Sunday, 2013-11-24

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artemmaanybody with a real device here? Try my flashlight app. Hopefully it's according to all new harbour standards, I need to test it -
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TheBootrooI just submitted my very first Sailfish app on harbour02:27
TheBootroobut i have two questions :02:27
TheBootroowhy couldn't i create arm packages ? i was forced to upload the x86 ones because my environment didn't want to create ARM ones02:28
TheBootroowhen/who will do the QA ?02:28
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lpotterTheBootroo: any errors from creator?04:45
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coderusTheBootroo: you should upload only ARM packages to Harbour04:59
coderusTheBootroo: its Build - Deploy project *projectname*05:00
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crevetorHi guys, I have a weird problem when I try to run one of my apps in the emulator :06:25
crevetor/usr/bin/bikster-sailfish: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/ undefined symbol: _ZTIN22QWindowSystemInterface16TouchEventFilterE06:26
crevetordoes that mean that the version of is not the same as the one in my build env ?06:26
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dm8tbrthat sounds intriguing...07:59
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coderusdm8tbr: what are you talking about? :D08:05
dm8tbr06:26:01< crevetor> /usr/bin/bikster-sailfish: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/ undefined symbol: _ZTIN22QWindowSystemInterface16TouchEventFilterE08:09
dm8tbr06:26:26< crevetor> does that mean that the version of is not the same as the one in my build env ?08:09
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coderusi think content not synced between build target and sdk10:35
coderussomething installed manually in xterm10:35
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TheBootroocoderus: i tried, compilation went fine, deploy failed with message "no valid --device on step rpm"10:45
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TheBootroohelp me to generate ARM rpm with SDK11:08
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TheBootroook succeeded11:23
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artemmaJonni: ping11:36
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TheBootroowho does QA validation on Harbour ?11:55
coderusQA is busy due to Harbour policy updates11:56
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coderusand SDK updates too11:56
artemmayou know decision to forbid package downloads and keep everything you need in your own app folder is not that bad actually. iOS works just fine this way. Somebody just needs to create a couple of good wrapping examples (particularly about standard Qt modules) and think about the device-app upgrade options11:59
artemmajust sharing thoughts11:59
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dm8tbrniiiiiice, the ARM binary for bittorrent-sync runs on the Jolla \o/12:00
dm8tbrwho wants to write a small installer/wrapper?12:00
artemmadm8tbr: who wants to download torrents to their phone?12:02
artemmajust kidding, I know geeks will love it for no reason, just for tech beauty :)12:02
dm8tbrartemma: no, bt-sync, different story12:02
Bysmyyrartemma: not torrents, its like dropbox12:02
artemmaah, indeed, that's cool12:02
artemmanow I remember12:02
artemmalike your own dropbox12:02
Nicd-"Secure, unlimited file-syncing. No butt required."12:03
dm8tbrBysmyyr: not really. it's more like distributed and automated syncing12:03
Nicd-good to know12:03
dm8tbras dropbox major selling point is also a public http accessible storage, which doesn't exist here, unless you add that by running it on your webserver yourself12:03
dm8tbractually, I totally should do that...12:04
Bysmyyrdm8tbr: yes, but for user it looks like dropbox(if you use dropbox with client12:04
Nicd-"Sync only stores your files on the devices you allow -- never in my butt." :D12:04
* artemma is switching again to BB10 today and just hit their dropbox implementation annoyance. It works just great, dropbox simply becomes a part of your file system, but.. if you keep 10GB of stuff there it eats 10GB of your device file storege12:04
BysmyyrI think you can modify settings which folders are synced to which device12:05
artemmafunny, how when you take mobile into account it modifies even basic services design12:05
Bysmyyrat least my linux client allows that12:05
artemmaBysmyyr: not from the device client for sure (and I checked client, it looks like it's the same BB10 interface they implement)12:05
artemmamaybe on the web12:05
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artemmaanyway, I like iOS/Android implementation much more: all your files are *accessible*, but you choose which ones are actually kept in sync12:06
