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| coderus | if anyone have/have friend with root-unlocked WP device please ping me | 04:54 |
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| north | Hi. Where can I browse/download/checkout sailfish OS source code ? | 05:49 |
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| tbr | north: it's all over github, except for the closed source bits | 05:58 |
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| tbr | north: if you want specifically all open source licensed code that was used for a specific firmware, you can request a DVD to be snail-mailed by jolla | 05:58 |
| tbr | or you just go here http://images.formeego.org/jolla/sources/ | 05:59 |
| tbr | that at least covers update 4 for now. the rest is on its way. | 05:59 |
| north | I want to port Sailfish os to Nexus 4. I am looking forward to build my own image from source tbr | 05:59 |
| tbr | ok, that needs a _very_ different approach | 06:00 |
| tbr | also no porting needed as there alreayd _is_ a nexus 4 port | 06:00 |
| north | ok. I am vaguely aware of how Sailfish OS is organized | 06:02 |
| tbr | there are detailed installation instructions. somewhereâ„¢. but you can probably find them using google. | 06:03 |
| north | Also, Sailfish OS's site mentions a real alternative, but I think its only with the libhybris | 06:04 |
| north | if you take out libhybris, sailfish os can't talk to hardware | 06:05 |
| north | which means its essentially not a real alternative on the whole, but only with the Higher layer elements. | 06:05 |
| north | correct me if I am wrong | 06:05 |
| north | Ubuntu-touch is a similar case | 06:08 |
| north | right ? | 06:08 |
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| Stskeeps | north: if you're around in 50 mins i will give you a runthrough | 06:11 |
| Stskeeps | r | 06:11 |
| north | Stskeeps: sure | 06:12 |
| Stskeeps | our x86 emulator doesnt use libhybris, fwiw | 06:12 |
| north | I mean the mobile uses libhybris to talk to the underlying hardware | 06:16 |
| Stskeeps | so; architecturally, we rely just on having a hardware adaptation that can do ofono, bluez, opengl es 2.0 with wayland protocol and able to do pulseaudio | 06:17 |
| Stskeeps | when you go to a ODM, you practically have to either have to make a massive investment into porting drivers to non-android, or reuse what's there | 06:18 |
| Stskeeps | and take it from me, even if you do get drivers for whatever miracolous reason, for let's say, wayland, or x11, quality is bad | 06:18 |
| Stskeeps | so what libhybris enables us to do is to reuse the hardware adaptation that's already been productized for a certain chipset | 06:19 |
| Stskeeps | and focusing on what we're good at, enabling experience, building a good OS, etc | 06:19 |
| north | Yes. Isn't the libhybris way a lil overhead ? | 06:19 |
| Stskeeps | not as far as we can see | 06:19 |
| Stskeeps | the amount of cycles needed is minimal | 06:19 |
| Stskeeps | a tiny bit of memory overhead, sure, but compared to the investment needed to get 'native' drivers and get to market quicker.. | 06:20 |
| pp | less than having everything in Java, I'm sure ;) | 06:20 |
| north | Fact is I am not criticizing the project but trying to contribute to the community. | 06:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i know - hence me explaining the setup | 06:20 |
| north | So Sailfish OS uses the workaround of rilmodem-plugin of ofono like Ubuntu-touch does ? | 06:21 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 06:21 |
| Stskeeps | we invented libhybris, they invented rilmodem-plugin, it's a fair trade ;) | 06:21 |
| north | which pretty much makes UT and Sailfish similar OS, with minor differences | 06:22 |
| north | ? | 06:22 |
| Stskeeps | i'm aware there's alternatives like freedreno and such, but the value of having a ODM/chipset supported modem implementation, opengles stack, etc is just immensely important when it comes down to numbers | 06:22 |
| Stskeeps | well | 06:22 |
| Stskeeps | ours was built from bottom up to be for mobile | 06:22 |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu was built from bottom up to be a desktop and server OS | 06:22 |
| Stskeeps | and some of these things are really really hard to chop off | 06:22 |
| north | Where can I see the porting guide for Sailfish OS ? | 06:23 |
| Stskeeps | that one is getting released hopefully within 1 1/2 week if we're lucky | 06:23 |
| Stskeeps | what device do you have in mind? | 06:23 |
| Stskeeps | or SoC, rather | 06:24 |
| north | I have a Nexus4 and Micromax Canvas devices at my diposal | 06:24 |
| Stskeeps | ok, nexus 4 you can try to download already now | 06:25 |
| north | But I want to go as OpenSource way as possible because, the RIL and stuff are completely closed. | 06:25 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 06:25 |
| Stskeeps | it's easier to from a working setup, from a community pov, and then replacing closed bits one by one | 06:25 |
| Stskeeps | people get interested in your work, instead of hw support being buggy from day 1 | 06:26 |
| Stskeeps | the quicker people can use it as a daily device, the better | 06:26 |
| north | I would like to know, how many people do you think know that this particular project exists ? | 06:26 |
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| north | Because I came I to know about this project from libhybris | 06:27 |
| north | :p | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | hehe.. quite a few | 06:27 |
| Stskeeps | also, there's one difference between sailfishos and ubuntu -- we've factually shipped a device, productized it, field tested gotten it certified in head and bottom, operator tested, and in hands on many many consumers | 06:27 |
| north | Which device is it ? | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | see jolla.com | 06:28 |
| Stskeeps | and that is reflected immensely in quality | 06:28 |
| north | And the project wiki claims that Android apps can be installed side-by-side with Sailfish OS apps | 06:29 |
| north | Actually this project should've got more limelight than it is having now, if it can support Android apps too | 06:30 |
| north | :p | 06:30 |
| Stskeeps | sure | 06:31 |
| Stskeeps | but we're in EU markets currently, not worldwide | 06:31 |
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| Stskeeps | making ourselves more known through downloadable sailfishos for your device though | 06:32 |
| Nicd- | north: android apps work quite well, you can even have google play if you're willing to run a few terminal commands :P | 06:33 |
| north | Nicd-: on a scale of five how much is the OS complete ? supporting devs and users pov ? | 06:33 |
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| Stskeeps | also note we've been developing this since what, almost two years now? | 06:34 |
| Stskeeps | with 100 people | 06:35 |
| Nicd- | north: maybe 3. there's some way to go with features and bugfixes (some nice things are coming in the future updates) but it's a working OS already and you can dev for it just fine | 06:35 |
| Nicd- | but that's just my opinion | 06:36 |
| Nicd- | personally I'm really happy with it (and indeed writing software for it whenever I have the time) | 06:36 |
| pp | yea, mostly just polish needed | 06:37 |
| north | sounds really cool. I would love to contribute to the community | 06:38 |
| Stskeeps | feel free to hang out here then, and/or #jollamobile | 06:39 |
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| Juuba | i'm no developer, but i almost would give the Sailfish a mark of 4/5 | 06:48 |
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| iekku | north, welcome :) | 06:53 |
| kimmoli | good morning to people of this channel ! | 06:55 |
| iekku | good morning kimmoli | 06:55 |
| iekku | nice and sunny day :) | 06:55 |
| kimmoli | windy here in espoo | 06:56 |
| iekku | doesn't seem so windy in tampere | 06:57 |
| iekku | working at bus while travelling to office :P | 06:57 |
| iekku | good time to read mails and reply | 06:57 |
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| kimmoli | already at office, trying to get connected to jolla samba share while having breakfast | 07:01 |
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| north | Initially Sailfish OS was built for Nokia N900 ? | 07:03 |
| Nicd- | no | 07:03 |
| ln- | thp: a small SDL2 sample (without OpenGL) that works fine in the emulator, but shows only a black screen on the phone: https://github.com/lanurmi/sailfish-minimal-sdl (and even crashes on the phone if SDL_RENDERER_SOFTWARE is used). | 07:04 |
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| Nicd- | north: here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mer_and_mobile_operating_systems.svg | 07:04 |
| north | But Sailfish OS supports Nokia N900 ? | 07:04 |
| Stskeeps | no | 07:04 |
| Nicd- | Nokia N900 had Maemo | 07:04 |
| north | ok | 07:05 |
| Nicd- | in theory I guess you could at some point put Sailfish on the N900. but the hardware can be too slow for it to run nicely | 07:06 |
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| north | is the source hosted at Github ? | 07:11 |
| Nicd- | yes, the open parts | 07:11 |
| Stskeeps | it's kinda spread out atm | 07:11 |
| Stskeeps | we're fixing that, albeit too slowly | 07:11 |
| north | What parts of Sailfish OS are closed ? | 07:12 |
| north | The gesture stuff ? | 07:12 |
| Stskeeps | basically UI; with exception of virtual keyboards, silica QML files, and sailfish browser | 07:13 |
| Stskeeps | all middleware and core stuff open | 07:13 |
| Nicd- | jolla's builtin apps are closed except for the browser afaik | 07:14 |
| north | Any plans of licensing the whole project under FOSS licenses ? | 07:14 |
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| north | Because Wikipedia mentions it | 07:14 |
| north | reference 36 | 07:14 |
| Stskeeps | can't trust everything wikipedia says :P | 07:15 |
| Nicd- | I believe it is Jolla's end goal but not currently feasible for financial or business reasons | 07:16 |
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| Nicd- | that's what I have understood from the statements they've given | 07:16 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not sure how that reference supports that wikipedia statement | 07:16 |
