Tuesday, 2014-01-14

*** jjarven has quit IRC00:00
*** rashm2k has quit IRC00:01
*** DarkSim has quit IRC00:04
*** raven24 is now known as raven24^{off}00:07
*** clau has quit IRC00:11
*** jjarven has joined #sailfishos00:16
*** master_of_master has quit IRC00:24
*** PeterPark has quit IRC00:30
*** khertan has quit IRC00:34
*** MFaro-Tusino has joined #sailfishos00:39
*** MFaro-Tusino has left #sailfishos00:44
*** valdur55 has quit IRC00:47
*** master_of_master has joined #sailfishos00:47
*** valdur55 has joined #sailfishos00:51
*** khertan has joined #sailfishos00:55
*** BeholdMyGlory has quit IRC00:55
*** jjarven has quit IRC00:55
*** sequantz has quit IRC01:06
*** jjarven has joined #sailfishos01:18
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos01:23
*** zhxt has joined #sailfishos01:24
*** mohjive has quit IRC01:25
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:27
*** Kabouik has quit IRC01:27
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos01:29
*** alight has quit IRC01:37
*** jjanvier has quit IRC01:38
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:40
*** amonk has joined #sailfishos01:42
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos01:47
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:48
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos01:51
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:52
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos01:55
*** ericcc has joined #sailfishos01:55
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC01:56
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos01:58
*** softmetz_ has joined #sailfishos02:03
*** ericcc has quit IRC02:03
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC02:05
*** ericcc has joined #sailfishos02:06
*** softmetz has quit IRC02:06
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos02:09
*** alight has joined #sailfishos02:10
*** alight has quit IRC02:11
*** alight has joined #sailfishos02:12
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos02:12
*** Venemo has quit IRC02:14
*** alight has quit IRC02:19
*** amonk has quit IRC02:19
*** triggerhappy has joined #sailfishos02:25
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC02:31
*** triggerhappy has joined #sailfishos02:31
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC02:35
*** Venemo_j has joined #sailfishos02:40
*** zmc has quit IRC02:48
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC02:51
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #sailfishos03:04
*** Gugli has quit IRC03:05
*** furikku has joined #sailfishos04:02
*** MMori has joined #sailfishos04:43
* smokex imports 1200 contacts over vcf04:46
smokexthis should take a while04:46
*** zmc has joined #sailfishos04:58
*** Tomiol80 has joined #sailfishos05:04
*** rm_work_ has joined #sailfishos05:15
*** Tomiol80 has quit IRC05:16
*** paju_ has joined #sailfishos05:26
*** paju has quit IRC05:27
*** dafox has joined #sailfishos05:54
*** rm_work_ has quit IRC06:07
*** martyone_ has joined #sailfishos06:11
*** softmetz_ has quit IRC06:14
*** softmetz has joined #sailfishos06:15
*** flyapen has joined #sailfishos06:19
*** Morpog_PC has joined #sailfishos06:22
*** VDVsx has quit IRC06:22
*** roric has quit IRC06:29
*** Bloob has joined #sailfishos06:32
*** dafox has quit IRC06:32
*** Shaan7 has quit IRC06:35
*** mohjive has joined #sailfishos06:40
*** Eismann has quit IRC06:42
*** Morpog_PC has quit IRC06:47
*** VDVsx has joined #sailfishos06:48
*** cargocult has joined #sailfishos06:51
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC07:04
*** Blizzz has joined #sailfishos07:05
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #sailfishos07:05
*** Zzz has joined #sailfishos07:07
*** Vant has joined #sailfishos07:17
*** cargocult has quit IRC07:18
*** jardous has joined #sailfishos07:26
*** _miqu_ has joined #sailfishos07:26
*** _miqu_1 has joined #sailfishos07:34
*** _miqu_ has quit IRC07:35
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #sailfishos07:39
*** b0bben has joined #sailfishos07:40
coderuswhen Mitakuuluu will be ready i'll open petition "Give Mitakuuluu green light to Harbour!" :D07:43
*** roric has joined #sailfishos07:44
Nicd-hmm, is QtNetwork allowed?07:50
sunkanNicd-: It is according to07:56
Nicd-I don't see it08:00
Nicd-ah, there08:00
*** piggz has quit IRC08:00
*** Morpog_Mobile has quit IRC08:02
*** zhxt has quit IRC08:02
*** dafox has joined #sailfishos08:06
*** mohjive has quit IRC08:07
*** Morpog_Mobile has joined #sailfishos08:12
*** macben has joined #sailfishos08:17
*** veskuh has joined #sailfishos08:17
*** Kabouik has joined #sailfishos08:17
*** macben has quit IRC08:17
*** macben has joined #sailfishos08:18
*** b0bben_ has joined #sailfishos08:18
*** dafox has quit IRC08:20
*** stephg has joined #sailfishos08:20
*** eduardp has joined #sailfishos08:21
*** b0bben has quit IRC08:21
*** jjanvier has joined #sailfishos08:23
*** TheBootroo has joined #sailfishos08:23
*** jjarven has quit IRC08:26
*** atiti has joined #sailfishos08:32
*** Hurrian has quit IRC08:32
*** alight has joined #sailfishos08:35
*** dafox has joined #sailfishos08:36
*** nodevel has joined #sailfishos08:38
*** DarkSim_ has joined #sailfishos08:40
*** DarkSim_ has quit IRC08:40
*** DarkSim has joined #sailfishos08:40
*** eduardp has quit IRC08:41
*** jjarven has joined #sailfishos08:45
*** alight has quit IRC08:46
*** M4rtinK has joined #sailfishos08:50
*** _miqu_ has joined #sailfishos08:51
*** _miqu_1 has quit IRC08:52
*** Xruxa has joined #sailfishos08:55
*** cxl000 has joined #sailfishos08:56
*** alight has joined #sailfishos08:58
*** c0ck4m0u53 has joined #sailfishos08:58
*** alight has quit IRC09:00
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC09:01
*** TheBootroo has quit IRC09:02
*** zsombi has joined #sailfishos09:10
*** stephg has quit IRC09:11
*** roboro has quit IRC09:14
*** amccarthy_ has joined #sailfishos09:15
*** amccarthy has quit IRC09:16
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos09:17
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos09:17
*** roboro has quit IRC09:22
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos09:22
*** _miqu_ has quit IRC09:23
*** dafox has quit IRC09:25
*** coderus is now known as morning09:27
*** morning is now known as coderus09:28
*** blaamann has quit IRC09:29
*** blaamann has joined #sailfishos09:30
*** jukkaeklund has joined #sailfishos09:40
*** sequantz has joined #sailfishos09:44
*** KangOl has joined #sailfishos09:46
*** sledges has quit IRC09:48
*** zhxt has joined #sailfishos09:49
janii know QtPositioning is not officially available for harbour apps but is there something that prevents it's use if the device is not in developer mode ?09:52
janii got couple of bug reports from people saying that my app doesnt start on device if the dev mode is not set (it just shows white screen)09:52