artemma+ camera upload is handy for screenshots12:06
artemmaso by-sync will probably need to think of similar things12:07
Nicd-I should start running bt-sync on my server12:07
TheBootroocoderus: so you mean apps won't be approved before a quite long time ?12:07
Nicd-bittorrent-sync requires open ports on the "host", right?12:10
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dm8tbrNicd-: not sure, it seems to use standard BT stuff, so you might get away with closed ports. but if the nat traversal isn't augumented you'll have a stall in case both clients are behind NAT12:12
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Nicd-it doesn't seem to use intermediary servers so if I pull from machine A, machine A needs ports open12:13
dm8tbrI'm planning to add some transparent file based encryption for files that I want to have better secured12:13
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coderusTheBootroo: right :)14:03
coderusTheBootroo: and i'm 98% sure you packaged your project with 90x90 icon inside, so package will be rejected.14:03
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TheBootroocoderus: i made icon at same size as the one of the template project14:04
TheBootroonot my fault if template is wrong, though14:04
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coderusTheBootroo: sure. you need to wait SDK update and rebuild project and then publish it14:05
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TheBootroowait, always wait, can't wait anymore !14:06
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Snurppahmm.. any ideas why sailfishos emulator doesn't display mouse pointer anymore? it worked OK  a week ago.. i can't test anything because emulator doesn't respond to clicks (as it's not showing cursor either)..16:35
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JonniSnurppa: maybe just need a reboot? :)16:57
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artemmaJonni: png17:30
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artemmaoups I was disconnected from IRC and not sure which messages were actually sent. Sorry, if I spam with the double messages then17:32
artemmaAnybody with a real device willing to try my flashlight app? Should satisfy new harbour requirements - RPM is here -
artemmaIt would be very kind of you if you could run the harbour check script on the RPM17:33
SnurppaJonni: rebooted few times - same problem, but rebooted just one more time - works now :)17:35
artemmaaard_: ping17:36
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aard_artemma: pong17:36
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artemmaaard_: you have real device don't you? ;)17:36
artemmaand maybe git harbour check scripts at hand too? ;)17:37
aard_not at hand right now, but accessible17:37
artemmaRumors tell (actually hopes tell) that my flashlight now satisfies all new requirements17:37
artemmaso I am willing to try contacting harbour care for a chance to have it approved by the launch date, but I'd like to be 100% sure by checking first17:38
artemmaso far they don't seem to reply to mails at all, so they are unlikely to read two mails from me17:38
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artemmaand well, you can just use flashlight for fun and finding keys :)17:39
aard_looking into the flash was not the brightest idea17:42
Yanielwas that a pun?17:43
artemmaaard_: how did it look? :)17:45
artemmaI mean flashlight, not the idea :)17:45
artemmaaard_: good17:45
aard_and one time switched to steady light17:45
Yanielsteady light? cool17:46
artemmaaard_: that's the limit of possibilities unfortunately. How about the text under the button? Readable colors? Not too clever to lengthy?17:46
artemma*not too lengthy17:46
artemmatoo long* - whichever way you say it in English :)17:47
artemmaNow I only need somebody with the harbour check script and I can resubmit and email harbour17:49
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Snurppasorry i have some newbie questions as i'm trying to learn qt/qml.. i'm looking at sailfish sdk mediagallery example, in where there is a SilicaListView used for displaying one image (with ListView.SnapOneItem).. I've been trying to add a pulley-menu which should have some image-specific tools, like "add caption".. The problem is i don't really know how to add pulldownmenu for each image displayed inside the SilicaListView... Should the delegate Image17:53
Snurppa -> i tried to add it under SilicaListView, but that obviously isn't working :)17:56
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coderusSnurppa: i think you doing it wrong18:51
coderusSnurppa: PullDownMenu is not for delegates. Only for flickable.18:52