| Stskeeps | it talks about 'truly open ecosystem' | 07:16 |
| north | hehe | 07:18 |
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| saidinesh5 | Stskeeps: the sailfish virtualkeyboard is closed right? | 07:25 |
| Stskeeps | yes but not layouts | 07:25 |
| tachikoma | just want to say how much I love my jolla :) | 07:25 |
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| saidinesh5 | Stskeeps: so what if i compile and install another maliit plugin? how to get sailfish to use it? | 07:27 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not sure, sorry -- but you might want to take a look at what other people did | 07:27 |
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| saidinesh5 | hmm.... | 07:28 |
| Stskeeps | as i'm sure there's alternative plugins | 07:29 |
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| fk_lx_ | don't belive Jolla, better read this: https://twitter.com/hardcodes/status/473127527582425090 | 07:31 |
| fk_lx_ | and this: http://jollamoralstandards.blogspot.com/ | 07:31 |
| saidinesh5 | Stskeeps: googling for them | 07:31 |
| fk_lx_ | Arrogance, arrogance and once again arrogance | 07:31 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 07:31 | |
| fk_lx_ | Sven puts it the best, he got attracted by words, by those pitching many were attracted | 07:32 |
| stephg | +1 to what tachikoma said | 07:32 |
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| Stskeeps | fk_lx_: it's fine to critisise, but consider to be more constructive about it, this is first warning, next time, you get banned | 07:33 |
| fk_lx_ | Stskeeps: go on, you are good at it, especially banning and justyfing it by unjust accusations | 07:33 |
| fk_lx_ | Stskeeps: btw. this is official Jolla channel, so you will be baning as Jolla employee | 07:34 |
| fk_lx_ | good reason to sue Jolla for discrimination and kicking people for personal reasons | 07:34 |
| fk_lx_ | and yes my criticsm is constructive | 07:34 |
| fk_lx_ | Sven post is constructive | 07:34 |
| ln- | discriminating annoying people is not a crime, unless it's based on their gender, sexual orientation, or race. | 07:35 |
| fk_lx_ | if you don't have enough that you will be sued here in Poland and want your company to be sued in Finland, then go on | 07:35 |
| Stskeeps | i'm aware and i will be doing it based on good community management reasons, such as this good old article: how to deal with poisonous people in your communities, http://blogs.oreilly.com/conferences/2006/07/oscon-how-open-source-projects.html | 07:35 |
| fk_lx_ | ln-: get yourself familiar with Finnish law | 07:35 |
| fk_lx_ | Stskeeps: speaking of poisonous people, maybe look at the mirror | 07:36 |
| fk_lx_ | Stskeeps: throw stone if you aren't without fault, isn't that what Bible says | 07:36 |
| fk_lx_ | ln-: http://jollamoralstandards.blogspot.com/2014/05/legal-steps.html | 07:36 |
| fk_lx_ | ln-: discrimination for personal reasons is a crime | 07:36 |
| ballock | oh, somebody has a bad day | 07:37 |
| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*fk_lx@37.187.81.* | 07:37 | |
| *** fk_lx_ was kicked by Stskeeps (Poisonous person, if anybody wants to argue with this in a calm manner, please let's discuss) | 07:37 | |
| SK_work | thanks god | 07:37 |
| SK_work | (and thanks Stskeeps) | 07:37 |
| stephg | +1 | 07:37 |
| * kimmoli does not measure bllodpressure just now | 07:37 | |
| stephg | kimmoli, you've not made a TOH to do that yet ;:? | 07:37 |
| Stskeeps | and note: i'm not angry, at all, at the moment, or upset, despite everything, but, this fullfills so many things in typical irc guidelines and how to deal with people in a community | 07:37 |
| tachikoma | srsly - this is only about mtp??? | 07:38 |
| tachikoma | or do i miss something | 07:38 |
| Stskeeps | tachikoma: nah, hardcodes' post is reasonable | 07:38 |
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| Stskeeps | criticism , especially constructive, is very useful | 07:38 |
| Stskeeps | when it's presented in a personal attacking manner, it's not | 07:38 |
| VDVsx | mtp seems to be hot topic these days :) | 07:38 |
| SK_work | VDVsx: :D | 07:38 |
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| Stskeeps | i didn't know, fwiw, that MTP was the suggested replacement for mass storage | 07:39 |
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| Stskeeps | in usb | 07:39 |
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| Stskeeps | also, note, that discussing the above ban does not in any way mean i'll ban you or otherwise, so feel free to state if you disagree | 07:40 |
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| kimmoli | :) | 07:41 |
| VDVsx | yeah, think everybody here knows well that particular person :) | 07:41 |
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| kimmoli | i think that when you are marketing stuff, you need to be arrogant in some level - (but not tv-shop -level) | 07:41 |
| tachikoma | ok, I don;t like mtp either but I can accept change | 07:42 |
| * kimmoli googles mtp but dont find anything for this context | 07:42 | |
| flux | in the end I imagine Jolla should support 'all' of them - in particular the new block-storage emulator for filesystem is interesting - so isn't it mostly a question of priorization? | 07:42 |
| ballock | http://xkcd.com/1357/ | 07:43 |
| * Stskeeps ponders if that's 'standards' or 'free speech' | 07:44 | |
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| tachikoma | I see disadvantages with the phone, yes, but for me the advantages still win | 07:45 |
| tachikoma | battery life for example | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, you're on latest update? | 07:45 |
| Stskeeps | and how does your usage look like | 07:45 |
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| kimmoli | was batterylife disadvantage or advantage? | 07:46 |
| tachikoma | I'm on the latest update, occasionally surf, do mail, chat, phone calls, sms. Runs for at least 4 days without additional charge - just awesome | 07:46 |
| lbt | kimmoli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol | 07:46 |
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| tachikoma | kimmoli: advantage ;) | 07:46 |
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| kimmoli | tachikoma: that i thought of | 07:47 |
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| lbt | Also this talk from ELC http://elcabsna2014.sched.org/event/dc8501b86dfd95801691c156a8b7343f# - if audio ever materialises it's worth a listen | 07:48 |
| tachikoma | but biggest advantage for me prsonally is the fact that i can develop small games for my kids in the evening with qml in a extremely easy way | 07:48 |
| nahkiss | that guy really made my day, taking a law suit against company because they banned you from their irc channel. Not sure if he thought he was in america | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: ah, yes | 07:48 |
| Stskeeps | i should watch that | 07:48 |
| ballock | While we are "giving constructive feedback", I occasionally get high battery drain without any application topping that, with phone overheating, and frozen UI with red blinking. | 07:49 |
| tachikoma | yes, I know i can also run those on android - but after 3 days of trying to the the development system for android working I still failed to get a single qml app packaged in a way that it was installable or runable on the android tablet. | 07:49 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: I'm still doing a summary of ELC - got distracted :) | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | ballock: yes -- there's a blocking dbus call somewhere that goes nuts | 07:49 |
| Stskeeps | hopefully next update kills that permentnly | 07:49 |
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| ballock | I would also like my calendar more obvious, like a widget or so, I don't always remember to start it and I miss people's birthdays. | 07:50 |
| ballock | Stskeeps: good :) | 07:50 |
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| kimmoli | i hade my first sudden reboot yesterday | 07:50 |
| kimmoli | or was it 2nd | 07:50 |
| Stskeeps | kimmoli: talk to care if it says SMPL in /var/log/systemboot.log | 07:50 |
| Stskeeps | ballock: i usually just keep it open, but i wouldn't mind having 'start these at boot' | 07:51 |
| ballock | is there something going on with btrfs too? At one point I pushed 4 GB of pictures to off-load my camera | 07:51 |
| tachikoma | when I have some time left I'll also send my games to harbour, I got a nice memory game where one can use own pictures as content | 07:51 |
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| ballock | and it made the phone crawl | 07:51 |
| Stskeeps | ballock: how did you push it? | 07:51 |
| ballock | cp | 07:51 |
| ballock | from the sd | 07:51 |
| Stskeeps | well, may not necessarily be about btrfs but simple i/o starvation | 07:52 |
| ballock | and by camera I meant an external, sd-fat32 camera which was out of space | 07:52 |
| ballock | That would be true *during* the copy, not for the next 2 days. | 07:53 |
| kimmoli | Stskeeps: nope. Shutdown message is just missing, hw reboot | 07:53 |
| Stskeeps | kimmoli: hmm so maybe kernel crash | 07:55 |
| kimmoli | let me see my journal | 07:56 |
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| tachikoma | jollamoralstandards - wtf seriously !?!? | 07:59 |
| Dr_Cain | I put electical tape under the battery to get rid of the sudden reboots | 08:00 |
| Stskeeps | kimmoli: generally if you start having shutdowns or reboots, contact care | 08:00 |
| kimmoli | i will make barricades on ruoholahti | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | why barricades.. and not protest signs? | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:01 |
| kimmoli | i dont believe in signs | 08:01 |
| Stskeeps | ok, let me rephrase | 08:02 |
| Stskeeps | signs that are factually huge OLED screens | 08:02 |
| kimmoli | hmm.. i have somewhere almost 2m long moving led display... | 08:02 |
| * faenil joins and notices a strange monday excitement, too much backlog :D | 08:03 | |
