do that in a widgets based app)18:12
Sfiet_Konstantinbut using QtQuick 2, and trying to get perf, you might need to create a QQuickItem that integrates with the scene graph18:12
wspilotsounds complex. think I'll stick to qtquick 1.1 + QGLWiget.18:14
Sfiet_Konstantinwspilot: should not be that complex i think18:16
Sfiet_Konstantinthough i have no knowledge in Qt + OpenGL18:16
locusfhmm ssl errors18:16
YanielI'm interested in OpenGL on sailfish too18:17
wspilotthe only widget is the qglwidget, rest is/will be qml18:17
Yanielbut fortunately I'm too busy to play around with it until the device is out :P18:17
wspilotmy emulator has problems with opengl, possibly hardware-virtualbox issue18:19
Sfiet_Konstantinwspilot: I think18:20
Sfiet_Konstantinbetter develop it out of the emulator in desktop18:20
Sfiet_Konstantin(develop only the silica specific code in emulator)18:20
wspilotit already works on desktop (as c++ widget program). Already asked for silica for desktop (for testing), but that is not available18:22
Sfiet_Konstantinwspilot: yeah, not available18:23
Sfiet_Konstantinthen, I think the best is to wait18:23
Sfiet_Konstantin(either device or better SDK)18:23
wspilotmaybe best to stick to desktop with plain qml, replacing the latter later with silica (if not to much work...)18:25
Sfiet_Konstantinwspilot: yeah, not a bad idea i guess18:25
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afazekasWhere can I find the detailed specification of the ?18:44
Nicd-there is no more info than that yet18:44
afazekasI am mostly interested in  OTG, compass, (fast) GPS, Wifi18:49
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HL_One dummy question. Is it possible to develop apps with pyside to sailfish and if so is there brief instructions how to get started?19:26
Sfiet_Konstantinjust like developing plain Qt apps in python with pyside19:26
Sfiet_Konstantinjust use the Silica components inside QML19:26
HL_And the sailfish emulator understands python?19:28
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locusfthe emulator does have python interpreter, so yes19:32
reindeernixlocusf, Wait as standard?19:32
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locusfbut pyside. no idea19:32
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locusfreindeernix: ssh in and see for yourself19:32
reindeernixHmm interesting19:33
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locusfand its another ball game to get it integrated to qt creator19:34
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locusfI'm actually developing a deluge client and I run python from qprocess to access rencode module19:35
locusfdeluge == bittorrent software19:36
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HL_Thanks for answers, seems that I have to begin practicing :)19:38
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Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: ping thomas perl (thp or thp4 on twitter) he is a sort of living god for everything related to PythonQt19:38
locusfSfiet_Konstantin: ok, good to know19:39
locusfbtw package request to SDK devs: python-devel19:40
locusfit would be much prettier for me to use python modules ISO qprocess call to python interpreter and then coding inline pythob19:41
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Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: but I still don't understand, what's the problem with pyside right now ?20:05
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locusfSfiet_Konstantin: nothing afaik :)20:42
Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: :)20:42
locusfSfiet_Konstantin: I mentioned that its probably not included in sailfish emulatpr20:43
Sfiet_Konstantinlocusf: it should be20:43
Sfiet_Konstantinzypper is your friend20:43
Sfiet_Konstantinzypper se side20:43
locusfare the jolla repos open btw?20:43
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat do you mean by "jolla repo"20:44
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locusfzypper repos20:44
locusfI'll check it out tomorrow20:45
Sfiet_Konstantinwell, the base is open20:45
Sfiet_Konstantinlike Mer / Nemo MW20:45
Sfiet_Konstantinand also some HW adaptation20:45
Sfiet_Konstantinbut silica is not available from the repos20:46
Sfiet_Konstantinnot is the Jolla plugin to mcompositor or the lipstick homescreen20:46
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