*** alight has joined #sailfishos09:53
*** sledges has joined #sailfishos09:53
Hartzijani: what is your app?09:53
janiHartzi: Jopas - meegopas port ..09:54
Hartzipublic transportation or something?09:54
*** _miqu_ has joined #sailfishos09:56
*** stephg has joined #sailfishos09:56
*** roboro has quit IRC09:58
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos10:01
*** _miqu_1 has joined #sailfishos10:01
*** _miqu_ has quit IRC10:01
*** macben has quit IRC10:01
*** roboro has quit IRC10:02
*** planasb has quit IRC10:02
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos10:02
*** lpotter has quit IRC10:04
*** macben has joined #sailfishos10:04
*** lpotter has joined #sailfishos10:05
janiHartzi: both ..10:07
*** _miqu_ has joined #sailfishos10:07
janimeaning hki & tampere ..10:07
*** cxl000 has quit IRC10:10
*** Pat_o_ has joined #sailfishos10:10
*** Pat_o has quit IRC10:10
*** _miqu_1 has quit IRC10:10
*** kostola has quit IRC10:11
*** cxl000 has joined #sailfishos10:11
*** kostola has joined #sailfishos10:12
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #sailfishos10:23
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC10:25
*** _miqu_1 has joined #sailfishos10:25
*** sletta has joined #sailfishos10:25
*** _miqu_ has quit IRC10:26
cos-should debugging work in current sailfish sdk?10:29
*** planasb has joined #sailfishos10:29
*** euroelessar has joined #sailfishos10:29
kaltsiwell it should, but doesn't10:30
kontiojani: do you happen to use xmlmodel in qml?10:30
janikontio: app is a port of meegopas so im not 100% familiar with codebase but git grep -i xmlmodel atleast does not yield any hits ..10:32
*** Kabouik has quit IRC10:32
kontiooh the name is QtQuick.XmlListModel10:32
kontiothere is a list in between :-) sorry10:33
janiyeah, i just found it.10:33
janiyes, QtQuick.XmlListModel is used ..10:33
kontiojani: then it could be the same as https://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2014-January/002892.html10:33
*** Kabouik has joined #sailfishos10:34
cos-i'm struggling with my app causing too many wakeups to be accepted in harbour.10:35
janikontio: might very well be about dependencies, thanks for the pointer!10:36
cos-i just checked and it has 3 timers, with 10 min, 5 sec (not repeating) and 10 secs.10:36
*** artemma has joined #sailfishos10:36
cos-not an easy issue to debug10:36
kaltsicos-: you could possibly try to run gdb on the device itself, but the qtcreator to device/emu debugging is broken now10:37
kontiocos-: did you already read: https://together.jolla.com/question/13243/my-app-got-rejected-to-store-because-of-high-power-consumption-how-to-debug-problems/#13247 ?10:37
euroelessarI can't install vim on device by pkcon, hasve somebody faced with the same problem?10:37
cos-kontio: yep.. i'm looking at powertop now10:38
euroelessarpkcon tells that it installed the vim, but it's still is listed as 'Available' package10:38
kaltsieuroelessar: what's the problem?10:38
*** b0bben_ has quit IRC10:39
kontiocos-: and what is your apps name?10:40
cos-kontio: siilihai-mobile10:40
cos-it's available in warehouse10:40
*** gigetoo has quit IRC10:40
kaltsieuroelessar: I'm sure you've noticed the device has 'vi' .. but you want 'vim'?10:40
*** gigetoo has joined #sailfishos10:41
euroelessarkaltsi: it has 'vim-minimal'10:41
ottulocos-: I had a problem with that10:41
cos-the best guess i have is that there's some kind of qml transition running forever10:41
euroelessaras I notice it at least has no highligting support10:42
ottulocos-: I was trying to add a certain forum that works with tapatalk on android, for example, but siilihai said there's no support10:42
kaltsieuroelessar: yes.. ok, so what is the problem you are facing? what is the error?10:42
euroelessarkaltsi: pkcon tell me no error10:42
kaltsihow do you try to install it10:42
cos-ottulo: doublecheck that the url is correct.. add mobiquo/mobiquo.php to end of it and see if you get the tapatalk status page10:42
euroelessarpkcon -v install vim10:42
kaltsithis works for me: pkcon install vim-enhanced10:42
kaltsieuroelessar: use 'pkcon search name vim' .. you can see that 'vim' is only the source package but 'vim-enhanced' is the binary package10:43
cos-ottulo: i can try to subscribe it if you give the url10:43
ottulocos-: I did double check the url, tried with/without index.php at the end... and adding "mobiquo" did take me to tapatalk page10:43
ottulocos-: chilifoorumi.fi10:43
*** macben has quit IRC10:44
euroelessarkaltsi: thanks, this works10:44
kaltsieuroelessar: yw :)10:44
euroelessarbut why there were no errors or any messages?10:45
cos-ottulo: subscibed to it without problems (on desktop client)10:45
ottulocos-: I was trying on the sailfish client, don't know about desktop10:45
kaltsieuroelessar: for me 'pkcon install vim' does say 'installing packages' and no errors.. it installs the source package so there really was no error10:45
cos-ottulo: hmm but it doesn't display any groups for some reason.10:46
euroelessarthe next question is if there is any alternative for 'update-alternative'10:46
*** freedomrun has quit IRC10:46
euroelessarfrom Debian10:46
euroelessarI want to set 'vi' to be symlink to 'vim'10:46
kaltsieuroelessar: hmm or no.. it didn't install anything, strange10:46
kaltsieuroelessar: no there's no 'alternatives' thing10:46
euroelessarthat's sad :(10:47
kaltsieuroelessar: maybe you could make an alias into your .bashrc ..10:47
cos-ottulo: looks like there is some issue with the forum. thanks for reporting!10:47
cos-tapatalk is not the best of protocols.. some forums implement it a bit differently10:47
euroelessarkaltsi: yes, it can work10:47
ottulocos-: is it something at the forum side or app?10:47
ottulooh, if it's different implementation I guess it's really both/neither10:48
cos-ottulo: don't know yet. i'm trying to get the app to work with all kinds of forum implementations.10:48
*** planasb has quit IRC10:48
ottulocos-: all right, good luck!10:49
janieuroelessar: like you propably noticed already, there's no vi, binary is called vim ..10:50
*** _miqu_1 has quit IRC10:51
*** _miqu_ has joined #sailfishos10:51
*** artemma has quit IRC10:52
euroelessarjani: there is binary /bin/vi10:52
euroelessarit's vim, of course, but minimal one10:52
janididnt notice that, maybe i installed different package  then or /bin/ is not in my path atleast..10:53
euroelessarit was automatically installed with developer mode10:53
*** planasb has joined #sailfishos10:56
lbtmy fingers think that is a bug fwiw10:56
*** b0bben has joined #sailfishos10:57
*** veskuh has quit IRC10:58
w00tlbt: we'll fix your incorrect editor habit one day...10:59
lbt*g* I do use vi when I feel I've been bad10:59
janiw00t: ln -s `which emacs` `which vim` ?  =) </sorry>10:59
euroelessaroh, I've just opened 'about:config' in default browser %)10:59
*** alight has quit IRC11:00
* w00t is shocked11:01