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| w00t | fawzi: we're just all excited you're here | 08:03 |
| kimmoli | äh, cant get samba to work at office domains .. | 08:03 |
| tachikoma | http://jollamoralstandards.blogspot.de/p/blog-page_25.html <- this guy has a problem.... | 08:03 |
| stephg | \o/ | 08:03 |
| faenil | fail w00t | 08:03 |
| ballock | that's actually a special kind of troll, quite popular here in Poland | 08:04 |
| tachikoma | oh, it is? | 08:04 |
| tachikoma | wow | 08:04 |
| faenil | fawzi, I'm sorry for w00t, the guy can't behave :) | 08:04 |
| Stskeeps | i think this is a sad case, all that really needs to be said about it has been said, there's more important things in life.. | 08:04 |
| tachikoma | I wasted some time now reading his stuff and still my head is shaking | 08:05 |
| ballock | It's a little bit like don kichot, which fights fiercely but the target is not the best one. | 08:05 |
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| tachikoma | sorry Stskeeps, i just saw it first time today, won;t waste more time on it, but it is scary I have to say | 08:06 |
| tachikoma | ballock: yeahh, that is a good expression i think | 08:06 |
| kimmoli | as he has said himself already in dec'13, he should get some help | 08:06 |
| nahkiss | what was that guys problem anyway, like why is he doing all this | 08:06 |
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| tachikoma | the effort he puts into it is amazing | 08:06 |
| nahkiss | what started this all on his part | 08:06 |
| kimmoli | i'm only interested what is that famous postcard ? | 08:06 |
| tachikoma | nahkiss: From what I gather hea was treated not teh way he expected it in the 'community' but I did not read every little detail | 08:07 |
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| tachikoma | I just go wtf all the time looking at that page | 08:07 |
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| lbt | tachikoma: it has the same compulsive attraction as a soap opera. Sadly some things resonated in his head and we all know how resonance turns out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs ... please note the commentary: "No one was injured in the whole affair but a small dog in the car was frightened" | 08:20 |
| kimmoli | why it is that when i have somethgin to look from journal, it is volatile | 08:20 |
| lbt | kimmoli: it can be made persistent but it then uses disk space | 08:20 |
| kimmoli | i know.... | 08:20 |
| kimmoli | it is that it drops to volatile when updating | 08:21 |
| lbt | oh, I see what you mean | 08:21 |
| lbt | :) | 08:21 |
| lbt | yeah ... murphy's law basically | 08:21 |
| kimmoli | and my memory is volatile to change it back to persistent | 08:21 |
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| kimmoli | ah, clock is 61453 | 08:25 |
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| tachikoma | lbt: I feel a very strong urge to tell this guy 'get a life' ;) | 08:31 |
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| north | Hi, (I am back after sometime) so when can devs expect the source code to be hosted in a single place ? Github maybe ? | 08:44 |
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| Stskeeps | north: we're merging into merproject.org, git.merproject.org | 08:44 |
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| SK_work | north: source code of what ? | 08:52 |
| SK_work | don't think this can happen | 08:52 |
| SK_work | Mer is a rather independant project | 08:52 |
| SK_work | so they host their code | 08:52 |
| deztructor | kimmoli: journal config file was intentionally made a part of package (by maintainer) o overwrite potentially destructive changes done by user | 08:52 |
| deztructor | kimmoli: ask plundstr for details | 08:53 |
| north | SK_work: It would be easy if the whole project is hosted in a single place, rather than bits and pieces here and there :) | 08:53 |
| SK_work | north: don't know | 08:53 |
| tachikoma | welcome to open source systems ;) | 08:53 |
| SK_work | IMO github is not the perfect place | 08:53 |
| SK_work | what if github crashes ? | 08:53 |
| SK_work | merproject's gitlab sound good (with mirror on github) | 08:54 |
| faenil | north, I think it's okay until it's 2 places, isn't it | 08:54 |
| north | Cyanogenmod hosts its code on Github, it never crashed afaik | 08:54 |
| faenil | very distinct places | 08:54 |
| plundstr | kimmoli: journal config file bug has been fixed. It is now marked as %config. In upcoming update it will get overwritten because systemd version changes | 08:54 |
| SK_work | north: not about crash | 08:54 |
| tachikoma | github was down quite often lately | 08:54 |
| faenil | yeah | 08:54 |
| tachikoma | not crashed - but unreachable | 08:54 |
| north | Yes | 08:54 |
| tachikoma | which can be pita | 08:55 |
| north | but one project in two places ? imagine I have to clone two projects separately to build one image | 08:55 |
| kimmoli | plundstr: ik | 08:55 |
| tachikoma | but I honestly have no real opinion on the hosting topic, just my experience with github | 08:55 |
| tachikoma | north: oh, you talks about a single project, not about sailfishos | 08:55 |
| kimmoli | deztructor: plundstr thank you for info. | 08:55 |
| north | 2 is also a hurdle when it comes to big projects IMO, | 08:56 |
| tachikoma | missunderstood you | 08:56 |
| ballock | Hey, people: it's Linux. There's so many components inside it that you can't make all of the mainainers use on the(R) single hosted place | 08:56 |
| tachikoma | ballock: thats my point. upstream alwasy is spread over the planet | 08:56 |
| ballock | See Debian/Ubuntu/Redhat/Fedora: the code repos are all over the place | 08:56 |
| ballock | yet, the binary packages are always accompanied by source packages hosted with them. | 08:57 |
| ballock | I did not see the repositories in Jolla, they might have sources there too, | 08:57 |
| ballock | would mean they *are* already hosted in a signle place. | 08:57 |
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| Stskeeps | they're basically pointers to git repos | 08:57 |
| faenil | north, what's the problem in having repos which point to 2 different domains | 08:58 |
| faenil | north, in CM you still clone 100 repos from github | 08:58 |
| ballock | Stskeeps: no srpms there? | 08:58 |
| faenil | what's the diff if it's 80 github and 20 gitlab | 08:58 |
| faenil | you still have to clone 100 repos | 08:58 |
| tachikoma | what is the point of srpms anyway .... | 08:58 |
| Stskeeps | ballock: no srpms, they're dynamically generated based on the git repos | 08:58 |
| ballock | Stskeeps: that's wrong. | 08:59 |
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| ballock | I mean, there's no problem with generating them, but that should generate an srpm too. | 08:59 |
| Stskeeps | okay, let me rephrase | 08:59 |
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| tachikoma | maybe a stupid question - but is jolla planing on making paid apps available in their store? | 09:05 |
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| Acce | yes they are, but no info when | 09:06 |
| tachikoma | I ask as my impression was back with the n900 - that failing to do so in a timely matter with the ovi store was one of the major problems fot the n900 to become attractive for mainstream users | 09:07 |
| tachikoma | I know, jolla has android compatibility but still I think it's something not to be underestimated | 09:08 |
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| faenil | tachikoma, Acce in the last community meeting (it's weekly, please attend if you can! next one is tomorrow!!) it was said that it will be withing H2 2014 | 09:18 |
| faenil | you can ask iekku for more details iirc | 09:19 |
| Acce | Q2? | 09:19 |
| faenil | H2 | 09:19 |
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| Acce | What's H2? 2nd half? | 09:20 |
| iekku | yes | 09:20 |
| Acce | oh, ok, I remember reading somewhere that Q3, but didn't want to mention it in case it's just rumors | 09:20 |
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| Nicd- | Acce: H2 is the other half! | 09:21 |
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| artemma | @tachikoma Paid apps are planned for H2, but that is pretty much all info available. No word on which exactly biz models are to be supported (just paid, subscriptions, in-app purchases, free trials, paid upgrades) nor payment channels (credit cards, operator bills, whatever), no markets/countries | 09:22 |
| artemma | My guesstimate is that jolla guys only started looking at it and for now are just thinking about getting "something most simple to do" out and maybe improve later | 09:23 |
| SK_work | artemma: I guess it will just be about payments | 09:23 |
| SK_work | artemma: exactly | 09:23 |
| north | So from my understanding till now this is the architecture of Sailfish OS/Nemo LinuxKernel(arm) -> Mer -> lipstick/sailfish's propreitary UI ? | 09:24 |
| Nicd- | I wonder how the Finnish law works in that regard... as in if I need to fill in all sorts of paperwork to sell my app for 1 € on the store | 09:24 |
| Nicd- | north: Sailfish also has some Nemo middleware | 09:24 |
| artemma | Looking at what Tizen with zero phones shipped was able to do with throwing money at developers it of course makes me sad that Jolla started thinking about dev money now only https://developer.tizen.org/contests/tizen-app-challenge | 09:24 |
| north | I forgot the libhybris for HAL and is the kernel vanilla ? | 09:24 |
| SK_work | artemma: eh | 09:24 |
| SK_work | artemma: Tizen = Samsung | 09:25 |
| Nicd- | I've understood it's Linux kernel + Mer + Nemo MW + Sailfish UI and apps | 09:25 |
| SK_work | = Money +++++ | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: the app challenge restarted several times, didn't it? | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | (AFAIK) | 09:25 |
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| artemma | Stskeeps: I was following a little, didn;t seem to be restared | 09:25 |
| artemma | restarted* | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | at least there was massive problems initially | 09:25 |
| Stskeeps | may finally have gotten solved now | 09:25 |
