Tuesday, 2013-12-03

DarkSimFrom now on I will stick to Qualcomm00:01
DarkSimGetting real tired from your shit Nvidia lol00:01
ShadowJK50C shutdown? what kind of pos silicon is that? :)00:01
DarkSimwell something like 5500:02
DarkSimI'm not sure if my Clock/Heat widget catches it properly00:02
DarkSimbut it gets glowing hot00:02
DarkSimyou can almost burn yourself on it00:02
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HurrianShadowJK: Tegra :P00:04
ShadowJKI've never managed to stress my tegra3 tablet that much00:04
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ShadowJKcan't see how to do it, everything stops when I switch to another app lol00:05
HurrianAnyone owning a Tegra 2 tablet knows not to buy Tegra again ;)00:05
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ShadowJKIt would be fine really, if the emmc wasn't so damn slow00:07
ShadowJKit spends most of the time waiting on I/O instead of burning CPU :)00:07
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DarkSimso a Nexus 4 with a slight bump damage in one corner (no cracks or any scratches in general)00:09
DarkSimfor 115 USD00:09
DarkSimGood first future Sailfish phone?00:09
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ShadowJKReviewers are singing praises about Moto G being "equal" or better than N4, but at landfill price .. dunno about hackability though.00:11
DarkSimTime to base myself on one review from Google Search00:14
DarkSim"If you already have a Nexus 4, the Moto G is in no way and upgrade from your current device"00:14
DarkSimOnly thing that bugs me is battery life, every since I've gotten a smartphone, battery is really the thing I've sacrificed the most00:15
DarkSimfrom several days if not a whole week to barely a day00:15
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ShadowJKbatterylife has gone up for me00:19
ShadowJKirc on not-smatphone lasted barely 4 hours :)00:19
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ShadowJKThe initial proposition that reviewer makes, is kinda weird. If you already have a Nexus4, which seems to costs €399 new still, a €250 Moto G is likely to not be a terribly big upgrade, if at all.00:22
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ShadowJKAnd if you've got €399 to spare, get Jolla ;-)00:23
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Cage10hey guys, quick question (I think) - why could PullDownMenu and PushUpMenu not work in SilicaGridView? https://pastee.org/6hx3d00:57
Cage10grid's parent is a Page, and it has a Component sibling for a delegate00:58
Cage10the screen fades out a little, if I touch in any way the screen01:00
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kulvethp: I've still been using the command line sharing plugin on my n950 quite frequently and now I need to same for my new phone :) Do you happen to have any pointers to docs or even examples about the new plugin system?06:22
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fk_lxkulve: look at nemo-qml-plugin-* here: https://github.com/nemomobile06:43
fk_lxkulve: at least theses are qml plugins that are supported in Nemo and Sailfish, so look if you can find the one you need (no idea if it's there)06:44
tortoisedockulve : you talking about the sharing plugin?06:48
tortoisedocthp : is it correct the transfer-engine is not finalized in the alpha sdk yet?06:50
fk_lxkulve: it might be it what you are looking for - https://github.com/nemomobile/qml-share-enablers06:51
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fk_lxkulve: ah, it's rather not it - there is import of Qt 4.7 in it06:55
kulvetortoisedoc: yeah06:57
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tortoisedocadding MimeType to .desktops pointing at apk packages drops the link from the homescreen07:16
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tortoisedochmm even removing it does not bring them back.. :|07:17
tortoisedocedited .desktop file in /usr/share/applications btw07:17
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tortoisedockulve : you might want to look into transfer-engine07:23
tortoisedocfor the plugin07:23
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tortoisedocbut at least I could not get anywhere far; plugin I made is not being correctly used (placed next to bluetooth one)07:23
tortoisedocany help is appreciated :|07:25
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|thunderhi all. is the sailfish SDK what I need to install on debian to run the OS on my desktop to play with it?07:26
tbryes, although the emulator has no apps in it07:27
tbrunless you download some, compile them and run them07:27
|thunderwell, that's unfortunate07:28
|thunderwhat's the cheapest mobile device you know of that will run it without lag?07:29
tbrcurrently there is only the Jolla phone07:29
|thundercan my nokia n800 run it? lol07:29
tbrthe N9 sort of runs it, but is not optimal07:29
|thunderi imagine the n9 screen is too narrow07:29
|thunderok, well, thanks for answering my questions. I wanted to check it out hands-on. I love the way old nokia stuff was designed. maemo, meego, etc.07:30
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thpkulve: haven't played with sharing plugins yet, would have to ask07:33
kulvethp: well, if you bump into anything let me know :)07:33
thpkulve: will do07:34
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newinhey all07:47
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tortoisedochey newin07:50
fk_lxmorning ;-)07:51
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DarkFoxHello world - I've finally returned and just wondering if there is any schedule / expected date or time-range for when sailfish will be downloadable and flashable for different devices? Personally, I'd love to try it out on my xperia.08:17