*** Zzz has quit IRC11:01
w00tI was about to make a joke about not having emacs installed, but, I do on lea11:01
w00tlbt: now tell me how to quit this thing :P11:01
*** planasb has quit IRC11:02
* lbt passes w00t 'ed'11:02
coderusthp: ping11:02
w00tlbt: ctrl+d11:02
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #sailfishos11:03
lbted:   http://pastie.org/863216811:03
w00tctrl+d is how i've gotten out before :p11:04
lbtoccasionally I run ed just because11:04
fk_lxlet's start favourite editors flame! ;-)11:05
*** artemma has joined #sailfishos11:06
vegaiemacs on touchscreen phones is absolute bliss11:06
vegaiespecially with default bindings11:06
* lbt thinks ed was written by Aard11:06
*** viq has joined #sailfishos11:06
tbrlbt: that nasty?11:06
fk_lxonly good things come from Aard11:07
Aarded is  a beautiful editor11:08
* stephg real men edit files with dd etc. etc.11:09
artemmareal men write their own hard disk drivers11:09
artemmaoh what was that Torvalds'es phrase?11:10
*** planasb has joined #sailfishos11:10
fk_lxreal mens use:11:10
fk_lxcat > some_file11:10
netzviehhttp://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png :)11:11
w00treal programmers use cat to write code for their own editor, compile it, and then edit some_file with it11:11
leinir...did someone hotlink an xkcd comic?!11:13
vegaireal women use eclipse 15.0 and get everything done in 5% the time of real men?11:13
thpcoderus: pong11:13
Milo-I don't know how to close emacs, so I just use killall -9 emacs11:13
Milo-works every time!11:13
fk_lxw00t: :-)11:13
vegaiMilo-: in cron?11:14
Milo-yes. it keeps flooding that once per second.11:14
vegaiin every server you administer? :P11:14
Milo-just in case someone, somewhere, is trapped inside emacs for what ever reason.11:15
cos-i think this discussion is off topic and should end now (emacs ftw!)11:22
FireFlyMilo-: good idea11:22
*** BeholdMyGlory has joined #sailfishos11:24
coderusthp: i didnt understand what you meant here:11:24
coderus"Would there be situations where the app developer wouldn't want to call app->installTranslator() on the QTranslator object? If not, we might want to do the installTranslator call directly inside libsailfishapp."11:24
thpcoderus: if all apps end up calling app->installTranslator(), then we can just as well do that call in libsailfishapp11:24
thpcoderus: however, if some apps don't call that, or do something else with the qtranslator before, then it makes sense to let the app developer call app->installTranslator()11:25
coderusall apps using only SailfishApp::main would use translator11:26
thpcoderus: yeah, and that is fine. the question is, would any app developer /not/ want to call app->installTranslator() on the QTranslator object?11:26
thp(or rather, would any app developer want to do something else with the QTranslator object before calling installTranslator())11:27
thpif they do, then the way it's done now is okay. otherwise i'd do the app->installTranslator() call inside libsailfishapp so that the app developer doesn't have to add that boilerplate code11:27
coderusthp: main point is saving QTranslator object for having option to switching translations on the fly11:29
euroelessarcoderus: why do you need to save QTranslator items?11:29
euroelessarcoderus: it's not expensive to create a new one by request11:30
*** rcg has joined #sailfishos11:30
coderuseuroelessar: to remove existing translator before installing a new one11:30
*** ndvl has joined #sailfishos11:31
*** nodevel has quit IRC11:32
*** jardous has quit IRC11:33
thpcoderus: switching translations on the fly based on system locale change or based on e.g. some ui elements?11:36
thpcoderus: if based on system locale change, we can probably put that directly into libsailfishapp as well (we don't want every app developer to re-invent listening to these configuration changes and juggling around qtranslator objects)11:37
thpif on some ui elements, then we might need to do that indeed11:37
coderusafaik changing system locale forcing os to restart, no?11:37
thp(or keep some internal state and remove the old translator when a new translator is installed with loadTranslation())11:37
thpcoderus: i'm not even sure, let's check..11:37
*** Pat_o_ has quit IRC11:37
coderusi mean uiu elements, yes. its good to have options to change language if existing translation is weird :)11:38
thpcoderus: yeah, right now when i change the system locale in settings, it will restart the device11:38
thpcoderus: so what about remembering the old QTranslator in libsailfishapp and removing it when a new translation is installed?11:38
*** amccarthy_ has quit IRC11:38
*** jardous has joined #sailfishos11:39
*** amccarthy has joined #sailfishos11:39
coderuswher to remember it?11:41
*** macben has joined #sailfishos11:43
*** artemma has quit IRC11:43
coderusthere are no classes11:45
coderusmaking static variable? =|11:45
*** cargocult has joined #sailfishos11:46
*** Venemo has joined #sailfishos11:47
*** veskuh has joined #sailfishos11:50
*** Venemo_j has quit IRC11:50
*** Pat_o_ has joined #sailfishos11:54
*** VDVsx has quit IRC12:03
*** alight has joined #sailfishos12:06
*** VDVsx has joined #sailfishos12:10
*** alight has quit IRC12:11
*** Hurrian has joined #sailfishos12:13
*** c0ck4m0u53 has quit IRC12:13
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC12:16
*** freedomrun has joined #sailfishos12:21
*** Xruxa has quit IRC12:21
*** zhxt has quit IRC12:24
*** b0bben has quit IRC12:25
*** KangOl has quit IRC12:26
*** b0bben has joined #sailfishos12:28
*** Pat_o_ has quit IRC12:29
*** LordVan has joined #sailfishos12:29
LordVani was jus tlooking at the jolla webpage and was wondering if there's another (reasonable effort) way to try out mer/sailfishos ?12:31
sledgesLordVan: for Sailfish for now: VM, Nokia N9/95012:32
LordVansledges, any chance of n900 too?12:32
sledgesMer(Nemo) can be tried on dev board (Pandaboard, AllWinner)12:32
LordVani still got mine12:32
sledgesLordVan: ping vakkov on #nemomobile-porters on n900 effort - he advanced with it recently, see where he's at12:33
LordVandoes anyone have a Jolla phone btw?12:34
Hartzimany does12:34
LordVani would really like to try it but buying one for 400€ just to try it ..12:34
HartziLordVan: You're located at?12:35
LordVannot too far from vienna12:35
Yanielwell if you are lucky you mioght find someone nearby12:35
LordVanthat was what i was hoping ;)12:35
LordVanto find someone who'd let me poke at thiers ;)12:35
HartziLordVan: then you can spend that 400EUR to travelling to finland ;>12:35
LordVanHartzi, tempting, but not at the moment ^^12:36
Hartzihey the weather is now perfect for that12:36
Hartziyou really should ;>12:36
LordVansome time maybe .. but not to look at a phone ^^12:39
LordVanhaha now that is sorta amusing: "Extension interfaces for wireless NFC, power in/out and I2C data connectivity  "  (i2c ? nice ;)12:40