| artemma | there were massive problems with Tizen itself :) | 09:25 |
| artemma | and I still doubt it will be a big bet for samsung (after the recent alliance with Google) | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | 'let's launch it in russia' does sound rather .. fun | 09:26 |
| Stskeeps | (personal opinion) | 09:26 |
| artemma | it did serve as a good tool for making the google alliance though I think | 09:26 |
| artemma | IMHO they just release it because it's sorta ready eventually. Plus maybe for accessories/wearables | 09:27 |
| artemma | no need for Tizen after G agreement anymore | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | recouping investment? | 09:27 |
| Stskeeps | https://twitter.com/TizenFrank fwiw | 09:27 |
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| artemma | However, IMHO that only makes it only more amazing what a simple app challenge was able to achieve. I doubt that devs were seriously thinking abt making normal good sales with the apps | 09:28 |
| artemma | there weren't even much money involved | 09:28 |
| Stskeeps | that said, i do think 'tizen on wearables' was a smart move | 09:29 |
| Stskeeps | despite the fact they went out and osborned it quickly after by stating they'll use android wear, being very wishywashy about commitment to tizen | 09:29 |
| artemma | it's about G agreement again me thinks | 09:30 |
| artemma | Plus rumors tell tizen had quite serious quality issues | 09:30 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, do you have the link to your packages overview handy? north can see a lot from that | 09:32 |
| Stskeeps | http://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/niceview.png ? | 09:33 |
| faenil | north, ^ | 09:33 |
| north | yep | 09:34 |
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| north | gotcha | 09:34 |
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| SK_work | artemma: SailfishOS too ;) | 09:36 |
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| SK_work | (quality issues) | 09:37 |
| faenil | north, mw is Nemo there (stuff you find on github), core is Mer, and non-oss is Jolla stuff | 09:37 |
| faenil | quite well separate in the picture | 09:37 |
| artemma | yeah.. me got tired wasting 5 min for reconnecting to network out of 15min walk to metro :( | 09:37 |
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| Stskeeps | when have you last seen a mobile os without quality issues? | 09:37 |
| artemma | SW is complex nowadays, issues happen indeed | 09:38 |
| artemma | that said standards are higher nowadays | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, @$@$@ connman | 09:38 |
| north | Yea, I am looking at the connectivity stuff, no ntwork manager ? connman ? | 09:38 |
| north | :p | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | connman | 09:38 |
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| SK_work | Stskeeps: WP did managed pretty | 09:39 |
| SK_work | well | 09:39 |
| artemma | it's more about what you focus on. Like you know famous case when Apple did not focus on MMS not needed for US users. And did focus on stuff important for them, such as simple easy web browsing and chatting | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: lumia 800 was atrocious in that regard.. my wife and my sister in law managed to really screw it up | 09:39 |
| Stskeeps | of course, WP got better | 09:39 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: I never screwed WP that badly | 09:39 |
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| SK_work | even if I have the perfect tester (GF) | 09:39 |
| SK_work | who can screw pretty much any OS | 09:40 |
| Stskeeps | they managed to get it into such a bad state that you had to go for emergency reflashing | 09:40 |
| VDVsx | SK_work, new windows phones suffer from sudden reboots, like some other devices :P | 09:40 |
| VDVsx | i.e new lumias | 09:40 |
| SK_work | VDVsx: really ? | 09:40 |
| SK_work | :O | 09:40 |
| SK_work | :( | 09:40 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: wooow :O | 09:40 |
| SK_work | right | 09:40 |
| artemma | I am not that much sad about Jolla qulity level - it's okayish. I am more sad about what Jolla seems to focus on: landscape and universal hardware adaptations and MMS instead of network reliability and developer friendliness | 09:40 |
| artemma | and browser that is.. quite sad compared to both ios and android | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: well, hardware adaptations is simple -- it's something you need to keep on doing, else you can't do next devices, evaluate, etc.. it's a typical activity but we're using it in a different way | 09:41 |
| Stskeeps | MMS may simply be customer requirements | 09:41 |
| * lbt thinks MMS was "seriously, you want MMS?" | 09:42 | |
| artemma | Stskeeps: you nailed it! I can't see why Jolla focuses so much on the next devices instead of me :) | 09:42 |
| faenil | artemma, quite, quite sad :( | 09:42 |
| artemma | seriously though I understand that Sailfish OS on Android can be a serious big bet for Jolla | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: let me show you a graph of purchaseable value of a device over time.. | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:43 |
| SK_work | artemma: the fact that network is worked hard | 09:43 |
| artemma | well, then I hope it plays well and gives Jolla time and money to focus on mee too one day | 09:43 |
| SK_work | but it's just hard to make it work | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | also, any work that goes into let's say, sailfish for android devices, helps solve issues that may be shown harder on more non-complete hw adaptations | 09:43 |
| Stskeeps | +easier | 09:43 |
| faenil | SK_work, 1, or 2 people on network? :P | 09:43 |
| faenil | 1 full time + 1 in emergency or something? :D | 09:44 |
| faenil | Stskeeps, +1 | 09:44 |
| artemma | And again you nail it: I am usually way more annoyed by inconsistent UX than by HW adaptation missing. But again I don't know about the Jolla's market bets :) | 09:44 |
| SK_work | faenil: tell me, who knows connman :P | 09:44 |
| faenil | SK_work, if you need to fix it, you learn, as simple as that | 09:44 |
| SK_work | faenil: /me go learn connman | 09:45 |
| SK_work | :P | 09:45 |
| * lpotter hides | 09:45 | |
| kimmoli | :) | 09:45 |
| * artemma thinks that looking at Sailfish OS it is clear designers play secondary role in the company. That is not necessarily bad for a new phone startup though | 09:45 | |
| SK_work | well, honestly, I don't know, it doesn't sound THAT easy | 09:45 |
| lbt | artemma: ? | 09:45 |
| lbt | you mean UI designers? | 09:45 |
| * faenil caresses lpotter..."it's all right lorn, everything will be alright" | 09:45 | |
| * lpotter shivers in the dark corner | 09:46 | |
| faenil | :D | 09:46 |
| * phdeswer is sometimes afraid connman will turn lpotter in a madman | 09:46 | |
| artemma | lbt: yes. Sailfish level of inconsistency keeps me crazy. 6 month after starting to use it and being a power user, I still have to consiously think which gesture to make where and I am often trapped in ambeinces/launcher | 09:46 |
| * lbt hugs lpotter ... "there, there. It'll be alright..." | 09:46 | |
| * lpotter mumbles incoherently | 09:46 | |
| lbt | :) | 09:47 |
| lbt | artemma: interesting | 09:47 |
| tachikoma | faenil: thanks for the head up bout community meeting - I come from a 3 month parental leave where i basically disconnected from the internet completely, so I'm a little bit out of sync with stuff | 09:47 |
| stephg | looks like connman slapped lpotter back... | 09:47 |
| faenil | tachikoma, I see :) congrats! | 09:47 |
| faenil | what I meant is, the poor lorn is losing is life on connman...can Jolla please assign 5 people to connman only?? | 09:47 |
| faenil | PLEEEEEEEEEASE :P | 09:48 |
| SK_work | artemma: interesting, as I'm the total opposite | 09:48 |
| lbt | artemma: I'm not a UI guy so it's hard for me to explain the rationale for stuff - but as a mere user I personally don't have that issue | 09:48 |
| * lpotter puts on his ConnMan Super Hero constume | 09:48 | |
| faenil | ahaha | 09:48 |
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| SK_work | :D | 09:48 |
| tachikoma | lpotter: nice to meet you, thanks for the stuff you do ;) | 09:48 |
| lpotter | thanks. I try | 09:48 |
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| lbt | faenil: there were 6 people ... someone did a merge and we now have lpotter ... that's each persons initial | 09:49 |
| faenil | lol | 09:49 |
| lpotter | although I try hard not to touch connman | 09:49 |
| * lpotter wonders how many people meego had on connectivity | 09:49 | |
| faenil | lpotter, oh btw is there any news about sailfish not disconnecting my 3g just because there's a wifi with the same name as mine, and it tries to connect to it? | 09:50 |
| SK_work | faenil: well, trying to connect to a wifi sounds good | 09:51 |
| SK_work | but disconnecting 3G at the same time don't sound good | 09:51 |
| stephg | faenil: what's it supposed to be, psychic? ;) | 09:51 |
| lpotter | connman has problems with AP's with same name+encryption | 09:51 |
| faenil | maybe I wasn't clear | 09:51 |
| faenil | the wifi it's trying to connect is *not* mine | 09:51 |
| faenil | it only has the same name | 09:51 |
| faenil | and connman thinks that's enough to start a relentless battle with it | 09:52 |
| lpotter | faenil: perhaps if we ever get connman update stable that might help | 09:52 |
| faenil | lpotter, oh | 09:52 |
| lpotter | currently, connman doesn;t handle autoconnections, connectionagent does | 09:52 |
| faenil | okay | 09:52 |
| tachikoma | faenil: sounds awesome - especially if the phone wins the battle ;) | 09:52 |
| faenil | can't you store something like, I don't know, AP MAC? | 09:52 |
| lpotter | no. connman knows nothing about the AP mac... | 09:53 |
| faenil | tachikoma, phone always loses :( | 09:53 |
| tachikoma | damned | 09:53 |
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| faenil | lpotter, oh really :/ | 09:53 |
| tachikoma | you need a fix then - not for connecting to the right ZP - but for winning that battle | 09:53 |
| lpotter | thats problemmatic, with same name AP's with different mac's | 09:53 |