DarkFoxI only see the SDK around - no actural builds for testing in say... qemu ?08:17
Nicd-nothing public yet08:18
DarkFoxNicd-: Didn't think so - so just as last time, mir + nemo?08:19
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StskeepsDarkFox: which xperia?08:19
DarkFoxStskeeps: I'd love to tell you but I can't recall... Also, 2nd hand from my dad :P08:20
* DarkFox checks if it's said inside.08:20
jussimer+ nemo maybe dont think anyone is doing mir + nemo :D08:20
DarkFoxWhat sailfish used to be haha08:20
jussimir + nemo, perfect way to start a flame war! :P08:21
DarkFoxStskeeps: mt27i08:21
DarkFoxWhatever that is :P08:21
StskeepsDarkFox: no promises on that one, it's ICS based08:21
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tachikomaice crean sandwich?08:22
Stskeepsice cream sandwich, android version08:22
Stskeepsalso, urgh, u850008:22
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DarkFoxYea ICS indeed08:23
* DarkFox wants his N900 to run sailfishos08:23
Nicd-DarkFox: did you mean mer + nemo?08:23
tachikomaDarkFox: that be awesome, but i guess thats out of scope08:23
tachikomai have mer/nemo on my n900, but it's not really ready for day to day use08:24
tachikomamaemo does work so much better still08:24
DarkFoxNicd-: Whatever it is08:24
DarkFoxtachikoma: My N900s flash is kinda dead :/08:24
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|thundertachikoma, make it run on my n800 too   ;)08:24
tachikomaDarkFox: flash dead - wow08:25
DarkFoxAnd the micro-usb port is disconnected and the screws to open it (2 problematic) are butchered.08:25
DarkFoxtachikoma: Lots of read-writes08:25
tachikoma|thunder: i think mer originated from n800, at least back then was the first time i heard about that08:25
DarkFoxAKA. Using that 32G flash for an encrypted backup of entire desktop :D08:25
tachikomaDarkFox: interesting, i do use mine also since the first day it was available andit doe still work fine.08:25
DarkFoxWrite much to it?08:26
tachikomawwhat would be the effects if you have a worn out flash?08:26
* DarkFox got his 2nd hand off eBay for $12008:26
DarkFoxtachikoma: Slower mostly08:26
tachikomayeah, i wrote a lot to it, used it as computer the whole time08:26
DarkFoxreflash was no difference compared to how it used to be.08:27
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* DarkFox makes note that he is sure someone will laugh at...08:27
* tachikoma has his second n900 still packaged in the basement08:27
* DarkFox bought a pair of batteries and a charger from Hong Kong for the N900 when the charging port died.08:27
DarkFoxThe charger burnt out within the day08:27
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* DarkFox now uses the N95 to charge the N900 batteries :D08:28
DarkFoxtachikoma: Packaged and never opened?08:28
tachikomano, I did open it once to check everything is inside08:29
tachikomathe time when usb ports fell off, needed some backup device08:29
DarkFoxFair enough08:29
tachikomai never intended it to keep it for so long, but my first one never broke, so ...08:29
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DarkFoxtachikoma: You don't need a usb charger when you have a N95 :P08:29
tachikomai never had n9508:30
tachikomaso, not sure what you mean08:30
* DarkFox has one and it is damn loud08:30
DarkFoxN95 is a bit older than the N900, symbian and its battery is smaller than the N900s. But the N900 battery "fits" while hanging out of the device - charges to ~75%08:31
* DarkFox may or may have not booted the two phones off the same battery at once :308:32
DarkFoxOne battery = two phones at once :D08:32
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* DarkFox when he finally has sailfish working on a phone will start hacking at the UI and maybe consider forking for a BSD alternative :-)08:34
* DarkFox hopes the license would be usable for that...08:34
DarkFoxIf not I at least hope that the interesting components would be easily portable enough to a microbsd.08:36
tachikomai see, ok, ihav e had an external charger since years for that08:38
tachikomathe ui is closed source afaik08:39
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sharpneliThe UI is closed by Jolla and the device drivers are closed by Qualcomm. Rest is free.08:40
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tachikomayes, thats how i understand it08:41
tachikomasharpneli: is there a list of the device drivers that are closed?08:41
tachikomai know that e.g. for the gpu is a open source driver in the kernel already, i wonder what else could be replaced to have a truely open phone (that is of course without the radio device)08:42
Stskeepstachikoma: too much :/08:43
Stskeepsbut if you let go of the thought of hw adaptation having to be open, you can get pretty close on ui/core side08:43
sharpneliI don't really mind closed drivers myself. Drivers are not usable without the HW and the HW itself is closed anyway.08:43
sharpneliThe only thing I mind is douchebag vendors who do things like forbid Android of sharing factory images because they have their drivers in them :D08:44
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tachikomaStskeeps: I'm not an evangelist, for me this is more academical08:46
tachikoma'could it be completely open, or how much open can it be"08:47
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DarkFoxtachikoma, sharpneli: closed or not I'll be hacking at the UI :P08:48
tachikomasharpneli: really, that happens? why should the do that if their driverrs are binary only and most likely only work with the android kernel anyway08:48
tachikomaDarkFox: sure, go ahead, I don;t rally care about the ui - I'd get the phone if it would run fvwm2 ...08:49
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sharpnelitachikoma: http://www.xda-developers.com/android/new-nexus-7-factory-images-not-available-jbq-leaves-aosp/08:49