Yanielpeople have already stuck wireless chargers and solar panels to it12:40
LordVanso how's it comparing from a user experience point of view with recent android devices?12:41
LordVani mean i watched the video but well ^  ^12:42
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos12:42
Yanielfrom my limited experience with android devices they seem to work much like Symbian Belle12:42
Yanielwhich I forgot how to use after poking my jolla for 6h12:43
*** phlixi has joined #sailfishos12:48
*** phlixi_ has quit IRC12:48
*** mornfall has quit IRC12:50
LordVanO.o: http://www.ebay.at/itm/Jolla-Sailfish-OS-Smartphone-red-other-half-NEW-/281244272924?pt=DE_Handy_s&hash=item417b77091c 100€ more than from the shop .. v strange12:52
Nicd-well from the official store it's not for sale to the US for example12:53
Nicd-some people might want to pay for it to arrive earlier (delivery time is 3-4 weeks from the official store) and of course there's the red limited edition OH12:54
Yanielthat's quite cheap for one on ebay12:54
LordVanno way i want a red one anyway12:55
LordVan ^^12:56
LordVannot my color12:56
LordVani dont like white either though12:56
radiofreei want orange12:57
LordVanhow well do android apps work on it?12:57
radiofreewhere is the bugzilla for jolla/sailfish?12:57
LordVan- I got a few apps i'D definitely want to use still12:57
radiofreei'm loving it so far, but wifi on the device is awful!12:57
LordVanhow come?12:57
LordVanconnection issues?12:57
radiofreeyeah, very few wifi networks i can actually connect to12:58
radiofreemy home one works though!12:58
LordVansounds odd12:58
radiofreebut when i left the flat this morning, it went into some kind of connection spasm12:58
radiofreehad to reboot the whole phone to switch to 3g12:58
LordVanO.o you should definitely report that one .. so it gets fixed should i get one in the future ;)12:58
radiofreeout of the box only one of the two wireless networks in the office work12:59
radiofreeafter the update neither did :\12:59
radiofreei think it's incorrectly detecting the security settings for it, but there doesn't appear to be anyway to change it13:00
radiofreealso the mobile data stuff needs work13:00
radiofreeit incorrectly default to the first APN on my simcard (it's an o2, but the first on the apn list is giffgaff)13:00
*** KangOl has joined #sailfishos13:01
radiofreeso had to manually enter the mobile settings13:01
radiofreeit really should check through the whole list to see which one works13:01
zuhradiofree: long press on the network in Settings?13:01
radiofreezuh: i tried that, i couldn't change the security though13:02
zuhWhat about forgetting it?13:03
radiofreedidn't work either13:04
*** Xruxa has joined #sailfishos13:04
radiofreei'll try and reproduce the error i had this morning tomorrow as well13:04
radiofreeconnect to wifi at home, leave the flat, experience wifi-spasm13:05
*** macben has quit IRC13:06
*** macben has joined #sailfishos13:07
*** stephg has quit IRC13:09
euroelessaris there any common way to add search engine in addition to 3 default ones?13:16
euroelessaroh, they are hardcoded...13:17
*** cargocult has quit IRC13:17
coderusby hacking /usr/share/jolla-settings/pages/browser/browser.qml13:20
euroelessarcoderus: already found it13:20
coderusand add search engine xml13:21
euroelessarbut looks like default yandex's search engine xml file is not valid13:21
coderuswhy? :)13:21
euroelessarI've copied one from /usr/share/whatever to ~/.mozilla/wahtever, but it now throws me to index page instead of search results13:22
*** alight has joined #sailfishos13:22
*** Finleida has joined #sailfishos13:23
*** mornfall has joined #sailfishos13:25
*** alight has quit IRC13:26
cos-is there a easy way to distribute custom ambiances? something app store like?13:33
coderuseuroelessar: you doing something wrong13:33
coderuscos-: by custom ambiances you mean wallpapers?13:34
euroelessarcoderus: may be13:34
cos-coderus: no, ambiances.13:34
coderuseuroelessar: because its working for me13:34
cos-now there is an idea at least: https://together.jolla.com/question/14792/create-a-service-for-sharing-and-installing-ambiances-easily/13:40
*** martyone_ has quit IRC13:43
euroelessarok, done it13:44
euroelessarneeded to fix yandex.xml a bit13:44
*** fuz_ has quit IRC13:46
*** roboro has quit IRC13:51
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos13:52
*** roboro has quit IRC14:12
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos14:14
*** Kondou has quit IRC14:14
*** Kondou has joined #sailfishos14:17
*** fuz_ has joined #sailfishos14:21
cos-ottulo: the server is responding with "Internal Server Error" to the group list request..14:29
ottulocos-: so it's a server side error... I'll ask the admins about it, maybe they can see what's going on14:30
cos-ottulo: if you are registered to the forum, you could ask the webmaster to check error logs and perhaps upgrade tapatalk plugin14:30
ottuloyep, I know the admins so it's no problem14:30
*** Eztran has joined #sailfishos14:31
ottulonow I gotta go afk for a while, I'll let you know how it goes14:31
*** b0bben has quit IRC14:32
radiofreehow well does the official whatsapp client work on the jolla i wonder14:33
*** _miqu_ has quit IRC14:33
*** b0bben_ has joined #sailfishos14:35
korit does. that's about it14:35
koruse mitäkuuluu, works a lot better14:35
*** roboro has quit IRC14:36
coderusmitakuuluu experiencing problems with sync, we moving to new protocol. no idea how long it will. btw, with official whatsapp you cant access phonebook at all :D14:37
radiofreewell i can't add any contacts on mitakuuluu so i guess they're roughly equal in functionality ;)14:40
*** roboro has joined #sailfishos14:41
*** ZioBilly has joined #sailfishos14:45
*** jukkaeklund has quit IRC14:46
ZioBillyHello, my phone went in a boot loop, i opened a question here https://together.jolla.com/question/13294/jolla-device-in-boot-loop/ and they told me to ask on IRC or contact Stskeeps, can someone help me?14:48
*** mk2soldier has joined #sailfishos14:48
FireFlyStskeeps: ↑14:49
*** goroboro has joined #sailfishos14:49
*** zsombi has quit IRC14:49
*** roboro has quit IRC14:50
FireFlyZioBilly: if you stick around he'll probably see the message sooner or later14:51
*** KangOl has quit IRC14:51
ZioBillyOk :) I hope i can solve this problem..14:52
*** M4renz has joined #sailfishos14:59
M4renzAnyone got experience with installing sailfish OS on the fairphone?14:59
M4renzI'll receive mine soon and wonder whether it's already worth trying to install it15:00
M4renzThough right now I don't even see an install image, at least not linked at the front page15:01
*** LordVan has quit IRC15:02
Nicd-M4renz: there are no official sailfish images for other phones yet15:02
M4renzAh okay15:02
M4renzAre ther inofficial ones?15:05