coderusSnurppa: you should use ContextMenu instead18:52
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xowaphello sailors19:20
xowapany idea where I can find the sdk's source code?19:20
xowapspecifically, I'm trying to figure out what the hell SailfishApp::main() does19:21
Yanielpretty much what QApplication::main() would do I think19:22
Yanielwhy do you want to know?19:23
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xowapI'd like to bind some things to QML19:24
xowapbut can't figure out the right order to call stuff si the window shows and the app runs19:24
xowapas of now, I can get a white screen, which is a progression in comparison to the app not showing at all, but still a but lagging behind a direct call to ::main() which will load everything :D19:25
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YanielI usually set up stuff in my *Application constructor19:27
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xowapso you just ignore the SailfishApp ?19:31
YanielI derive it?19:31
xowapand you overload application() so you can generate your own application class19:33
Yanielactually I don't have a class called SailfishApplication in my code19:35
Yanielbut that is based on the old template19:35
xowapwell, I'm starting from the skeleton created by the newest SDK19:35
YanielI do have files called sailfishapplication.{cpp,h}19:36
xowapI have a sailfishapp.h19:36
xowapbut no source19:36
Yanielhmm mind pasting the header somewhere?19:37
xowapit's basically that :
xowapthe QML documentation is quite easy to get, but seriously there is a lot to write about how to fucking stick it to C++ code19:39
xowapbtw I tried something like
xowapbut "file:///opt/sdk/HelloSailfish/usr/share/HelloSailfish/qml/pages/FirstPage.qml:80: ReferenceError: answer is not defined"19:40
xowaphuhu I must be missing some stuff in my QML code19:42
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Yanielsorry for the delay, I'm trying to multitask more than I should ^^ (making dinner, checking your code and fiddling with a skype call over a horrible connection)19:47
xowaphaha, no issue, same here19:48
Yanielhmm my template still looks the same19:53
Yanielit seems to me like you should either call SailfishApp::main() or SailfishApp::create* and last show()19:58
YanielI'm guessing view->show()19:58
Yanielbut only one of those two19:59
Yanielso in your case no SailfishApp::main()19:59
xowapmaybe I'll try that19:59
xowapjust did
xowapI can read the default value I've set (10)20:00
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xowapbut when I write it, it does not show up in the UI20:00
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xowapso yeah looks like I've got to do main()'s work by hand20:00
xowapwell, which brings me back to asking its source code :D20:01
xowapif any jolla dev reads me :320:01
Yanielyou have it right there20:01
Yaniela rough outline of it20:01
xowapyet the question being, I've got to run the app at some point20:02
xowapdo I end up with app->run() ?20:02
xowapdamn I've been through too much Java20:02
xowapis it what you thought about ?20:03
xowapthis is what I first tried, but I get a white screen doing that20:04
xowapoh, I missed something, actually when I read the answer it fails20:05
xowapthe qvariant is invalid20:05
Yanieldid you ever tell the view what qml file to load :D20:05
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xowapwell, isn't SailfishApp supposed to do it for me?20:07
YanielSailfishApp::main() yes20:07
Yanielbut for the other way it would make sense that you have to specify it20:08
xowapespecially since they hand you out the pathTo() method20:09
Yanielbtw reinstalled and now I too have the new header20:10
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xowaphooray, I'm not crazy20:12
xowapstill doesn't work though20:12
Yanielstill a white screen?20:12
xowapdamn that was the file location that was wrong20:13
xowapit works now20:13
xowapthanks Yaniel20:13
Yanieloh and you might need to set your view to the central view of your application20:13 what I was about to sau20:13
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xowapI might need to20:14
xowapyet, how do I do it?20:14
xowapwait, aren't you confusing it with a MainWindow ?20:15
Yanielit is a long time since I last used Qt20:16
Yanieleven longer since QML20:16
xowapyeah, me too20:17
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xowapoh for QML it's been a very long time20:17
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xowaplike about the eternity20:17
Yanielbut it would make sense to have to tell the application about your view :D20:17
xowapin some way20:17
xowapbut if I remember well, any widget without a parent becomes a window20:18
xowapso I guess it's the same with QML views20:18