sharpnelitachikoma: The nexus 7 images are now available. But it took some decent amount of time of Google bashing Qualcomm about it08:49
* DarkFox wants Sony/AMDs drivers for the FreeBSD PlayStation408:50
tachikomawow, the nexus itself is affected by that stupidity, amazing08:50
vatralsay, is there a way to install this on a N9? I understand it's not officially supported, but did anybody make an image for it?08:50
sharpnelitachikoma: And funnily enough one can still get the drivers via adb pull :D08:50
sharpneliJust some lawyers at Qualcomm going in overdrive08:50
tachikomasharpneli: of course08:50
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tachikomai would bet such decisions are done by people with 0 technical expertise08:51
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* DarkFox imagines encrypted bsd xperia running with sailfish BSD :P08:53
tachikomathats what i hate about android08:53
tachikomaso much stuff from shady sources, in some forumpost or half legal stuff doen by end users...08:53
* DarkFox drules08:53
tachikomai actually wondered how jolla wants to achieve that you can install sailfishos on other devices08:54
tachikomaaren't those all slighly different hardware wise and thus suffer from river issues with other kernels?08:55
tabaskotachikoma: simple, just buy installation dvd:s from your local computer store and enjoy08:55
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DarkFoxtachikoma: Casually plug in a portable dvd drive to your phone?08:55
tachikomaeh - are we living in different universes? ;)08:56
DarkFoxtachikoma: The problem is ARM is so different between devices08:56
tabaskoand insert 24 char cd-key08:56
tachikomaDarkFox: thats what i mean08:56
DarkFoxDue to SoCs being so unstandardized.08:56
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tachikomayou have all in the soc and the soc are heavily customized08:56
DarkFoxSoC unification in Linux was a project - not sure for how far they went.08:56
tachikomareality point to "not very far" ;)08:57
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DarkFoxNo doubt not far :P08:57
DarkFoxToo much work08:57
DarkFoxToo many chips08:57
DarkFoxToo ineffeciant08:58
DarkFoxAnd with intel making x86_64 chips use as little power as ARM devices, is arm going down?08:58
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DarkFoxI hope not08:58
tachikomaI'm still waiting for those intel chips08:58
DarkFoxBut if the SoC manufactures don't step up the game and unify their crap, that's what will probally happen.08:59
tachikomaI doubt it08:59
DarkFoxhttp://www.shapeshifter.se/articles/freebsd_gprs3g/ << This person seems to have been having some fun08:59
tachikomaas long as android works on them nothings gonna change08:59
DarkFoxAndroid barely works haha08:59
DarkFoxYay version released!!!?09:00
tachikomamost users tend to differ09:00
DarkFoxNay version hasn't been modded by manufacture! D:09:00
DarkFoxYay mod was created.09:00
sremesso wjat09:00
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DarkFoxNay it killed my mic, and camera! D:09:00
tachikomathe only relevant thing in this market is - what are end users gonna buy.09:00
DarkFox^ Experience with a droid I have.09:00
sremesso what is the process of adding new software to Jolla store, I assume people are submitting stuff to harbour, when does their apps appear in store?09:01
tachikomaand the numbers say that they buy android09:01
* DarkFox wonders how well android / jolla apps will co-exist without too much conflict. API / design standards are very different.09:01
tachikomaso it is "ggood enough" obviously. This could of course change, when it gets worse or something better comes along09:01
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DarkFoxIt'll throw around the unification of the jolla unified UI.09:01
tachikomawhy the heck am i'm following neil gaiman on twitter ...09:02
* DarkFox feels like unifying every sentence to include unified or any deriviate for unifyication to make this conversation more unified.09:02
DarkFoxdamn typos09:03
DarkFoxScrew it09:03
DarkFoxtachikoma: Why the heck is my twitter not authenticating for bitlbee :(09:03
DarkFoxBetter question09:03
tachikomathe answer might be the same as to my question:09:04
tachikoma"I have not the slightest idea"09:04
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DarkFoxSorry /topic :309:05
DarkFoxActurally, quite ontopic. :O09:05
DarkFoxtachikoma: Think it would be at all dificult to get a BSD phone, encrypted zfs root and to jail the GSM module... To then run TOR and get a nice big battery? :D09:07
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artemmaI just realized that my Helloworld Pro was marked as Approved yesterday, not Published in harbour. How long does it take to get from Approved to Published?09:10
DarkFox"Helloworld Pro" ?09:10
tachikomaDarkFox: well, I'd go with the neo freerunner phone for that - or what it is called09:10
DarkFoxOhai openmoko lives09:11
DarkFoxOr this still the old device? :P09:11
* DarkFox would rather have something a bit more stylish than that ugly hting :P09:12
DarkFoxthing *09:12
tachikomaor - you could build one by tour own. Get some calypso chip based motorola, and some small single board computer, then install bsd on the sbc and just connect the motorola and use it as radio interface with osmocombb09:12
tachikomathats the only way i can imaging to get really completely open phone, I don't know any baseband processor beside the calypso one that runs with oepn source software09:13
artemmaDarkFox: template/wizard of a proper project that gets you all the real proper structures and is guaranteed to be good enough for passing through Harbour checks - https://github.com/amarchen/helloworld-pro-sailfish09:13
DarkFoxI'd rather pull apart my motoroler and rm windows on it09:13