Nicd-yes, at least for N9 and N95015:05
*** VDVsx has quit IRC15:06
*** clau has joined #sailfishos15:08
M4renzhm okay. I guess I just have to wait till it's ready15:08
M4renzthank you.15:08
*** mk2soldi_ has joined #sailfishos15:10
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC15:11
*** itbaron has joined #sailfishos15:14
*** goroboro is now known as roboro15:19
*** Dotti has quit IRC15:20
*** Dotti has joined #sailfishos15:22
*** flyapen has quit IRC15:25
*** datagutt has joined #sailfishos15:25
*** mk2soldi_ has quit IRC15:26
*** mk2soldier has joined #sailfishos15:26
*** KangOl has joined #sailfishos15:34
*** cargocult has joined #sailfishos15:37
*** veskuh has quit IRC15:37
*** KangOl has quit IRC15:38
*** winfriedd has joined #sailfishos15:38
*** KangOl has joined #sailfishos15:39
*** jardous has quit IRC15:40
*** Venemo has quit IRC15:44
*** macben has quit IRC15:45
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #sailfishos15:49
janihttp://pastebin.com/A2Ne5uWu <- anyone seen this while building ?15:50
janitrying to create new release packageas but it fails for "timeout" .. most likely because this /usr/lib/rpm/check-files seems to 'never' exit ..15:51
Hartzijani: yes many times15:52
Hartzijust restart merSDK15:52
*** Xruxa has quit IRC15:52
*** cargocult has quit IRC15:53
janitried it already few times .. made even sure that vbox is totally dead before starting qt creator ..15:55
*** atiti has quit IRC15:56
*** macben has joined #sailfishos15:57
janicrap-o-la, well .. afk for a while, need to head home.15:59
*** Vant has quit IRC16:08
*** macben has quit IRC16:12
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC16:17
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC16:29
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #sailfishos16:33
*** alight has joined #sailfishos16:34
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC16:34
*** alight has quit IRC16:35
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #sailfishos16:36
janihad to reboot osx before it worked =( (16:39
janihttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/258191/jopasbuilds/harbour-jopas-0.2.0-1.armv7hl.rpm .. test build if some users here want to try out before i get this release to openrepos16:40
Nicd-what is it?16:41
kaltsiis it a good idea to name non-harbour packages harbour-something?16:42
kaltsiwhat's the openrepos url btw.. I'd like to check if there are many harbour- packages there?16:43
janiNicd-: journey planner for hki/tre area here in finland16:44
janikaltsi: https://openrepos.net/16:44
*** b0bben_ has quit IRC16:45
Nicd-jani: ok, I'll try it out16:45
janithere's openrepos client called warehouse somewhere in the openrepos page which allows you to install packages directly from their repos..16:45
Nicd-jani: for local traffic? (buses etc)16:45
janiNicd-: bus/tram/train/metro  ..16:46
janiNicd-: meegopas port basicly16:46
Nicd-I'll download it now16:46
*** spider-mario has joined #sailfishos16:47
janiprevious version (0.1.0) had issue that it did only worked in dev mode ..16:47
*** Zzz has joined #sailfishos16:47
*** clau has quit IRC16:48
*** b0bben has joined #sailfishos16:51
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC16:51
Nicd-yaay, it seems to work :)16:54
*** macben has joined #sailfishos16:57
*** Morpog_Jolla has quit IRC16:58
*** macben has quit IRC17:02
*** jjanvier has quit IRC17:04
*** b0bben has quit IRC17:07
*** Morpog_Jolla has joined #sailfishos17:08
*** ZioBilly has quit IRC17:09
*** VDVsx has joined #sailfishos17:12
*** rcg has quit IRC17:16
*** paju_ has left #sailfishos17:16
*** Morpog_PC has joined #sailfishos17:16
*** ZioBilly has joined #sailfishos17:17
*** ZioBilly has left #sailfishos17:17
*** clau has joined #sailfishos17:18
*** clau has joined #sailfishos17:18
*** jjarven has quit IRC17:19
*** paju has joined #sailfishos17:20
*** macben has joined #sailfishos17:22
*** alight has joined #sailfishos17:24
*** macben has quit IRC17:28
*** alight has quit IRC17:29
*** Pat_o has quit IRC17:32
janiNicd-: where you able to actually get search results ?17:35
janii had tampere set too and i was first thinking wtf is wrong cuz it cant find any routes17:35
jani(im in vantaa)17:36
Nicd-I just read "where"17:36
*** jjarven has joined #sailfishos17:38
janii thought i had introduced some regression first as i was not able to get any results.17:38
jani351 downloads for 0.1.0 release on openrepos ..17:41
radiofreehow do you disable sounds in the messaging app17:42
janiand now available in the openrepos ..17:45
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos17:46
*** ericcc has quit IRC17:52
*** arcean has joined #sailfishos17:52
*** Pat_o has quit IRC17:55
*** Kabouik has quit IRC17:58
*** veskuh has joined #sailfishos18:05
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos18:08
*** roric has quit IRC18:09
*** janmalte has joined #sailfishos18:12
*** euroelessar has quit IRC18:16
*** qqK has joined #sailfishos18:17
*** onurati has joined #sailfishos18:19
*** cargocult has joined #sailfishos18:19
*** macben has joined #sailfishos18:21
*** janmalte has quit IRC18:25
*** Pat_o has quit IRC18:26
*** brunelli has joined #sailfishos18:26
*** Kabouik has joined #sailfishos18:27
*** AlmAck has joined #sailfishos18:27
*** RoKenn has joined #sailfishos18:28
*** KangOl has quit IRC18:28
*** brunelli has quit IRC18:28
*** camporez has joined #sailfishos18:29
*** camporez is now known as brunelli18:29
*** jjanvier has joined #sailfishos18:34
*** sletta has quit IRC18:36
*** brunelli has quit IRC18:41
*** macben has quit IRC18:47
edgarsJan 14 20:42:54 localhost start_alien.sh[1298]: 01-14 18:42:54.442  1428  1488 E MediaPlayerService: Couldn't open fd for content://settings/system/ringtone18:47
edgarsJan 14 20:42:54 localhost start_alien.sh[1298]: 01-14 18:42:54.445  1569  1581 E MediaPlayer: Unable to to create media player18:47
*** alight has joined #sailfishos18:47
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos18:51
*** veskuh has quit IRC18:57
*** jjarven has quit IRC18:58
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC18:58
*** Tomiol80 has joined #sailfishos19:01
*** Pat_o has quit IRC19:01
*** Gugli has joined #sailfishos19:03
*** furikku has quit IRC19:04
*** dafox has joined #sailfishos19:06
*** cargocult has left #sailfishos19:12
*** jjarven has joined #sailfishos19:18
*** KangOl has joined #sailfishos19:21
*** Eismann has joined #sailfishos19:27
kelvanwow mersdk vm is pretty neat, just built nmap for sailfishos :D19:28
*** macben has joined #sailfishos19:32
*** attah has joined #sailfishos19:33
*** winfriedd has quit IRC19:34
*** softmetz has quit IRC19:34
*** softmetz has joined #sailfishos19:35
*** Vant has joined #sailfishos19:42
attahQT noob hgere.. I want to import QtDocGallery 5.0.. but it's not installed it seems, how would i fix that?19:48