| artemma | BTW, one non-connman network observation after New York trip: Jolla seems not to know how to handle most of New York public network authentication requests | 09:53 |
| faenil | lpotter, mm? | 09:54 |
| artemma | I mean it doesn't show the net login page | 09:54 |
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| SK_work | faenil: think eduroam | 09:54 |
| SK_work | (even if it's not supported by the jolla) | 09:54 |
| lpotter | artemma: ya, hotspots is something I haven't had time to spend time and fix | 09:54 |
| SK_work | eduroam is a network of hotspot | 09:54 |
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| artemma | it usually works in Europe, even better than needed (once I had 42 tabs with login requests starting one after another before I managed to kill wifi), but US seems to fancy some different standard | 09:54 |
| faenil | SK_work, ah I see | 09:54 |
| faenil | SK_work, yeah got it at uni as well | 09:55 |
| SK_work | faenil: it's common to connect to same AP name | 09:55 |
| SK_work | the N9 does thi | 09:55 |
| SK_work | android does this | 09:55 |
| SK_work | etc. | 09:55 |
| lpotter | eduroam uses enterprise, which connman has usablility issues with | 09:55 |
| faenil | srsly...I never noticed bb10 giving issues with this, tbh | 09:55 |
| north | just asking, with Sailfish OSes motive being open source ? haven't you guys considered applying for GSoC ? | 09:56 |
| faenil | lpotter, yeah he was just saying that there's a usecase to connecting to same AP names but different mac | 09:56 |
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| Stskeeps | north: i think we fall into an area where we wouldn't be accepted as an organization | 09:56 |
| north | um, why ? | 09:56 |
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| SK_work | north: because they are a company | 09:57 |
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| north | but Nemo is not a company | 09:57 |
| north | I guess | 09:57 |
| north | Moodle is a company in that case | 09:57 |
| SK_work | faenil: ^ you should be a GSOC mentor | 09:58 |
| faenil | lol | 09:58 |
| tachikoma | mh, here at work i do have also a bunch of APs with the same name - might explain occassional connection issues when i walked around | 09:59 |
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| artemma | BTW, guys, do you know if some network improvements are expected to be a part of June update? Or are these for some later time? | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | wasn't there some notes already indicated? | 10:05 |
| artemma | I don't think I noticed network fixes there | 10:06 |
| north | Down the line this project is somewhere related to Intel, so my question is why doesn't Intel support projects like this on a large scale ? | 10:06 |
| artemma | no browser performance issues (did notice multiple tabs though) | 10:06 |
| Stskeeps | north: they are involved in tizen | 10:07 |
| north | I mean for the co-existence of multiple OS in the market. People can readily chose which OS they want | 10:07 |
| north | also not to forget the problem with OEMs or rather single OEM Qualcomm | 10:07 |
| north | :p | 10:07 |
| artemma | If this coming Samsung Z uses Android hardware (it's quite typical for Samsung to use nearly same HW for multiple OS), it could be the first device where you could run Android, Tizen and Sailfish. And maybe Windows Phone too :) | 10:08 |
| Stskeeps | i have doubts on that | 10:09 |
| north | swapping OS or multi OS ? | 10:09 |
| artemma | sure, you might not be able to replace OS yourself, but a technical guy with access keys working inside Samsung might be able to do it | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | my bet is that it's a qualcomm device, with continued x11 work from meego times | 10:09 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: so X11 drivers ? | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see if i'm wrong, but, that's my bet | 10:11 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: because X11 drivers would be slightly overkill IMO | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: well | 10:11 |
| SK_work | but well, Samsung is samsung, and they can force quelcomm to write x11 drivers | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | tizen dev devices were x11, too.. | 10:12 |
| SK_work | really ? didn't knew | 10:12 |
| kimmoli | ooo, i just got sailfish on my ipad | 10:12 |
| SK_work | kimmoli: stop kidding | 10:12 |
| tachikoma | you put a screenshot on it as background? | 10:13 |
| kimmoli | no, i did put sailfish on my ipad | 10:13 |
| kimmoli | look https://app.younited.com/?shareObject=fc36cdb7-f7bf-b928-316a-5f8abed358f4 | 10:13 |
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| north | hahaha | 10:14 |
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| VDVsx | kimmoli, was the fish angry ? ipad looks a bit destroyed :D | 10:20 |
| kimmoli | what, it has just a small scratch, but thats just cosmeti, it works. (But it's safer to use with stylus) | 10:21 |
| kimmoli | actually i tried to get sailfish in the ipad... | 10:24 |
| iekku | kimmoli, :D | 10:30 |
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| leszek | hi | 10:56 |
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| kaltsi | kimmoli: sexy ipad cover.. almost looks like it's broken | 11:01 |
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| * artemma watched Bogdan Vatra's webinar lately and is excited to use same Qt code for both Sailfish and Android | 11:42 | |
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| tachikoma | artemma: I tried that and failed | 11:50 |
| tachikoma | mainly i failed with the android devel system i think ... | 11:50 |
| artemma | it's a pity. I am thinking about switching more to Android, but would like to use Qt there | 11:51 |
| artemma | hmm, actually I remember running Qt helloWorlds on both Android and iOS | 11:51 |
| tachikoma | no, android and me - we are not compatible | 11:51 |
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| * artemma was thinking about iOS more, but level of Qt Android support seems to be way higher. Almost usable | 11:52 | |
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| scharel_ | I never believed this is gonna happen: http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/2/5771302/samsung-hedges-android-bet-with-first-tizen-phone | 12:05 |
| javispedro | hm | 12:07 |
| javispedro | also galaxy gear 1 updated to tizen | 12:07 |
| * javispedro ponders if it may be the case they're more serious about tizen.... probably not. | 12:07 | |
| scharel_ | yes and tv. but i thaught they canceled it for phones | 12:08 |
| SK_work | 2.3GHz quad-core processor | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | it's amazing what you need to do, to make mobile X11 perform. | 12:09 |
| javispedro | and engadget calls it "fairly pedestrian specs" | 12:09 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: don't you think that Tizen can scale down a bit ? | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm being unfair, fwiw) | 12:09 |
| SK_work | javispedro: well, maybe not processor, but screen, camera etc are pretty standard | 12:10 |
| javispedro | (yes you are =) ) | 12:10 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: (just because you prefer wayland :D ?) | 12:10 |
| artemma | Tizen is just a corporate clone of Jolla :) | 12:10 |
| artemma | well, used to be before agreement with google | 12:10 |
| javispedro | 5'' it's now "mini" | 12:10 |
| SK_work | leather case is nice | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: well, tizen came before jolla | 12:11 |
| scharel_ | I hope it doesn't steal too many customers from jolla | 12:11 |
| SK_work | scharel_: does Jolla customers like Android-lookalikes ? | 12:11 |
| artemma | corporate behemots are lower and Sammy never was very great about SW quality | 12:11 |
| artemma | slower* | 12:11 |
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| tachikoma | Stskeeps: n900 did have x11, right? it did perform considerably well for the 600 mhz it ran on | 12:11 |
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| Stskeeps | yes, i'm being intentionally unfair | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | n900 was never, ever, 60fps though | 12:12 |
| * artemma remembers stunning 15-20fps on N900 when scrolling menu shortcuts :) | 12:12 | |
| pp | they did spend a lot of effort on it too :-) | 12:12 |
| fzk | yeah, it was pretty slow when having much processes running | 12:12 |
| artemma | Jolla at least looks way more like 30-40fps. That is except for sudden shuttering in the middle :) | 12:13 |
| pp | and probably had pretty good relations with the gfx chip vendor | 12:13 |
| scharel_ | SK_work_ I fear that some linux fans that don't know sailfish will buy a Tizen device instead just because Samsung is a big player | 12:13 |
| SK_work | Jolla is rather OK performance wise, except shutters :( | 12:13 |
| SK_work | unlike SFOS, Tizen is 100% OSS | 12:14 |
| SK_work | scharel_: let's see | 12:14 |
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| tachikoma | tizen is 100% oss - really? | 12:14 |
| SK_work | (maybe not Sammy's UI though) | 12:14 |
| tachikoma | what about the hw drivers | 12:14 |
| artemma | I am teaching ppl abt coding for sailfish sometimes (not much, but still), I always ask why they use Jolla. Number one argument is always open source image | 12:14 |
| artemma | apparently Jolla still manages to look like open source dream | 12:15 |
| artemma | regardless of whether it's true | 12:15 |
| tachikoma | i simply use jolla becasue i hate everything else ;) | 12:15 |
| SK_work | artemma: Jolla might not be OSS | 12:15 |
| SK_work | tachikoma: HW drivers aside :) | 12:15 |
| SK_work | they are Open IMO | 12:15 |
| SK_work | like Stskeeps on IRC | 12:15 |
| tachikoma | it's like the classic quote on the mutt homepage | 12:15 |
| SK_work | available | 12:15 |
| artemma | SK_work: jolla's *image* is open source ;) | 12:15 |
| tachikoma | 'every mobile phone sucks - jolla just sucks less' | 12:16 |
| SK_work | and you can dig around inside QML files,a nd play with patchmanager | 12:16 |