tachikomacalypso is 2g only though09:13
DarkFoxmotorola *09:13
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* DarkFox 's motorola has a little mouse thingy on it O_o09:13
tachikomawell, that will still not open it's radio interface to open source software :(09:13
DarkFoxOpen ♥09:14
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TheBootrooDarkFox: dafuq are you sayin duh ? i didn't understand a single message you posted...09:14
* tachikoma has two calypso based phones laying on his table right now ;)09:15
DarkFoxTheBootroo: From where onwards?09:15
TheBootroowell in fact i understand some of them but putting all together doesn't makes any sense O.o09:15
* DarkFox isn't drunk - just tired, may have been related to making unreadable messages.09:15
tachikomahttps://opensource.srlabs.de/projects/catcher/wiki is such an awesome app ;)09:15
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TheBootrooDarkFox: go sleep !  (or drink ;-) )09:16
tachikomathe catcher catcher :)09:16
DarkFoxTheBootroo: Esentially, I'd love to have a BSD phone, encrypted and with at least 64G internal flash (SD card for root maybe?) and for it to have a decent UI like sailfish.09:16
DarkFoxObviously very different though. Ideally, something useful for low power - but high capability.09:17
TheBootrooDarkFox: just work on BSD kernel port for sailfish, and buy 64GB µSD09:17
DarkFoxTheBootroo: Tempted to start that in fact09:17
zuhMaybe time to check the topic of discussions at this point? :)09:17
tachikomazuh: true09:18
* tachikoma shuts up09:18
DarkFoxzuh: Nah still sailfish / mobile / innovation09:18
DarkFox/ideas to implement into sailfish09:18
osso__DarkFox: yeah, go ahead and write all the needed drivers from scratch :-)09:18
DarkFoxosso__: Too many :C09:18
* DarkFox wonders why his motorola A3100 even has a mouse - all while having a touchscreen09:19
DarkFoxWell, I think it was touch09:19
DarkFoxMaybe not...09:19
DarkFoxIt's windows crap but still ... CHARGE SO I CAN START IT UP D:09:19
DarkFox20:15:59   TheBootroo | DarkFox: go sleep !  (or drink ;-) )09:19
DarkFoxTheBootroo: Sleeping sounds good09:19
DarkFoxhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_A3100 << I wonder how well anything decent would run on this.09:20
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maaarghkhey guys, just trying to understand, is sailfish like a "competitor" to the likes of tizen?10:38
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Stskeepsmaaarghk: well, we're shipping10:39
leinirand it's not a camera ;)10:39
tachikomadon;t say that!10:39
maaarghkindeed. i remember reading tizen's website and not being sure what was going on... it had a page about why linux was good and not much else.10:40
tachikomaStskeeps: the fun in these channels will be gone if people get actual information about shipping ;)10:40
Stskeepsleinir: now that's just mean ;(10:40
tachikomaand no, i do not mean that seriously10:40
leinirbut also, tizen is pretty much run by a single company, and specifically one which doesn't get the idea of community10:40
maaarghkso, right, the answer to my question is like "there is no competition"10:41
tachikomai have trouble understanding what tizen really is, i tried get the sdk running but quickly lost interest10:41
tachikomamaaarghk: there is a nice showdown of the open mobile os systems video by nixie pixel10:41
Stskeepsmaaarghk: did you see our launch video?10:41
maaarghkStskeeps: only just heard about the project - and in the office at work sooooo...10:41
TheBootrooStskeeps: srsly, are you 'REALLY' shipping ?10:42
maaarghkbasically what i'm saying is no haha.10:42
Stskeepsmaaarghk: meh, well, mute sound and pretend you're working: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfAixpkzcBQ10:42
tachikomasailfishos wins btw10:42
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maaarghkif it makes sense on mute sound then ill do that10:42
tachikomashe also looked in detail in the four systems in other videos, but i find it hard to watch too much from her10:42
maaarghkshe looks scary like a girl i used to know.10:43
maaarghkwatching launch vid.10:43
tachikomashe is over the top nerdy10:43
StskeepsTheBootroo: well, people have it in their hands10:43
StskeepsTheBootroo: that qualifies as having shipped10:43
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TheBootroowell, a few people, who aren't me, so i don't care, it's still unicorn phone to me10:43
maaarghkthat's very pretty10:44
tachikomaStskeeps: why do you make me relaod that damned shop page every five minutes again! why???10:44
TheBootroountil i hold the precious by myself10:44
Stskeepsmaaarghk: and that experience is in people's hands today10:44
maaarghkwhat are my chances of getting i working on my old nexus 4 ?10:44
Stskeepshehe, fairly high, but not yet10:44
TheBootrootachikoma: i reload à 0.10 FPS !!10:44
maaarghkStskeeps: not lookng for a zip to flash here, i mean, is that under community development?10:44
tbrI did some work on a Nexus4 kernel once10:45
tachikomaso, according to that nerdy girl, there are 4 more or less open systems currently around, firefoxos, tizen, ubuntu mobile and sailfishos10:45
maaarghktbr: how far did you get?10:45
Stskeepsfirefoxos and sailfishos are shipping in devices10:45
Stskeepswell, tizen too, but in a camera10:45
tbrmaaarghk: kernel built, but didn't boot, IIRC there was some checksum or other postprocessing missing. I know other people got that bit to work10:46
maaarghkcool. is there like a forum or something ro just a mailing list?10:46
tbrthere is #nemomobile here on IRC as Nemo is the initial step before Sailfish10:47
maaarghki seeeeee.10:48
tachikomaStskeeps: yes, thats why sailfishos won her little copmpetition video10:48
tachikomaits works and ships and does not look like it escaped from the nineties10:49