*** ndvl has quit IRC19:51
*** ndvl has joined #sailfishos19:51
*** mk2soldier has joined #sailfishos19:51
attahOr rather there is a folder with a qmldir fail in it.. but it's not "exposed".. hmm..19:52
*** clau has quit IRC19:53
*** Zzz has quit IRC19:55
*** M4rtinK has joined #sailfishos19:59
*** dafox has quit IRC20:00
*** SeekingFor has quit IRC20:02
*** jstaniek has joined #sailfishos20:05
*** SeekingFor has joined #sailfishos20:05
janibtw, is there any quicl way to  "factory reset"   emu & sdk images ?20:05
janiattah: i dont know about qtdocgallery  but i think the preferred way is that a) you add the rpm package to spec or yaml file that provides your needed qml - and then deploy it to emu/device as rpm and it should get installed ..20:06
tbrjani: not sure if they are snapshotted in virtualbox20:06
tbrjani: if not get them from the download repository, and snapshot before first start20:07
janiah, forgot to check that ..20:07
attahActually i got some version of it working now.. gives me syntax errors in QT creator.. but it builds20:08
attahmaybe i should switch to vim or something.. IDEs can't be trusted20:08
attahat least with pebkac like me20:08
janisnapshots not enabled .. but really really good idea, thanks =)20:08
tbrjani: http://releases.sailfishos.org/sdk/repository/common/org.merproject.mersdk/20:10
tbri bet those 7z's are the VMs20:10
attahWHAT?!?!? I succed to list my music library in my phone, the *first* time i intend to do so20:13
attahSurely it must go down the drain from now on20:13
M4rtinKstuff working on the first time is suspicious :)20:13
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos20:18
*** dafox has joined #sailfishos20:20
attahJust a gentle nudge from Murphy: Toggle comment went all /**/ on me instead of // on every line.. doesn't work in qml..20:21
*** onurati has quit IRC20:23
*** Pat_o has quit IRC20:23
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos20:23
*** onurati has joined #sailfishos20:23
*** piggz has joined #sailfishos20:25
sunkanMy updated app is now in the jolla store, but my phone does not prompt me to update or anything.. In "My apps" it looks as if the new version is installed (showing the new app icon). I have not seen any app update yet, is that non-working at the moment?20:27
*** inara has quit IRC20:27
*** rashm2k has joined #sailfishos20:30
Tegusunkan: not sure but try to open it in the category view (just All because it sorts the list by time). some time ago an app got updated but I could only install it from there but not from "my apps"20:34
sunkanTegu: It looks the same when I go that way.. It will probably work if I uninstall/install it, but I can't expect people that don't know it has been updated to do that..20:38
*** Finleida has quit IRC20:42
*** freedomrun has quit IRC20:49
*** inara has joined #sailfishos20:51
attahSo I tried making a gallerymodel with rootType: ...Album, but i can only get the property "title" to work.. neither "artist" or "albumArtist" can be printed in the delegated element20:52
*** BeholdMyGlory has quit IRC20:54
*** itbaron has quit IRC20:54
*** Bloob has quit IRC21:05
*** atiti has joined #sailfishos21:07
*** LoRdToLsToI is now known as Castiel21:08
*** Castiel is now known as Ombladon21:08
*** macben has quit IRC21:17
*** Blizzz has quit IRC21:18
*** jstaniek_ has joined #sailfishos21:32
*** Pat_o has quit IRC21:32
*** jstaniek has quit IRC21:35
*** Pat_o has joined #sailfishos21:38
*** Pat_o has quit IRC21:42
*** Vant has quit IRC21:48
M4rtinKpost-you-together-question time !21:50
*** Vant has joined #sailfishos21:50
M4rtinK*your :)21:50
Jonnisunkan: afaik it takes some time after qa approval before it hits the store backend.21:50
M4rtinKideas ? :)21:50
*** Vant has quit IRC21:51
sunkanJonni: I see the new icon and the new version number in the store on the phone. But the phone does not understand that it should update the app.. Really strange..21:59
*** ZioBilly has joined #sailfishos22:00
Jonniwell pkcon refresh only happens on some random intervals22:00
attahit appears that DocumentGallery.Album is borked.. it has no albumArtist property (or it's empty) FML22:03
*** ZioBilly has quit IRC22:03
*** javispedro has joined #sailfishos22:05
*** javispedro has joined #sailfishos22:05
sunkanJonni: Ok, I'll check how it looks tomorrow then. If still nothing I'll do a manual refresh to see what happens. Thanks for the hint.22:06
* sunkan now needs to sleep..22:06
*** spider-mario has quit IRC22:08
*** piggz has quit IRC22:10
*** attah has quit IRC22:16
DarkSimHow is the security in Sailfish?22:21
DarkSimLike Android have permissions and sandboxing22:21
*** onurati has quit IRC22:21
M4rtinKmuch more simple & robust22:22
*** cxl000 has quit IRC22:22
DarkSimBut is it secure?22:22
M4rtinKQA makes sure only safe apps get to the app store22:22
M4rtinKQA = Quality Assurance22:23
specialapplications should be trusted. There is no sandboxing or particularly strong privilege control, currently.22:23
JonniDarkSim: same security than unix directory permissions, so depends if you consider Linux / Unix to be secure.22:23
DarkSimI'm not being offensive though I'm just genuinely curious22:23
DarkSimhaving a smartphone OS debate in another channel22:23
DarkSimmentioned Sailfish and got immediatly shot down for it being insecure in comparison to Android22:24
specialinsecure in the sense of "an application running on the device is able to do things the user may not have wanted", yes22:24
M4rtinKapplication sandboxing is very hard to do properly22:24
Jonniif you compare malware in sailfish vs android,   sailfish = 0, android = 10000000+ so it depends on the point of view22:24
Jonnibut ofcourse installbase is different too22:25
M4rtinKwithout severely limiting application functionality22:25
M4rtinKand once a malicious app gets in, you are in trouble anyway22:25
M4rtinKand considering the crazy wide permissions many Android apps require to even run, even Sandbox is not much help22:27
DarkSimHm, OK22:27
M4rtinKregarding Sailfish OS22:27
M4rtinKit is pretty close to a regular Linux distribution22:28
*** macben has joined #sailfishos22:28
M4rtinKAKA the stuff that runs most servers on the Internet22:28
specialthere's no need for a defensive tone22:28
M4rtinKbut it all boils down to what you install22:29
Jonnimostly security depends on end user, if you install stuff from untrusted sources to desktop machines then its pretty much your own actions that define if your machine is secure or not, same if you root your android and press yes on every permission question from stuff that you sideload.22:30
*** AlmAck has quit IRC22:30
*** dafox has quit IRC22:30
*** freedomrun has joined #sailfishos22:31
*** AlmAck has joined #sailfishos22:31
Jonniand luckily there hasnt been any malware released to sailfish yet, so there hasnt been malware issues, but if at some point sales figures increase and malware writers look in this way, then its upto end users decision if he installs blindly from untrusted sources, or from trusted sources.22:32