| javispedro | oh, fk_lx's been banned again, I guess that's the reason he didn't jump in yet =) | 12:16 |
| SK_work | artemma: it's not 100% OSS, but quite OSS friendly | 12:16 |
| tachikoma | lol | 12:16 |
| SK_work | artemma: yeah, I know | 12:16 |
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| SK_work | even if it's not 100% OSS, it's friendly | 12:16 |
| SK_work | but the fact is that it's rather true when applied | 12:16 |
| * artemma uses Jolla for a single reason: It is the only mobile platform for my precious Qt and QML coding. The day it's native enough on iOS, I move to iOS (not likely to happen ever though) | 12:16 | |
| tachikoma | artemma: that is my second reason to use it. | 12:17 |
| SK_work | artemma: first reason for me too | 12:17 |
| tachikoma | I want a jolla tablet - is there anything hackable already? | 12:17 |
| SK_work | <3 Qt QML | 12:17 |
| SK_work | tachikoma: reminds me of porting the SFOS SDK X11 on an iconia tab :) | 12:17 |
| fzk | i would like that toot tachikoma | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | SK_work: we should really make sailfish run with wayland on it.. didn't we get that working? | 12:18 |
| fzk | ipad has good battery life, one month according to apple, if kept suspended lol | 12:18 |
| SK_work | second reason for Jolla is that it's nice to use (when not buggy) | 12:18 |
| SK_work | Stskeeps: I got bored of this tablet. | 12:18 |
| SK_work | it's really crappy :( | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | nod | 12:18 |
| tachikoma | I'll buy whatever tablet jolla will run on without too many issues | 12:18 |
| SK_work | maybe some day | 12:18 |
| javispedro | aren't the iconia tabs intel? | 12:18 |
| SK_work | tachikoma: IMO, nexuses | 12:18 |
| tachikoma | SK_work: yeah, need to confirm first, but will need one soon anyway for my kids | 12:19 |
| Nicd- | javispedro: sailfish runs on x86 too | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: sure, but small detail is that we publish for x86/i486 too | 12:19 |
| javispedro | actually, I was mentioning it because I suspect it would be trivial then | 12:19 |
| * artemma doubts sailfishos is great for large tablets. IMHO main Sailfish UX benefit is that it provides you with more screen space at a cost of speed of interaction. And tablets.. they have enough screen space already | 12:19 | |
| tachikoma | got them this and need bluetooth 4.0 android devices for them to be able to visually program them: https://www.play-i.com/ | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | artemma: yeah, it's not a tablet ui | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | but | 12:20 |
| SK_work | artemma: it can be interesting to tinker with | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | with some mods | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | it could be very nice | 12:20 |
| * artemma would think sailfish actually makes way more sense for smaller devices. Especially for single hand operational sizes. Then extra screen space for not having any toobars would be real useful | 12:20 | |
| SK_work | artemma: +1 | 12:21 |
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| artemma | Say at iPhone screen size killing top and bottom toolbars would add a lot of screen space. And pulley menu makes most sense when single hand used | 12:21 |
| javispedro | tachikoma: why do they advertise those things are for children, when it's _clear_ it's actually targeted towards geeky parents | 12:21 |
| tachikoma | i still would prefer using it on a tablet to android | 12:21 |
| tachikoma | because i and android - we do not like each other | 12:22 |
| artemma | for this much extra screen space you could suffer the need for slow pull and targeting menu item | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | not to mention needing landscape launcher | 12:22 |
| tachikoma | javispedro: just - don;t tell my wife ... Ok? ;) | 12:22 |
| tachikoma | she did not get that yet | 12:22 |
| SK_work | artemma: IMO an android tablet can benefit from some swipe to back gestures | 12:23 |
| SK_work | and actually, gestures are good to not move your hand around the 4 corners of the tablet | 12:23 |
| SK_work | don't know | 12:23 |
| SK_work | could be good | 12:23 |
| tachikoma | I personally don;t care about the ui - i care about the stuff below | 12:23 |
| SK_work | tachikoma: I care about both :) | 12:24 |
| artemma | Sure some gestures are useful for mobile OS. I still think Jolla went overboard with them | 12:24 |
| artemma | but then again maybe it's only me who still can | 12:24 |
| javispedro | tachikoma: btw jolla actually does speak bluetooth4 | 12:24 |
| javispedro | tachikoma: so scratch that nexus | 12:24 |
| artemma | 't clearly distinguish between swipe from the edge and swipe from the middle | 12:24 |
| tachikoma | javispedro: yes, i know, but for my kids the phone is too small to develop robot programs with the graphical interface | 12:25 |
| tachikoma | I'm looking for something 10''ish | 12:25 |
| javispedro | =) | 12:25 |
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| fzk | tachikoma: give them an avr processor, a computer to build the programs on and a pararellcable to burn it in ;) | 12:26 |
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| tachikoma | fzk: guess what we did the last 3 months ;) | 12:27 |
| tachikoma | but i did that on the arduino platform | 12:27 |
| tachikoma | so, no parallel cable | 12:27 |
| fzk | arduino is nice with the bootloader | 12:27 |
| tachikoma | yes | 12:27 |
| tachikoma | idiot proof | 12:28 |
| tachikoma | the right thing for me :) | 12:28 |
| fzk | makes it very easy to work with | 12:28 |
| tachikoma | for kids that is an important criteria | 12:28 |
| tachikoma | they loose interest too quickly | 12:28 |
| tachikoma | you need to have the ws2812 up and rainbowing wqithing a very small timeframe ;) | 12:28 |
| fzk | im gonna lurk my kids into playing with technics lego first | 12:29 |
| tachikoma | hehe, i have all the technics lego from my childhood and they just love that already | 12:29 |
| fzk | then when they can handle a computation device, they should learn to code | 12:30 |
| fzk | its pretty handy in projects | 12:30 |
| Nicd- | just give them an FPGA, to hell with training wheels ;) | 12:30 |
| tachikoma | I have no such 'masterplan', they should just play with whatever they are interested in. | 12:30 |
| tachikoma | rotfl | 12:30 |
| fzk | yeah, "program these chipsets and install your windows on it damnit!" | 12:30 |
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| * javispedro teaches verilog to 16-18 year olds during summers | 12:31 | |
| tachikoma | but i stareted to let them disassemble laptops when they were 2 years old | 12:31 |
| tachikoma | such joy | 12:31 |
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| fzk | lol | 12:31 |
| fzk | did they eat the internals? | 12:31 |
| tachikoma | lucky for me i have access to non ending amount of broken laptop hardawre :) | 12:31 |
| tachikoma | nope, then connected the ground of the boards we scavenged to a battery and tried to make the leds on them lighten up | 12:32 |
| tachikoma | well, i connected the ground and then they ran power throu the board by randomly connecting to the solderpoints | 12:32 |
| Nicd- | 230 V? | 12:32 |
| scharel_ | sounds like lucky childhood :D | 12:33 |
| tachikoma | not quite | 12:33 |
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| tachikoma | 2V | 12:33 |
| fzk | 10 000V 1 000A | 12:33 |
| fzk | :D | 12:33 |
| tachikoma | yeah - i turned my laptop into a single solderpoint | 12:34 |
| javispedro | this guy in slashdot saying he prefers tizen vs maemo/meego because it's .deb =) | 12:34 |
| scharel_ | then you don't even need leds to get some light | 12:34 |
| fzk | wasnt maemo debian based? | 12:35 |
| tachikoma | scharel_: yeah, but it does not lighten the room for long - unless the plastic fire counts | 12:35 |
| phdeswer | javispedro: is tizen really using deb? Nokia switched to rpm in meego because of Intel... | 12:35 |
| tachikoma | fzk: it was and still is | 12:35 |
| javispedro | exactly. | 12:35 |
| javispedro | tizen is rpm! | 12:35 |
| tachikoma | why is the packaging format that important? | 12:35 |
| scharel_ | what framework is tizen using? | 12:36 |
| * SpeedEvil finds it really odd that people care about packaging. | 12:36 | |
| phdeswer | tachikoma: reliability and ease of packaging... | 12:36 |
| pp | N9 was actually deb :-) | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | It's packaging. You rip it off and throw it away | 12:36 |
| w00t | SpeedEvil: some people have too much time on their hands :) | 12:36 |
| leszek | scharel_: I guess its efl | 12:36 |
| javispedro | I can actually get why would people wnat to share packaging with whatever they use on the desktop | 12:36 |
| tachikoma | phdeswer: and depending on who i ask both are more relaibale and easy to package ;) | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I do wonder if these people have loving collections of cardboard box. | 12:36 |
| SpeedEvil | es | 12:37 |
| fzk | potato or potatoe? | 12:37 |
| phdeswer | I don't really care, but I have had waaaay less issues with deb than rpm. And I found making deb packages easier. But all depends on personal preference and experience. | 12:37 |
| javispedro | think geeky user wanting to package e.g. nfs-utils | 12:37 |
| tachikoma | scharel_: rotfl | 12:37 |
| pp | there's also always fpm :-) | 12:37 |
| javispedro | copying whatever packaging their current distro uses is a benefit | 12:37 |
| tachikoma | what did slackware use again? | 12:37 |
| * javispedro has recently written a .yaml file for nfs-utils. the spectacles, they do MUCH! | 12:37 | |
| phdeswer | I guess Tizen uses rpm, so that people who do Android on Ubuntu have to switch ;) | 12:38 |
| fzk | phdeswer: deb is nice when the package index get corrupted | 12:38 |
| tachikoma | android on ubuntu sounds scary to me | 12:38 |
| phdeswer | fzk: never had that. rpm db corruption regularly. | 12:39 |
| tachikoma | *can't resist urge ... to ... post ...* | 12:39 |
| tachikoma | http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml | 12:39 |