maaarghkinteresting. does it necessarily have to be for mobile? what about a decent desktop linux distro?! you never know 2014 YEAR OF LINUX DESKTOP10:49
WntHow long does it take for an application to update to the store after it has been approved by the QA process?10:50
TheBootrooWnt: i'm asking the same question !10:51
maaarghkoh I just saw jolla.com it all makes a bit more sense suddenly, hah10:53
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tortoisedocCyanogenmod has a quickbar :D10:57
tortoisedocCyanogenmod has a quickbar :D10:57
Nicd-can you say that again?10:57
Nicd-didn't quite catch it10:57
TheBootrooNicd-: Cyanogenmod has a quickbar ?10:58
maaarghkhe said that CM has a quickbar10:58
TheBootrooCyanogenmod has a quickbar !10:58
w00tfirst meme of #sailfishos? :p10:58
* TheBootroo doesn't care about CM10:58
Nicd-what does cyanogenmod have?10:58
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TheBootrooNicd-: A QUICKBAR10:58
Nicd-a quickbar what?10:58
TheBootroo" /D "10:58
TheBootroo" :D "10:58
TheBootrooquick bar of kitkat maybe10:59
* tbr doesn't care for industrial nestle crap11:07
w00ttbr: more of a seafood fan? ;)11:08
tbrfrutti di mare! nomnomnom11:08
MFaro-Tusinoqwazix: Will you be porting pcam?11:09
* tbr caught his fish fresh, himself, in helsinki ;)11:09
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maaarghki tried that once but i suck. went camping with my girlfriend and her dad (!!!) and he was catching loads of mackerel and cooking it on a BBQ11:19
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maaarghksome dutch people were very impressed with this and swapped us a fish for some AWESOME dried sausage or some other dutch thing like that11:20
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qwazixMFaro-Tusino, as far as I know no fcam yet on mer :-(, otherwise, by all means11:31
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MFaro-TusinoOkay - fingers crossed qwazix - having RAW support was my favourite, no other phone (until the Lumia 1520 and 1020 after the latest wp update) has had it11:33
MFaro-TusinoI miss it11:33
qwazixN900 had it too :P11:36
tachikoman900 still has it :)11:38
Nicd-N900 RAWs were huge11:39
Nicd-my DSLR RAWs are half the size :P11:39
fluxmaybe they were (losslessly) compressed but n900 raws were not?-) (I don't know, just guessing)11:39
Nicd-I guess so11:40
tachikoman900 was really just what came from the sensor, no postproc at all afaik11:40
MFaro-TusinoI never was lucky enough to get an N900 (been looking though)11:40
tachikomabut it's some time ago i rwead up on that11:40
MFaro-TusinoI upgraded my plan to the 5800, three weeks later, N900 released, when I could upgrade, it was no longer sold in Australia, so bought the N811:41
tachikomaMFaro-Tusino: you could just buy them in shops11:41
tachikomaMFaro-Tusino: ah, ok i see11:41
MFaro-Tusinotachimoka: I was about 15 at the time, so I didn't have the money to buy it outright initially after I went on contract11:41
tachikomayeah, i belive that11:44
tachikomai had n800 and was so happy with it, as soon as i heard there will be n900 i put money to the side for that11:45
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tachikoman800 + e65 was an awesome combination back then11:45
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MFaro-TusinoI still use N950 fairly regularly11:49
MFaro-TusinoN950 + Lumia 925 has been a good combo (lately its been Z30 + 925 though)11:50
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Stskeepsqwazix: there's a lot of unexplored camera functionality possible to link with, at least12:02
Stskeepsbut it'd risk being fairly hw specific12:02
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tortoisedocare the icons on the lockscreen (sms, fb notification, call, download etc)12:28
tortoisedocsupposed to be navigable?12:28
tbryou can push up from the bottom to get to the feed view12:28
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tbrtortoisedoc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLOQTO8Q4Os&list=UUgK45xp5j9vJMJ3odffESjA12:32
tbrthe latter shows how those fit together12:32
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tortoisedoctbr : thanks12:49
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qwazixStskeeps, :nod:13:13
qwazixin fact that's what fcam tried to do, be the abstraction layer between hw and developer13:13
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gyebenIs it / will it be possible to run Sailfish OS on a Raspberry Pi?13:21
Stskeepsno, sadly not13:21
Stskeepssailfishos is armv7l and above13:21
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leiniron an ouya, however... ;)13:24
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leinirhm... armv7 in that, guess not13:26
Stskeepswell, armv7 is fine13:28
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leinirit's a tegra3 based android device... ;)13:37
leiniryou guys should totally have a chat with the ouya people... if you're not already :)13:37
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leinirseems like a match made in heaven to me :)13:37
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zuhleinir: sailfishos on ouya? Maybe with a touchscreen tv sure, but otherwise seems like the UI would be kind of awkward to use... :)14:07
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Skorpyhey, is it possible yet to develop applications on the phone? as in press run -> opens up in the phone14:08
leinirzuh: well yes, it'd need some work on the UI, but that's why getting directly in touch with ouya would be neat... there's an ouya 2 to build, after all ;)14:08
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locusfSkorpy: the feature is coming afaik14:10
Skorpylocusf: ah ok. thanks. I thought it would have already been there :P14:11