*** macben has quit IRC22:32
specialof course, the question is not just about malware22:33
specialthere's also privacy, controlling resources and information on behalf of the user22:33
Jonniwell yes, its just a generalization, ofcourse your servers can have remote exploits etc.22:33
Jonnibut generally sailfish users are quite aware what their device is doing, if they notice some application missbehaving ie gathering some private data etc, its beeing noticed quite quickly.22:36
javispedrotbh, I see nothing wrong in admitting it may be less secure22:37
javispedrobecause this makes it more convenient22:38
specialit is much harder to get away with on a platform with strace, tcpdump, dbus-monitor, and gdb ;)22:38
javispedropeople do this every time22:38
*** mk2soldier has quit IRC22:39
javispedrosay, if your user programs can just open() and read the contacts database,22:39
Jonniwell yes, Harmattan Aegis was more secure in many ways, but it also hindered the progress.22:39
javispedroinstead of having to IPC every contact because of some ultra-strict security sandbox,22:39
javispedromakes the design simpler, more performing, etc.22:39
javispedro(the con is also obvious)22:40
specialthe tradeoffs are something that need careful thought. I'm glad we didn't try to rush into something.22:40
specialI would like to, in time, see more user-empowering security features (like requiring explicit user approval to access certain resources or data)22:41
Jonniwell there is the simple unix security protecting for example facebook contacts, nemo user doesnt have access to read that db and rw access is only available on jolla system app group.22:42
faenilI can't run strace/dbg/whatnot on every app I want to install22:42
javispedroeven stock android doesn't go "all the way", as other sandbox proposals have22:44
javispedroe.g. there's still the READ_SDCARD token (=~ STEAL_MY_PHOTOS, READ_MY_BACKUPS, ...)22:44
Jonni(and store QA checks that applications cannot request that group by default).22:44
javispedrowhich every other program requests.22:44
javispedro(as an alternative, they may have gone the "permission dialog is actually a file open dialog" route, so the token grants access to user specified file only)22:45
javispedrobut those are pain to implement, both for platform and program developers.22:45
Jonniand also a pain for end users. I as a end user dont ever want to even see yes/no dialogs, if I see that kind of dialogs I'm throwing and smashing the device on the wall.22:47
faeniljavispedro, but still, I don't really like the fact that apps can do everything without me knowing :/22:47
faenilespecially in a hackers-oriented community22:48
javispedroJonni: sadly, the benevolent dictator approach doesn't work that well with more enlightened users22:48
* javispedro hides22:48
Jonnione of the reasons why I have never gotten me android phone is that I dont want to see any permission dialogs.22:48
javispedrofaenil: well, as Jonni put, the current way is the way desktop Linux has been doing for the past 20 years22:48
faeniljavispedro, yeah but on desktop linux you don't just install random apps22:49
*** nsm has quit IRC22:49
*** nsm_ has joined #sailfishos22:49
faenilthere are known apps for 99% of the usecases22:49
*** nsm_ is now known as nsm22:49
faeniland you know you *are supposed to* trust those authors22:49
faenilwhich is not the case for sailfish22:49
faenilso, I don't see those two anywhere close22:49
*** rashm2k has quit IRC22:50
*** rashm2k1 has joined #sailfishos22:50
*** nsm has quit IRC22:50
*** atiti has quit IRC22:50
javispedrodon't know -- I certainly install plenty of things on my desktop, possibly way more than on my portable devices.22:50
javispedroand yet each and every of them has the "permission" to delete my entire $HOME.22:50
faenilsure, but what are the sources..22:51
javispedroincluding this very IRC program.22:51
faenilis it 99% completely unknown individuals, like it is on mobile markets?22:51
*** nsm has joined #sailfishos22:51
Jonniheh, and as long as I have a say in OS there wont be any dialogs in the device. (I might give up on tight dictator view and allow some setting for paranoid people).22:52
*** radiofree is now known as PRIVMSG22:52
faenilJonni, ahah :)22:52
*** PRIVMSG is now known as radiofree22:52
faenilI don't know, I think desktop and mobile are so different you can't just compare them22:52
*** nsm has quit IRC22:52
faenileven just because doing malware for mobiles or getting user data from phones is the last few years' fashion22:53
javispedrofaenil: most of the "protection" on the desktop comes from the fact you're using your distro's repository, and thus "many eyes" have looked at it22:53
javispedrobut a similar reasoning applies to, say, Harbour.22:53
faenildoes it22:53
specialthe state of desktop security is pathetic.22:53
faenilbecause I think it doesn't :)22:53
javispedrofaenil: hey, ask the Harbour guys =)22:53
faeniljavispedro, no I mean, the installbase is not that comparable..22:54
faeniland if there's a package in a distro repo, it's probably not coming from a complete stranger22:54
specialfaenil: you'd be surprised, sometimes :p22:54
faenilyou have so many layers of trust on desktop, which you don't have on mobile/sailfish, imho22:55
javispedrofaenil: true in that at least to get packaged you'd need to make a github repo and some complexity so that a cursory examination does not reveal your evil intentions =)22:55
javispedrowhile on an app store this "cursory examination" is probably limited to running the program and pushing some buttons22:56
faeniljavispedro, I don't remember it being that easy to enter a distro repo, btw22:56
javispedrosuppose that depends on the distr22:57
javispedroJonni: are you against all kinds of prompts? or just android or ios prompt styles? :)22:59
*** Tomiol80 has quit IRC23:00
specialprompts are often a stupid and lazy way to pass the responsibility of being secure onto the (probably unqualified) user.23:00
specialsee also: windows UAC23:00
javispedroyes, but who are you going to pass the responsability? the ghostbusters?23:01
specialbut it's a difficult balance and an area that we're (the computing industry) just starting to explore23:01
specialwell, if you ask Apple, you should pass the responsibility on to them instead. They'll keep you safe.23:01
javispedroand yet they're the inventors of "$PROGRAM wants to mess with your girlfriend. Allow access to contacts?" prompt!23:02
specialthose are good prompts, in my opinion.23:02
specialthey're immediate, they're directly empowering the user, there is a realistic option to decline23:03
speciala bad prompt would be android app stores; you get a huge list of permissions, and your choices are to install with all of those or not install at all.23:03