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| phdeswer | tachikoma: If you want to do android development the instructions are to install and build on a specific version of Ubuntu | 12:39 |
| tachikoma | mh, i did try to set up an android development system some time ago but can;t recall that ubuntu was required for that | 12:41 |
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| javispedro | I want sailfish for gentoo. | 12:42 |
| * Stskeeps twitches | 12:43 | |
| javispedro | ok, my attempt at a trollish comment didn't work as expected. | 12:44 |
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| faenil | is the price drop published already? | 13:29 |
| faenil | is 389€ the new price? | 13:30 |
| javispedro | so much fuss for a 10eur price drop? | 13:31 |
| gabriel9|work | you can get drunk for 10eur | 13:31 |
| Nicd- | faenil: I thought it was already 389 | 13:31 |
| gabriel9|work | so it is nice :) | 13:31 |
| special | it's not announced yet | 13:31 |
| faenil | Nicd-, that's why I'm asking | 13:31 |
| faenil | special, thanks :) | 13:31 |
| Nicd- | why would they announce a price drop from 389 to 389? :P | 13:32 |
| faenil | Nicd-, ... I thought it was 399 on the website | 13:32 |
| faenil | didn't know it was 389 on jolla.com | 13:32 |
| tachikoma | Nicd-: it's a attention test | 13:32 |
| faenil | ahah | 13:32 |
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| north | Guys ! I am not much aware of Wearable tech, but does OS for Wearable teach include connection managers too ? | 13:58 |
| north | Because Samsung Gear 2 switched to Tizen | 13:58 |
| fzk | oh, they did? | 13:58 |
| fzk | wish it had gps :-) | 13:59 |
| Loris_ | They are even releasing a Tizen Smartphone, called Samsung Z | 14:00 |
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| north | but isn't Tizen non-opensource ? | 14:03 |
| north | I mean propreitary ? | 14:03 |
| SK_work | north: it is advertized as fully opened | 14:04 |
| SK_work | but maybe UI is not | 14:04 |
| north | Yes, according to Wikipedia, the UI is not licensed under open source licenses | 14:05 |
| north | btw, are you all from Finland ? | 14:05 |
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| Armadillo | no | 14:06 |
| SK_work | north: fr here :) | 14:06 |
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| faenil | north, "it" here :) | 14:13 |
| north | It as in Italy ? | 14:14 |
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| SK_work | faenil: I read it's here ? | 14:14 |
| SK_work | what's here ? :D | 14:14 |
| faenil | me! | 14:15 |
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| SK_work | :D | 14:18 |
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| north | Well, thanks for the information provided since morning. I am going AFK for few hours now :) | 14:23 |
| north | have fun | 14:23 |
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| special | Turski: mapplauncherd fix merged, but it won't be part of the next public update. Should be the one after that. | 14:44 |
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| kimmoli | Is there plans to open more "Silica" component API, like e.g. Compressor, CompressbleItem and Expander ? | 14:54 |
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| SK_work | kimmoli: topic for next meeting ? :) | 14:54 |
| rrondu | Hi | 14:55 |
| special | ..do those exist? | 14:55 |
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| javispedro | kimmoli: CompressableItem? is that scrolling feedback ala WindowsPhone? | 14:56 |
| b0bben | hey all | 14:56 |
| kimmoli | actually i just found them... | 14:56 |
| kimmoli | no, part of email composer | 14:56 |
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| b0bben | where can i find the source of the "Components" app that's shipped with the emulator | 14:56 |
| kimmoli | from the Sailfish\examples | 14:57 |
| kimmoli | comes with sdk installation | 14:57 |
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| b0bben | kimmoli: omg so stupid of me...thx! | 14:58 |
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| tbr | ha " | 15:15 |
| tbr | Definition: API is stable only if project is dead." | 15:15 |
| CissWit | thats a poor excuse for unstable APIs :) | 15:15 |
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| b0bben_ | could someone @ jolla please change the naming of this prop on DockedPanel: | 15:28 |
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| b0bben_ | visible : real | 15:29 |
| b0bben_ | This property holds the width or height of visible portion of a DockedPanel. | 15:29 |
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| M4rtinK | ouch | 15:30 |
| Turski | special: awesome, thanks | 15:33 |
| special | thanks for pushing me to pay attention to it :p | 15:33 |
| Turski | took only a bit over two months :)( | 15:34 |
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| special | yeah. github issues don't show up in front of me, and small fixes are too easy to ignore | 15:35 |
| Turski | ok, need to try to draw more attention next time | 15:36 |
| special | or bug us for some help on setting up the SDK to build those packages and fix bugs yourself ;) | 15:36 |
| Turski | yeah, that would be better | 15:38 |
| Turski | looks like i mentioned that posixly_correct problem first time in 8th of january here | 15:38 |
| Turski | special: also, looks like you was pinged on that topic back then | 15:39 |
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| rrondu | hey guys (and girls) | 15:41 |
| special | Turski: yeah.. I'm the maintainer of mapplauncherd, but it's just a side project to a bunch of other things | 15:41 |
| special | not enough people, not enough time :< | 15:41 |
| rrondu | I have a main qml page with a PageStack | 15:41 |
| rrondu | and i push a page to the pagestack | 15:42 |
| rrondu | this is hte page : http://pastebin.com/J4zTANQA | 15:42 |
| Turski | special: yeah, i understand that. anyway good to have it fixed now | 15:42 |
| rrondu | the* | 15:42 |
| SK_work | rrondu: yeah ? | 15:42 |
| rrondu | When I use the "onPositionChanged" event in that page, the pagestack kick in | 15:42 |
| rrondu | and grab the event for himself when I flick right | 15:43 |
| rrondu | and thus it is trying to go pop my page | 15:43 |
| SK_work | rrondu: yeah ? | 15:43 |
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| rrondu | is there a way to block the pagestack from processing the event ? | 15:43 |
| rrondu | please :-) | 15:43 |
| Turski | special: so i can edit my answer in TJC with "will be fixed in update 8"? | 15:43 |
| special | Turski: yes | 15:44 |
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| SK_work | rrondu: interesting | 15:47 |
| SK_work | a MouseArea shouldn't | 15:47 |
| rrondu | Yeah that's what I thought. This is weird | 15:47 |
| SK_work | hum | 15:48 |
| rrondu | the "propagateComposedEvents: false" and "mouse.accepted = true;" lines in the MouseArea are tests, it didn't work before so I tried putting them | 15:49 |
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| scharel_ | price of jolla is now 349€: http://shop.jolla.com/cat-jolla.html | 15:52 |
| rrondu | as long as the swipe is going left / up / down it works as expected | 15:53 |
| rrondu | but as soon as it goes right, the pageStack start poping the page | 15:53 |
| rrondu | nice | 15:53 |
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| lainwir3d | i'm lost on what to do :-( | 16:25 |
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| SK_work | lainwir3d: ??? | 16:28 |
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| lainwir3d | SK_work: concerning the mouseEvent getting stolen by PageStack, sorry I changed my nick :P | 16:33 |
| SK_work | :D | 16:33 |
| SK_work | lainwir3d: try MouseArea {z: 10000} | 16:33 |
| lainwir3d | hmmm | 16:34 |
| lainwir3d | doesn't help | 16:34 |
| lainwir3d | still the same problem | 16:35 |
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| lainwir3d | just checked the z values of the current page, the pagestack, and the mousearea. They are respectively at 0, 0, 10000 | 16:38 |
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| kimmoli | kaltsi: ping. Could not connect to MerSDK vm... what were the spells you wanted me to cast now? | 16:44 |
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| kaltsi | kimmoli: netstat in dos prompt | 16:50 |
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| kaltsi | try to see if there are lots of open connections to localhost or something... sorry I can't remember suitable options for netstat | 16:51 |
| kimmoli | now i was not able to ssh into it... | 16:51 |
| kaltsi | not even that? hmm | 16:51 |
| kimmoli | netstat didnt show any local connections | 16:51 |
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| kimmoli | i did restart it already after netstatting, now there is [::1]:nnn to my hostname | 16:52 |
| kaltsi | that's on windows side? | 16:52 |
| kimmoli | yes | 16:52 |
| kaltsi | hmm looks like ipv6 address.. | 16:52 |
| kimmoli | but i'm sure last time i could ssh into it... | 16:53 |
| kaltsi | well it was just something to check.. don't know what to expect | 16:53 |
| kimmoli | now it said ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host | 16:53 |
| kimmoli | ok, i will try again when this occurs next time | 16:53 |
| kaltsi | that might be some kind of a problem with the shared folders | 16:53 |
| kaltsi | if it can't read the ssh key via the shared folder | 16:54 |
| kaltsi | what would you say was the uptime for mersdk at that time? | 16:54 |
| kimmoli | öh, now it was about 1 hour | 16:55 |
| kimmoli | it has occured twice ain last 3 hours | 16:55 |
| kaltsi | ahh.. ok shouldn't be about that then either | 16:55 |
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| lainwir3d | SK: well that was easy... I just had to put "preventStealing: true" on my mousearea.... | 17:00 |
| lainwir3d | i spent hours on that problem | 17:00 |
| lainwir3d | it seems like it's pretty much mandatory on drag style events | 17:00 |
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| matrixx | any idea why my app can write files into QStandardPaths::GeneralDataLocation, but not into QStandardPaths::DataLocation? | 18:17 |