Yanielwell whatever works :D20:18
xowapin the end, it's all that matters :)20:19
xowapso really, this code should be documented somewhere, because it's going to be needed if you want to write anything less trivial than a hello world20:21
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Yanielyes that code path deserves its own section or even page20:21
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artemmaxowap: I created such a project for my own reference (and for others too) -
artemmatoo bad it assumes oldest public SDK standards and ignores .yaml (I went for pure .spec)20:28
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artemmaI plan to update it to new standards when next SDK is out20:28
artemmapull requests are greatly welcome too though20:28
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TechieElfHello all. What devices are supported by this OS? Also, do you allow developers to port the OS to new devices?20:45
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TechieElfAnyone active here?20:47
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leinirsure, loads, just not right now ;)20:48
leinirthe majority of the people who would know answers to that question are in the European time zones (mostly the +1 and +2 ones), and it's Sunday night :)20:49
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TechieElfleinir: I have this problem wherever I go >.< it kills to be American sometimes20:50
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stephgTechieElf 'supported' I guess is technically only one device currently20:55
TechieElfstephg: Any ways to port?20:56
leinirwell, the first, and perhaps most important, step would be to port mer20:56
wmarone_no devices are officially supported other than the eventual Jolla device20:56
stephgMer is at the core of Sailfish and is entirely, entirely open20:57
TechieElfstephg: Ah, I see. Looking into it now20:58
stephgthe hardware adaptation below it is dependent on the manufacturer (in this case Jolla) and the UX also (again, here Jolla)20:58
TechieElfWell I have a Moto Droid Razr M so we'll see just how far I can get20:59
wmarone_TechieElf: unlocked?20:59
TechieElfwmarone_: yes, with aosp 4.4 :D21:00
wmarone_ok good21:00
wmarone_ don't trust motorola21:00
TechieElfMotorola is well,....21:00
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faenilVenemo, hey21:29
Venemohi faenil :)21:29
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artemmaTechieElf: in theory anything with Android hardware is supported technically (pretty much mer requirements). In practice Sailfish OS contains closed components and you are better of for #nemomobile - same middlewhere, but different (they say good) UI21:40
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TechieElfartemma: Thanks21:40
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artemmaan interesting option could be to take nemo and port Sailfish OS Silica Controls to it (they are a lll pure QML and I think they are all under BSD license). This way you'll get same middle where and same controls for apps, only e.g. task manager, ambiance and such will be different21:42
artemmaand the system apps too21:42
* artemma would actually love to manage such an innovative product :)21:43
* TechieElf TechieElf is too n00bie to do anything without a guide or help21:44
TechieElf>.< Well..... that was just terrible21:45
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xowapartemma: interesting stuff, I'll dig into it thx21:58
artemmaxowap: good luck!22:00
M4rtinKartemma: IIRC the C++ code for Silica was not yet released22:06
M4rtinKartemma: other than that, I think it is just the matter of packaging22:06
artemmaM4rtinK: I didn't study it deep, but from what I saw in the SDK it looked like Silica is nearly pure QML22:06
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artemmasure there might be small C++ parts here and there (e.g. Theme), but these could possibly be cloned without much effort22:07
M4rtinKartemma: well, even the Harmattan QtComponents were mostly QML22:07
M4rtinKbut there were still C++ plugins for stuff not possible in QML22:07
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M4rtinKyeah, I thing it would be doable22:08
artemmaM4rtinK: rumors told that somebody managed to run harmattan controls on Android (via Necessitas), I didn't see it myself22:08
M4rtinKmabye some issue with those effect providers22:08
M4rtinKM4rtinK: that was most probably me :)22:08
artemmaM4rtinK: Really?! Impressive!22:08
artemmaso that was real then! :)22:08
M4rtinKartemma: if you have an android device handy, check for yourself :)22:09
M4rtinKmore examples & presentation are here:
artemmain fact I hope some hacker ( such as M4rtinK ) ports Silica controls to Android too. Android doesn't have a good standard set of controls and Silica will compete well there as long as you figure out the menu and back button22:09