Stskeepsleinir: well, maybe see it more as a companion device14:11
Stskeepshow would you use it?14:11
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leinirStskeeps: i was more thinking of how neat it'd be if the ouya 2 ended up being based on sailfishos... as that would ensure it both had some really close-to-the-metal power, but without the experience-breaking fallbacks to showing the android settings dialog and the like, but without sacrificing android compatibility for games :)14:12
zuhleinir: What would be the pro's for getting sailfishos on ouya? You'd probably lose some games since you are even more away from Android compatibility... The UI has not much to offer for non-touch environment... etc :)14:12
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leinirzuh: ok, forget sailfishos and think nemo + an ouya specific UI14:13
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Stskeepssimple stuff like 'move this video playing to the tv' is naturally sane14:14
Stskeepsbut from a gaming experience, i'd say that the console should augment the gaming experience of the phone14:15
zuhleinir: Well, you can do debian there already so can't see what would prevent a mer port (if it doesn't in fact have one yet)14:15
zuhBut then it's just another ARM board... :)14:15
leinirStskeeps: i'm not thinking for jolla as a companion to the console - i'm thinking replace android on ouya itself... but sure, having an ouya companion on jolla would be neat too (the psvita stuff for ps3 and ps4 might be interesting to look at there)14:16
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kilou_Where can I get the source code?14:51
Nicd-take a look at the mer and nemo projects14:51
kilou_Is the kernel source also available?14:51
Nicd-you mean the operating system kernel?14:53
kilou_Found it14:56
Nicd-kilou_: take a look at https://github.com/torvalds/linux ;)14:57
kilou_The Jolla phone cannot bz ordered online?14:57
Nicd-not yet, at this point only preorders are served14:58
kilou_Isn't the phone overpriced?14:59
kilou_400€ fof that14:59
kilou_No store14:59
fluxwell, it's middle priced in the sailfishos phone market14:59
Nicd-I'm quite happy with my phone15:00
Nicd-besides, I didn't pay 400 € for the current situation, I paid it for a future I believe is achievable15:01
kilou_I've wondered to get one,  to hack the os and develop some app15:01
Nicd-and to support Jolla in getting closer to that goal15:01
kilou_But i'm gonna wait for the flashable image15:02
kilou_A d try it on my n415:02
nanderNicd- well said15:02
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Nicd-the N900 was a terrible phone. it was bulky, slow, buggy and had the most terrible email client I've ever had to use. I was still happy with my purchase15:04
Nicd-and the Jolla is on another level already15:04
TheBootrooNicd-: does the Jolla have converstion mode on mail client ?15:07
Nicd-TheBootroo: no15:08
nanderCreate a mail client that does ;)15:08
fluxthat would've been nice15:08
fluxI hope to see lots of progress within the next year or so :)15:08
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eekohow does multitasking work with android apps? can one run whatsapp on the background with no problem?15:27
eekowithout killing battery life? ;)15:28
Nicd-seems so15:28
Nicd-I have it constantly running15:28
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eekoand how long does your battery last?15:29
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eekoi was planning on getting a new phone for christmas, but i kind of need to use it for my daily life as well :P15:32
eekothe only thing i'm concerned about is the battery life15:32
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Nicd-eeko: just a sec15:38
Nicd-< Nicd-> yesterday unplugged phone at 0830 with 100 % charge, plugged in 14.5 hours later with ~25 % charge15:38
Nicd-< Nicd-> usage a bit more than normal, including maybe 30 - 45 minutes of calls15:39
Nicd-< Nicd-> data connection open all day, apps open: people, phone, email (with sync), whatsapp, messaging, clock15:39
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eekocool, thx15:46
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TheBootroocan someone with device check if "CityBike'me" has landed into Jolla Store yet ?16:08
TheBootroodunno how much time between Harbour QA approval and Store availability16:08
SieniMaagiat least mine doesn't still show any apps that weren't there on the launch day16:12
TheBootrooSieniMaagi: OK16:12
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sremesmine shows StopWatch-app, which it says was released today, so more are probably coming16:14
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TheBootroosremes: rly ?16:15
TheBootroomine was approved yesterday in the morn16:15
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saildevi'm trying to install my apps to my jolla for testing purposes.. i use "pkcon install-local" and at first it worked just fine.. then i got this error message about releases.jolla.com connection and i tried again.. now i have "fatal error: authentication failed (is ssu set up correctly?)".. what is this?17:06
Aardsaildev: ssu domain17:07
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Aardsaildev: you played with stuff :p17:07
Aarddo ssu domain sales17:07
saildevi haven't done anything else than just pkcon install-local :D17:07
tbryou probably pressed in developer mode ui 'enable developer updates'17:08
saildevby accident yes but didn't accept it..17:08
JvD_CityBike'me is in the store17:08
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JvD_TheBootroo: ^17:08
saildevhm, well, anyways it works again :) thanks!17:08
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tbrsaildev: pressing the button is sadly enough. I consider that a bug.17:10