| matrixx | though I think it would be wiser to write to the latter one since my data is specific to my app | 18:17 |
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| kaltsi | have you created QStandardPaths::DataLocation? | 18:21 |
| matrixx | at least the path exists when I open the app | 18:21 |
| matrixx | and I have there one preinstalled file | 18:21 |
| kaltsi | how about its permissions? | 18:21 |
| matrixx | well, I asked the path with QStandardPaths::writableLocation so I assume it should be writable | 18:22 |
| matrixx | since it's my own apps storage, or am I assuming wrong? | 18:22 |
| kaltsi | Note: The storage location returned can be a directory that does not exist; i.e., it may need to be created by the system or the user. | 18:24 |
| kaltsi | just reading the docs.. I really don't know anything | 18:24 |
| matrixx | but it is created | 18:24 |
| kaltsi | but did you create with the correct rights? | 18:24 |
| matrixx | how can my app give itself write permissions? | 18:24 |
| kaltsi | just because it returns something doesn't mean it's correctly created | 18:25 |
| matrixx | well, I didn't create itmyself per se | 18:25 |
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| kaltsi | could you check? can you access the device with ssh or fingerterm | 18:25 |
| matrixx | my installer installs a file there and creates it | 18:25 |
| matrixx | I have it in INSTALLS in my pro | 18:25 |
| kaltsi | could you check, so we don't have to guess :) | 18:26 |
| matrixx | well it's obvious I don't have the permissions there | 18:26 |
| matrixx | QFileDevice::WriteUser returns false | 18:26 |
| kaltsi | hmm someone here must have solved this problem | 18:27 |
| matrixx | I guess QtCreator installs files with root permissions only by default | 18:27 |
| matrixx | but I don't know how to customize permissions for files and folders in INSTALLS | 18:28 |
| kaltsi | that directory should not be in the RPM | 18:28 |
| kaltsi | if you want to get the app into harbour | 18:28 |
| matrixx | so I should remove it from yaml under "Files:" | 18:29 |
| matrixx | ? | 18:29 |
| kaltsi | yes | 18:29 |
| kaltsi | you'll need to create the directory from your app | 18:29 |
| scharel | I used QStandardPaths::DataLocation in an app and created the folder during runtime: QString storagePath = QStandardPaths::writableLocation(QStandardPaths::DataLocation); QDir().mkpath(storagePath); | 18:29 |
| matrixx | how about that one preinstalled file? do I need to first install it under my app dir and then create the folder and move it there? | 18:30 |
| kaltsi | what kind of a file is it? | 18:31 |
| matrixx | an xml | 18:31 |
| kaltsi | you can't move it (running as user, installed as root) | 18:31 |
| matrixx | ah, right, but that means also I can't update the file at runtime? | 18:32 |
| matrixx | I want to rewrite some changes to it later | 18:32 |
| kaltsi | you might have to copy it from the /usr/share/appname/ to the datadir | 18:32 |
| matrixx | oh well, copy is ok too | 18:33 |
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| kaltsi | btw if you wanted it to be created with correct rights from the RPM, you can give %attr directive specifying the rights in the Files: section of yaml (or spec) | 18:34 |
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| kaltsi | just saying, but still it wouldn't get into harbour :) | 18:35 |
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| matrixx | thanks, I'm targeting harbour so it's not an option, but good to know anyway | 18:35 |
| matrixx | so I should sneak it under /usr/share/appname/ with my qml files and then copy to appropriate place | 18:36 |
| kaltsi | here are also some thoughts about that kind of data https://harbour.jolla.com/faq#2.5.0 | 18:36 |
| matrixx | sounds like a hack, but if none else will do :P | 18:36 |
| kaltsi | you can have any subdirs under /usr/share/appname .. you could have /usr/share/appname/data/ | 18:37 |
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| matrixx | kaltsi: thanks, that sounds like the way to go | 18:39 |
| kaltsi | if you haven't read the harbour faq, it's a good idea to browse through it.. you might catch something from there | 18:39 |
| matrixx | will do :) | 18:39 |
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| * tbr dons his devil's advocate hat | 19:23 | |
| Stskeeps | what's to be advocated? :P | 19:24 |
| tbr | Stskeeps: I presume tomorrows meeting has been cancelled? | 19:24 |
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| Stskeeps | hmmm, how so? | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm not being ignorant here, looking in my mailbox) | 19:25 |
| tbr | as I don't see an invitation nor agenda within that invitation | 19:25 |
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| netzvieh | tbr: sorry my fault | 19:25 |
| netzvieh | still in my outbox | 19:25 |
| tbr | netzvieh: no it's not, unless you suddenly are on jolla's payroll | 19:26 |
| netzvieh | tbr: I told cybette I'll write it | 19:26 |
| tbr | that changes things a bit | 19:26 |
| Aard | netzvieh: can I make you work for me as well? :) | 19:27 |
| tbr | .oO(bilder in meinem kopf) | 19:27 |
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| * Stskeeps should really have learnt german instead of french in highschool | 19:28 | |
| * tbr is slightly sorry for popping up and being a pain in the behind every time | 19:28 | |
| Stskeeps | i personally appreciate it | 19:29 |
| tbr | I do believe I have a valid point, but if people feel I'm being unreasonable and will STFU, forever | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | (and i guess professionally too, but i've just started a beer..) | 19:30 |
| tbr | :) | 19:30 |
| Yaniel | tbr: the malevolent part of me likes your point | 19:30 |
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| tbr | while we are at nasty topics. I've posted a letter today, kindly asking Jolla to deliver source code DVDs for each and every firmware release that I could track down went public | 19:31 |
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| tbr | As I guess that jope forgot that I asked for U5 and I wanted all of them anyway for public accessibility | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | ah good, now i have an excuse to back up those | 19:32 |
| tbr | given my newly found free time, I might even experiment with tracking changes and otherwise making those isos more accessible | 19:33 |
| phdeswer | Stskeeps: German should come easy to you as I manage to understand some Danish | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | phdeswer: yeah, it should, despite that, i once found myself unable to talk to a german taxi driver.. | 19:34 |
| Yaniel | it's generally easy to guess what someone is saying based on other languages | 19:34 |
| * phdeswer should offer tbr a beer more often thinking of it | 19:34 | |
| Yaniel | but saying something yourself? no | 19:34 |
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| tbr | phdeswer: I personally believe, Jolla could offer me a job that would pay for my beers, but that's a tangent. | 19:35 |
| Aard | tbr: how much beers do we need to pay you? | 19:35 |
| Yaniel | I once had to write a letter in swedish at school and had no idea how to write it, so I guessed based on german :D | 19:35 |
| tbr | Aard: the general jolla sailor salary's worth | 19:36 |
| Aard | you can't drink so much | 19:36 |
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| Yaniel | apparently it ended up being something that would be more or less correct swedish... in the 1800s | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | challenge accepted? | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:36 |
| tbr | Aard: barter economy FTW! | 19:36 |
| Yaniel | did you mean: bartender economy | 19:37 |
| tbr | Aard: also working for jolla probably needs a unhealthy dose of alcoholism | 19:37 |
| tbr | Yaniel: niiiice one! | 19:37 |
| Aard | Stskeeps: i propose we try it out, and see how he copes. I'll even throw in some of my own money to enjoy that :p | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | i did not just talk about drinking beer | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:37 |
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| * tbr would love to see the finnish tax office receive a stack of beer crates marked "taxes" | 19:38 | |
| Stskeeps | in .dk, there's "pant" on the crates | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | at least plastic ones | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | (pfant?) | 19:39 |
| netzvieh | yaaay network died *grml* | 19:39 |
| tbr | in germany too | 19:39 |
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| tbr | in finland those crates are getting rare, but I think they also have a return value | 19:39 |
| FireFly | Yaniel: ...why would you have to write a letter in swedish for school? | 19:39 |
| Yaniel | it was an assignment bach in high school | 19:40 |
| Yaniel | back* | 19:40 |
| Aard | Stskeeps: I'd say we deliver the beer in the biggest container possible, and it needs to be returned for next months delivery | 19:40 |
| kimmoli | tbr: you mean these ? https://app.younited.com/?shareObject=895ccfcb-0c48-ddd5-1c13-40e7653fc973 | 19:40 |
| tbr | kimmoli: nice one, no, not familiar with these :D | 19:41 |
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| gogeta_ | tbr ... BYOB Brew You Own Beer | 19:41 |
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| * Stskeeps needs to head to bed | 19:44 | |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 19:44 |
| gogeta_ | night stskeeps | 19:45 |
| netzvieh | ah wait, only subscribers can send to devel-list? | 19:46 |
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| netzvieh | that'd explain why my mail isn't posted yet | 19:46 |
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| netzvieh | mhh, now it'd be interesting what mail i used to subscribe to that list | 19:55 |
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| phdeswer | netzvieh: something arrived now | 19:57 |
| netzvieh | ahh there it is :) | 19:57 |
| lbt | hah - someone just did a mailman review at the same time as me :) | 19:58 |
| cybette | ;) | 20:00 |
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