artemmacool! I am a little busy right now, but downloaded APK and will give it a try22:10
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M4rtinKwell, at least with Qt 5.1, QtQuick Controls are available22:11
M4rtinKnot sure if they support Android themes already22:12
M4rtinKbut I know they were working on it22:12
M4rtinKmy APKs are based on Qt4 & Harmattan QtComponents (I also got them working on BB10 by the way)22:13
M4rtinKnow when I think about it, the Nemo project has a Qt5 port of Harmattan QtComponents22:13
M4rtinKso that might also work on Android with Qt5 :)22:14
M4rtinKbut back to Silica - I think best would be to just open source it, put it to Github or Gitorious22:14
M4rtinKand let the community help them22:14
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M4rtinKpatches, pull requests, etc.22:14
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M4rtinKwhile silica is already usable & really slick22:15
M4rtinKthere is still room for improvements & advanced components22:15
M4rtinKlike a proper file selector22:15
M4rtinKwhile not their primary target, there might be people interested in adding them22:16
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ajalkaneAnyone have examples of using setContextProperty with newest SDK? I'm trying SailfishApp::createView() and using setSource on it but failing nicely22:33
w00tajalkane: failing how?22:35
ajalkanew00t: nevermind, right after writing that I figured it out... after banging my head to it for half an hour22:35
w00trubber duck debugging22:35
ajalkanethe magic line for anyone else maybe having same problem is: view->setSource(SailfishApp::pathTo("qml/main.qml"));22:36
dm8tbrIf it quacks like a dug, it's a bug! ;)22:36
Yanielthat exact same problem came up like..22:36
Yaniel3h ago22:36
dm8tbrdo we have irc-logs? public ones?22:37
ajalkaneSo everyones having a frenzy getting at least some silly app ready for the launch? :)22:37
* w00t is relaxing before monday starts22:37
w00ttoo bad i don't have long of that left22:37
Yanielmaybe the "manual" way should get its own section or page in the tutorial?22:37
ajalkaneThat'd be helpful22:38
Yanielor at least a note pointing people to the corresponding Qt docs22:38
Yanielsince they won't get there by themselves unless they know how the view works22:38
Yanielin which case they don't need to get there anyway22:38
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ajalkaneAt least the way I did it was not the "Qt" way, as it's all SailfishApp::thisAndThat22:38
Yanielview->setSource is not SailfishApp::thisAndThat IMHO22:39
w00twe'll probably focus on that at some point22:39
Yanielsounds rather Qt to me22:39
w00tSailfishApp (and the initial focus) is on getting things done the right way, with the least amount of pain, for our platform - while not making alternatives impossible22:39
ajalkaneYaniel: well true that... but knowing the Qt approach is not enough without some considerable head banging.22:40
Yanielw00t: so far it fails on poor documentation, like far too many things22:40
Yanielajalkane: not? it seemed pretty obvious to me22:41
w00tYaniel: can you give specifics? (i'm not at all surprised to hear that, but it's easier to fix with proper feedback from someone who has experienced pain :p)22:41
Yanielbesides not knowing what magic SailfishApp::createView actually does22:41
ajalkanew00t: That's correct focus, but right now the docs just document basically running a pure QML application. I'd wager it's quite common to have need for contextProperties etc. for many apps22:41
Yanielw00t: basically if you need something that SailfishApp::main does not do, you hit a wall22:42
ajalkanew00t: that's because you're so familiar with it :P. But a silly newby dev coming into it, all the initialization magic is not at all obvious22:42
* w00t fires up the vm22:43
Yanielbecause all there is is a list of SailfishApp methods and a quick mention of show() (which does not even mention the view)22:43
ajalkaneAlso something I'd like to have in the documents, would be how to create daemons. Like Harmattan's docs had.22:43
Yanielw00t: want to read through my backlog from 3h ago?22:44
w00tnot at this time of night :-p22:44
Yanielwell it boild down to this22:45
Yanielxowap | so yeah looks like I've got to do main()'s work by hand22:45
w00tright, so.. createView22:46
Yanieland no idea of what that actually means22:46
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Yaniel(not that it would be difficult)22:46
ajalkaneThe comments created by the SDK to the main function are enough to get one on the correct path, but it'd be really helpful and would save millions of hours by programmers if there was a ready example :)22:47