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JvD_and now it's installed17:10
saildevwell yeah, that is a bug then, yes :D17:10
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JvD_TheBootroo: with 4 downloads17:13
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TheBootrooJvD_: already 4 ??? cool !17:42
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JvD_one of them being me17:44
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Tofeis it possible to download an app from the store with a web browser ?17:45
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luilufin_Elleo: Will you make Pebble-client for Sailfish?18:45
* tbr is working on getting SOWatch working for Metawatch and LiveView18:46
luilufin_I have Pebble already18:47
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Juice__so, I updated sailfish ide and now the emulator mouse does not work19:57
Juice__anyone else encountered this?19:57
jake9xxJuice__: at all ?19:58
jake9xxJuice__: what about going on top of the vm and pressing right-ctrl ?19:59
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Juice__it captures the mouse but the sailfish mouse pointer does not show19:59
Juice__the sailfish pointer does not show in any case19:59
jake9xxok - I've seen this once with Windows7 on some sdk user but in that case he had messed around with VBox's setup20:00
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Juice__maybe I should check the setup20:00
jake9xxJuice__: what's your host OS, vbox version ?20:00
Juice__but I just updated it20:00
Juice__my host: Arch linux, vbox: 4.3.020:01
jake9xx32 or 64bit ?20:02
jake9xxmy setup is ubuntu 12.04 + vbox 4.3.220:02
jake9xx64bit - and no problems20:02
Juice__maybe I should try to update vbox20:02
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jake9xxin vbox console, check that pointing device is PS/2 Mouse20:04
tortoisedoc_hey sailors20:06
tortoisedoc_how do I get my rpm on my Jolla?20:06
tortoisedoc_meaning, no direct way to do it from qtcreator atm correct?20:07
lpotterI use scp20:07
jake9xxtortoisedoc_: coming up in the next sdk release20:07
Juice__jake9xx: I am updating vbox20:07
tortoisedoc_jake9xx : groovie20:07
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jake9xxtortoisedoc_: currently you can make rpm's with qtc and then scp them into device20:08
tortoisedoc_lpotter, any dep problems? I know device is waay ahead of alpha sdk20:08
tortoisedoc_jake9xx thanks, we definitely need qtcreator to access our awesome new phones :P20:08
lpotterother than having to install libsailfishapp, no20:09
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tortoisedoc_hmm libsailfishapp eh20:09
jake9xxtortoisedoc_: libsailfishapp is a harness so you need only main.cpp + qml stuff20:10
tortoisedoc_qtcreator could really take a "make package" option20:10
jake9xxtortoisedoc_: click the icon above 'play'20:10
jake9xxselect 'deploy method arm'20:11
tortoisedoc_thanks yes that's known20:11
tortoisedoc_im just whining I cant make a package without deploying here :P20:11
jake9xxqtc's support for packaging is a bit limited20:11
jake9xxbasically it understands qmake, make and make install20:12
fk_lxjake9xx: btw. for me when I wanted to get rpm for ARM it wasn't clear that I need to select 'deploy method arm' I've instead chosen the first one20:12
tortoisedoc_i have "deploy method arm" , wonder what it is?20:12
jake9xxfk_lx: we're delivering more intuitive solution very soon20:12
fk_lxjake9xx: well in the end I've figured out, but it took some time to guess what is wrong ;-)20:12
tortoisedoc_aaaah thanks fk_lx answered on the fly20:12
jake9xxtortoisedoc_: it makes the rpm packages and prompts you where they are so you can scp them to your Jolla20:12
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tortoisedoc_from the target management20:14
tortoisedoc_you can install *-doc versions of packages20:14
tortoisedoc_where do I find the docs then??20:14
jake9xxwhere the package installs them20:14
tortoisedoc_im feeling like a real n00b here :D20:15
jake9xxtarget is treated as a sysroot20:15
Juice__jake9xx: okay I update vbox, not working. How do I check that the pointing device is PS/2 ?20:15
jake9xxJuice__: open VirtualBox console20:15
jake9xxcmdline: VirtualBox &20:15
Juice__so that is the manager?20:16
jake9xxrightclick on 'SailfishOS Emulator'20:16
jake9xx-> settings20:16
jake9xx-> system20:17
Juice__ah, there20:17
Juice__PS/2 device, yes20:17
jake9xxreally strance20:18
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Juice__keyboard works (I can change the terminal with Ctrl+F2)20:19
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Juice__strange, now the pointer is present20:30
Juice__and itworks20:30
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Juice__jake9xx: did you have to install xcb libraries?20:37
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tortoisedoc_really nasty bug in email client20:53
tortoisedoc_text field of full mail zooms to original text size20:53
tortoisedoc_and then does not unzoom20:54
tortoisedoc_if you have a line of 2000 chars20:54
tortoisedoc_the text will be übersmall20:54
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tortoisedoc_and zooming will be blurred and unreadable20:54
disharmonicShould we expect an SDK update now that the phone is out?20:55
tortoisedoc_oh and also landscape mode would be awesome :P20:55
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tortoisedoc_sailors, what's the difference in qt creator between PkgConfigBR / PkgBR / Requires?21:03
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specialtortoisedoc_: BR is BuildRequires, so build dependencies; Requires is installed dependencies (that are not linked shared libraries - those are found automatically)21:10