*** arcean_ has joined #sailfishos23:04
javispedroI see annoying prompts as a benefit23:05
javispedrothey're there not to bother the user, but the developer23:05
javispedroat least that was the idea with UAC.23:05
javispedrosupposedly, educated users would prefer programs that would require less of those annoying prompts to work23:05
Jonnijavispedro: well yes, generally I'm against of all kinds of promts, people are stupid and dont understand the questions, and even if someone understands the usability is gone. But yes, I dont have easy solution who to pass the responsibility, maybe some kind of community based voting system which gives plus and minus trust points.23:06
javispedroinstead of blaming the operating system for putting those prompts in the first place.23:06
javispedrounfortunately, educated users are endangered species.23:06
faenilJonni, you can just "remember this" and it's done23:06
faenilor just grant have a setting23:06
faenil"ask" or "grant all"23:06
*** arcean has quit IRC23:07
faenilso you get no prompts and you're happy23:07
*** arcean_ is now known as arcean23:07
special"many people are stupid" is not a valid reason to treat all people as being stupid; if you do this, you have a platform only appealing to stupid people.23:07
faenilbut at the same time if you want to know if it's trying to send your location to the happy developer who wants to make a googlemap of his botnet, you can23:07
javispedrospecial: I think that's the point these days :) there's nothing wrong with assuming a stupid user. A) It sells more B) We all have our stupid days23:08
Jonniwell maybe stupid is not the right reason, the usability is the most important reason for me, I really get annoyed to see prompts23:08
faenilJonni, -> setting :)23:08
specialfaenil: have you never heard my settings rant? :p23:08
faenilspecial, nope23:08
specialsettings are lazy. You should design your application to be usable and ideal for a majority of the users/cases you're targetting without any settings of any kind23:09
JonniI would prefer not to have setting, I'm more dreaming about some trust based voting cloud that verifies my apps and automaticly removes mallware23:09
faenilspecial, agree, but since Jonni really wants to be happy... :p23:09
special*then* you can add settings as tweaks for users and situations that don't fit those cases. Settings aren't an excuse for bad defaults.23:09
faenilspecial, agree23:10
javispedroJonni: that works until the early-adopters of programs decide to revolt because their contacts have been deleted too many times =)23:10
specialJonni: I think malware is a different topic.23:10
Jonniand we 1st have to fix the bigger holes before even thinking about thse kind of settings and dialogs...23:12
faenilthat is a different matter :D23:12
specialacademic discussion right now, no doubt23:12
FireFlyJonni: it's not just malware vs. non-malware. for instance, would you want an arbitrary game or whatever to have the right to read your contacts and messages?23:16
* javispedro grabs two large trouts -- respectively called "extensibility" and "customizability" -- and slaps "no-settings-lover" special with them23:16
Yanielone could consider that "malware"23:16
Yanielif it reads those23:17
specialjavispedro: I'm an OS X user.23:17
*** DarkSim has quit IRC23:17
specialYaniel: what about a social networking application that sends your contacts to a server to discover friends? is that malware? is it only malware if it doesn't ask first?23:18
javispedrospecial: never had the urge to get a global menu bar on $GNU_LINUX_DESKTOP (if you ever used one)?23:18
javispedrospecial: didn't feel sad when e.g. Gnome decided not to offer the option23:19
Yanielfor a social networking app that is kind of an expected feature (albeit one I don't exactly agree with)23:19
Yanielbut for a game? hardly23:19
specialYaniel: the point I'm making is that if you start applying the "malware" label, it gets very vague.23:19
Yanielthat's what I meant as well23:19
Yanielthe line is quite blurry23:20
specialI would classify "malware" as software that is explicitly acting against the interests of the user or their device; unauthorized bitcoin mining, bank account hijacks, RAT/surveillance23:20
specialthere's a separate category of software that is simply invasive; but everyone's definition there is different.23:21
javispedro(my last line was missing a ?, btw)23:21
specialjavispedro: I think excessive extensibility and customization is a major weakness of desktop linux, historically. There is a modern trend of eliminating some of it, and it's showing positive results.23:22
javispedrohow many people rejected $CANDY_CRUSH_CLONE because it included "doing whatever it feels like doing with my address book" in its permission list.23:22
*** nsm has joined #sailfishos23:23
javispedrothe fact that these games spam your address book / facebook / etc. are considered _features_ by the users.23:23
pp_send them to 7 ad networks23:23
FireFlyMake it an optional feature, then23:23
pp_and my imei plaintext over http23:23
pp_welcome to android23:23
javispedroonce you're at that point, 'm not sure how a "one-rule-fits-all" benevolent dictator can keep everyone happy.23:23
FireFlyI want to know what I allow a program to do23:23
specialjavispedro: particularly when said dictator's benevolance is in question, because their revenue is directly from targetted advertising too. Not that I'd mention any companies in particular.23:24
*** KangOl has quit IRC23:24
specialat least apple makes their money by honestly taking my money upfront23:25
*** RoKenn has quit IRC23:25
Yanielanyway, that is a singleplayer game so by definition it has absolutely no reason to access contacts, calendars, network etc23:25
javispedroin its defense tough, the *cough* web search dictator does offer the "long list of permissions" dialog.23:25
Yanielonline highscores... meh, if you insist. but still no address book23:25
specialthe android permissions model is worth studying and learning from, definitely23:25
javispedroone might argue that it's in Google's interests not to actually give any incentive for people to carefully study permissions lists23:26
javispedroor to be restrictive in what they allow. Because that would kill in-app advertising.23:26
*** AlmAck has quit IRC23:27
*** jstaniek_ has quit IRC23:27
specialjavispedro: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/12/google-removes-vital-privacy-features-android-shortly-after-adding-them23:28
*** rm_work has quit IRC23:32
*** rm_work|away has joined #sailfishos23:33
*** rm_work|away is now known as rm_work23:33
*** rm_work has joined #sailfishos23:33
*** leinir has quit IRC23:47
*** triggerhappy has joined #sailfishos23:49
*** leinir has joined #sailfishos23:50
*** rashm2k1 has quit IRC23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!