w00tthere's not honestly much magic here - it's just about setting up a QQuickView in the "right" way to display a silica application22:48
Yanielit's not about if there really is any magic22:48
Yanielbut what is left for you to do22:48
* w00t doesn't understand22:48
ajalkaneAnd also even if there's not any magic, there's this helper SailfishApp and it's a black box to developer - so he's at loss22:48
w00twhat's left to do, is to write your application22:48
M4rtinKany reason why the Silica ApplicationWindow does not inherit Window ? :)22:49
w00tajalkane: it's no more of a black box than "view = new QQuickView"22:49
w00t(that's, fundamentally, all it is - see the paste)22:49
w00tM4rtinK: at the time it was written, Window didn't exist, for starters22:49
M4rtinKw00t: that makes sense22:50
Yanielw00t: you need to tell the view to load a qml file22:50
Yanielwhich would otherwise be done by main()22:50
w00tit also lives in a seperate QML plugin which may make life difficult22:50
M4rtinKOK, I'll hack it aorund then :)22:51
w00tM4rtinK: why do you need the inheritance? what are you missing?22:51
M4rtinKI'm working with a single QML codebase22:52
ajalkanew00t: it is a black box when something doesn't work, even if it's a programmer mistake. And in any case, I think few lines of example code would help a lot and make it less intimidating for new devs. I've had some QML/C++ integration experience and even so I managed to lose some time on this. Especially for total newby it'd be very nice to have an example code how to do the initialization for Sailfish22:52
w00tYaniel: the design intention was that if you need a really simple setup, you use main (e.g. for QML-only applications) - if you need anything more than that, you use createView and you're left to do things on your own22:53
w00tajalkane: noted22:53
w00talso, the source for sailfishapp should be public eventually, I guess the problem at the moment is figuring out where to put it22:54
M4rtinKbah, SailfishApplication :)22:54
M4rtinKI'm just using qmlscene :)22:54
w00tM4rtinK: for testing, that's perfectly fine22:54
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M4rtinK...and an asynchronous Python backend via PyOtherSide :)22:55
M4rtinKworks surprisingly well BTW, thp really knows his stuff :)22:56
w00the does22:56
w00tit's kind of a hiring requirement :-)22:56
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Venemohey w00t can I ping you tomorrow with a bunch of API questions?22:57
w00tVenemo: you can try, but tomorrow is monthly planning, so I may be a bit slow to respond22:58
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Venemow00t: ok, maybe the day after23:01
Venemow00t: the thing is, my app is "almost there" on Sailfish but there are some things that still need tweaking and I'm kind of unsure about some of them23:02
TechieElfI'm really interested in Sailfish, just wish I could do something with it23:02
VenemoTechieElf: you can eat it23:02
TechieElfVenemo: ......I'll look into that.23:02
Venemojust kidding23:02
TechieElfDarn, I was looking forward to it23:04
ajalkaneThe special edition other half is edible23:06
TechieElfSeems legit23:07
Venemotrue story!23:07
* w00t looks at his pink&fluffy OH23:07
Venemoit's actually made from a live sailfish23:07
w00ti'm awfully glad this isn't edible23:07
Venemoanyway, good night guys :)23:07
dm8tbrw00t: cotton candy other half?23:08
w00tdm8tbr: nah. pink fluff :)23:08
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specialajalkane: "special edition" :>23:08
w00tkarl made me one when I was last in helsinki23:08
dm8tbrI know, I skipped making me one of those pinky furry things23:08
w00tyou should have got one23:08
w00tthey're great23:08
w00tI got a slightly strange look going through security though :-)23:09
ajalkanespecial: you must be tasty23:09
dm8tbrthat alone must have been worth it23:09
w00tand an even stranger look when calling kamilla at copenhagen23:09
w00tsomeone walked past me and double-taked23:09
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ottulothat'll help make it a very "limited edition" pretty fast23:10
ajalkaneAh... I've been watching too much "The Walking Dead" recently. Getting some disturbing images in my head.23:11
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w00tottulo: oh? :p23:12
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ottulow00t: the number will drop fast as people get them in their teeth23:17
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* artemma submitted new reqs compatible flashlight to harbour. Ojh well, it says "locked in qa, draft available", so I emailed developer-care, maybe it helps23:43
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*** chriadam|away is now known as chriadam23:52
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