specialtortoisedoc_: PkgConfigBR takes a pkgconfig file name and finds the right devel packages, PkgBR expects the actual package name21:10
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tortoisedoc_RPM build errors: + /usr/lib/rpm/meego/find-docs.sh /home/deploy/installroot21:13
tortoisedoc_ + /usr/lib/rpm/meego/brp-java-repack-jars21:13
tortoisedoc_  error: File not found: /home/deploy/installroot/usr/bin21:14
tortoisedoc_       File not found: /home/deploy/installroot/usr/bin21:14
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kaltsidisharmonic: sdk update is on its way.. probably won't make it this week because of the long weekend (Finnish independence day on Friday)21:15
tortoisedoc_(and pikkujoulu's ;P)21:15
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tortoisedoc_any help with the above ^greatly appreciated21:20
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tortoisedoc_(trying to build rpm for jolla phone on win7)21:21
kaltsitortoisedoc_: that can mean that your package did not create /usr/bin and its %files section says it wants to include /usr/bin in the rpm21:21
kaltsiif it's the default template application, it should of work, but if you've created the yaml/spec by yourself.. then there can be errors :)21:23
tortoisedoc_kaltsi : does a copy of the template still count as a default?  :P21:23
kaltsia copy.. hmm21:23
tortoisedoc_replaced what was in %files with a full path to my build artifact (plugin)21:25
tortoisedoc_but still meh :(21:25
kaltsiif you create a new template app, can you build that?21:26
kaltsiso does the environment work in the first place21:26
tortoisedoc_templates work21:26
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tortoisedoc_.,,or at least used to up to today21:27
tortoisedoc_this happens with an empty files section21:27
tortoisedoc_RPM build errors: + /usr/lib/rpm/meego/brp-python-hardlink21:27
tortoisedoc_+ /usr/lib/rpm/meego/find-docs.sh /home/deploy/21:27
tortoisedoc_sorry this was + /usr/lib/rpm/meego/find-docs.sh /home/deploy/installroot21:27
tortoisedoc_+ /usr/lib/rpm/meego/brp-java-repack-jars21:27
tortoisedoc_error: File not found: /home/deploy/installroot/usr/bin21:27
tortoisedoc_       File not found: /home/deploy/installroot/usr/bin21:27
kaltsican you paste the full build log somewhere.. or is it secret stuff?21:28
tortoisedoc_one sec21:28
tortoisedoc_turns out21:32
tortoisedoc_my .yaml file was named as the template project21:33
tortoisedoc_and the .spec file like the project where i copied the yaml into21:33
tortoisedoc_renaming the file changes the output log significantly21:33
kaltsido you have lots of manual edits in the spec?21:33
sharpneliSailfishOS uses --mfpu=vfpv3-d16 by default and the only sailfish hardware is capable for --mfpu=neon-vfpv4. Is it intentionally left like that to maintain binary compatibility of older arm devices?21:34
kaltsiif not, you can remove it completely and the yaml will be converted to spec21:34
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tortoisedoc_hmm no changes in the spec t all21:35
tortoisedoc_now i get21:35
tortoisedoc_Installed (but unpackaged) file(s) found21:35
kaltsitortoisedoc_: ok I suggest, just rm it and it will be recreated in the next build.. then we can rule out any cruft from copied spec file21:35
tortoisedoc_ok will do21:35
kaltsithat means what it says.. your make install installs some files but those are not mentioned in the %files section21:36
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tortoisedoc_ok so my files section is still crap21:37
kaltsisharpneli: yes something like that, neon and vfpv4 could be used in some packages that could really benefit from those21:37
kaltsitortoisedoc_: yes crappy %files, but edit it via the yaml21:38
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tortoisedoc_kaltsi : done, replaced all entries and putted full path to my build artifact21:39
tortoisedoc_(built plugin .so)21:39
tortoisedoc_same error :/21:39
sharpneliThere are not many of those, so vfpv3 is probably a sensible choice. I made a simple ridiculously ideal test case and in that neon was mere 2.6x faster.21:39
kaltsiwhere does your "make install" install it21:39
tortoisedoc_   /usr/lib/debug/.build-id/c8/8406f90db921363c823d73d1ee8d67068b50a221:39
tortoisedoc_   /usr/lib/debug/.build-id/c8/8406f90db921363c823d73d1ee8d67068b50a2.debug21:39
kaltsithose are just the debug symbol files21:40
kaltsisharpneli: cool :) I guess some codecs or multimedia stuff in general will benefit21:41
tortoisedoc_same error goes for the .so files21:42
tortoisedoc_my files section currently looks like this21:42
tortoisedoc_(restored it to the default one)21:42
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kaltsithat's not the default.. it has many more21:44
sharpnelikaltsi: Yeah. I was just wondering about the reason so if I make an app to the Jolla store will someone peek inside and check "Ahaa! You used a vector load that's not supported by vfpv3" :)21:45
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kaltsisharpneli: eventually someone might do that :) there are a number of static checks that are run for the submitted stuff and those checks are not set in stone yet21:47
tortoisedoc_copied over all the others21:47
kaltsitortoisedoc_: it should say which file was installed but unpackaged21:47
kaltsior which files21:47
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tortoisedoc_ill continue tomorrow21:48
tortoisedoc_thanks kaltsi for the support :)21:48
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kaltsiyw :) it's hard to try to guess, the build log would have been helpful for helping :) but I'm sure you'll figure it out.. just believe what the logs tell you21:49
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disharmonickaltsi, thx for the update22:02
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