Monday, 2014-06-02

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coderusif anyone have/have friend with root-unlocked WP device please ping me04:54
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northHi. Where can I browse/download/checkout sailfish OS source code ?05:49
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tbrnorth: it's all over github, except for the closed source bits05:58
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tbrnorth: if you want specifically all open source licensed code that was used for a specific firmware, you can request a DVD to be snail-mailed by jolla05:58
tbror you just go here http://images.formeego.org/jolla/sources/05:59
tbrthat at least covers update 4 for now. the rest is on its way.05:59
northI want to port Sailfish os to Nexus 4. I am looking forward to build my own image from source tbr05:59
tbrok, that needs a _very_ different approach06:00
tbralso no porting needed as there alreayd _is_ a nexus 4 port06:00
northok. I am vaguely aware of how Sailfish OS is organized06:02
tbrthere are detailed installation instructions. somewhere™. but you can probably find them using google.06:03
northAlso, Sailfish OS's site mentions a real alternative, but I think its only with the libhybris06:04
northif you take out libhybris, sailfish os can't talk to hardware06:05
northwhich means its essentially not a real alternative on the whole, but only with the Higher layer elements.06:05
northcorrect me if I am wrong06:05
northUbuntu-touch is a similar case06:08
northright ?06:08
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Stskeepsnorth: if you're around in 50 mins i will give you a runthrough06:11
Stskeepsr06:11
northStskeeps: sure06:12
Stskeepsour x86 emulator doesnt use libhybris, fwiw06:12
northI mean the mobile uses libhybris to talk to the underlying hardware06:16
Stskeepsso; architecturally, we rely just on having a hardware adaptation that can do ofono, bluez, opengl es 2.0 with wayland protocol and able to do pulseaudio06:17
Stskeepswhen you go to a ODM, you practically have to either have to make a massive investment into porting drivers to non-android, or reuse what's there06:18
Stskeepsand take it from me, even if you do get drivers for whatever miracolous reason, for let's say, wayland, or x11, quality is bad06:18
Stskeepsso what libhybris enables us to do is to reuse the hardware adaptation that's already been productized for a certain chipset06:19
Stskeepsand focusing on what we're good at, enabling experience, building a good OS, etc06:19
northYes. Isn't the libhybris way a lil overhead ?06:19
Stskeepsnot as far as we can see06:19
Stskeepsthe amount of cycles needed is minimal06:19
Stskeepsa tiny bit of memory overhead, sure, but compared to the investment needed to get 'native' drivers and get to market quicker..06:20
ppless than having everything in Java, I'm sure ;)06:20
northFact is I am not criticizing the project but trying to contribute to the community.06:20
Stskeepsyeah, i know - hence me explaining the setup06:20
northSo Sailfish OS uses the workaround of rilmodem-plugin of ofono like Ubuntu-touch does ?06:21
Stskeepsyes06:21
Stskeepswe invented libhybris, they invented rilmodem-plugin, it's a fair trade ;)06:21
northwhich pretty much makes UT and Sailfish similar OS, with minor differences06:22
north?06:22
Stskeepsi'm aware there's alternatives like freedreno and such, but the value of having a ODM/chipset supported modem implementation, opengles stack, etc is just immensely important when it comes down to numbers06:22
Stskeepswell06:22
Stskeepsours was built from bottom up to be for mobile06:22
Stskeepsubuntu was built from bottom up to be a desktop and server OS06:22
Stskeepsand some of these things are really really hard to chop off06:22
northWhere can I see the porting guide for Sailfish OS ?06:23
Stskeepsthat one is getting released hopefully within 1 1/2 week if we're lucky06:23
Stskeepswhat device do you have in mind?06:23
Stskeepsor SoC, rather06:24
northI have a Nexus4 and Micromax Canvas devices at my diposal06:24
Stskeepsok, nexus 4 you can try to download already now06:25
northBut I want to go as OpenSource way as possible because, the RIL and stuff are completely closed.06:25
Stskeepsyes06:25
Stskeepsit's easier to from a working setup, from a community pov, and then replacing closed bits one by one06:25
Stskeepspeople get interested in your work, instead of hw support being buggy from day 106:26
Stskeepsthe quicker people can use it as a daily device, the better06:26
northI would like to know, how many people do you think know that this particular project exists ?06:26
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northBecause I came I to know about this project from libhybris06:27
north:p06:27
Stskeepshehe.. quite a few06:27
Stskeepsalso, there's one difference between sailfishos and ubuntu -- we've factually shipped a device, productized it, field tested gotten it certified in head and bottom, operator tested, and in hands on many many consumers06:27
northWhich device is it ?06:28
Stskeepssee jolla.com06:28
Stskeepsand that is reflected immensely in quality06:28
northAnd the project wiki claims that Android apps can be installed side-by-side with Sailfish OS apps06:29
northActually this project should've got more limelight than it is having now, if it can support Android apps too06:30
north:p06:30
Stskeepssure06:31
Stskeepsbut we're in EU markets currently, not worldwide06:31
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Stskeepsmaking ourselves more known through downloadable sailfishos for your device though06:32
Nicd-north: android apps work quite well, you can even have google play if you're willing to run a few terminal commands :P06:33
northNicd-: on a scale of five how much is the OS complete ? supporting devs and users pov ?06:33
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Stskeepsalso note we've been developing this since what, almost two years now?06:34
Stskeepswith 100 people06:35
Nicd-north: maybe 3. there's some way to go with features and bugfixes (some nice things are coming in the future updates) but it's a working OS already and you can dev for it just fine06:35
Nicd-but that's just my opinion06:36
Nicd-personally I'm really happy with it (and indeed writing software for it whenever I have the time)06:36
ppyea, mostly just polish needed06:37
northsounds really cool. I would love to contribute to the community06:38
Stskeepsfeel free to hang out here then, and/or #jollamobile06:39
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Juubai'm no developer, but i almost would give the Sailfish a mark of 4/506:48
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iekkunorth, welcome :)06:53
kimmoligood morning to people of this channel !06:55
iekkugood morning kimmoli06:55
iekkunice and sunny day :)06:55
kimmoliwindy here in espoo06:56
iekkudoesn't seem so windy in tampere06:57
iekkuworking at bus while travelling to office :P06:57
iekkugood time to read mails and reply06:57
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kimmolialready at office, trying to get connected to jolla samba share while having breakfast07:01
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northInitially Sailfish OS was built for Nokia N900 ?07:03
Nicd-no07:03
ln-thp: a small SDL2 sample (without OpenGL) that works fine in the emulator, but shows only a black screen on the phone: https://github.com/lanurmi/sailfish-minimal-sdl  (and even crashes on the phone if SDL_RENDERER_SOFTWARE is used).07:04
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Nicd-north: here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mer_and_mobile_operating_systems.svg07:04
northBut Sailfish OS supports Nokia N900 ?07:04
Stskeepsno07:04
Nicd-Nokia N900 had Maemo07:04
northok07:05
Nicd-in theory I guess you could at some point put Sailfish on the N900. but the hardware can be too slow for it to run nicely07:06
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northis the source hosted at Github ?07:11
Nicd-yes, the open parts07:11
Stskeepsit's kinda spread out atm07:11
Stskeepswe're fixing that, albeit too slowly07:11
northWhat parts of Sailfish OS are closed ?07:12
northThe gesture stuff ?07:12
Stskeepsbasically UI; with exception of virtual keyboards, silica QML files, and sailfish browser07:13
Stskeepsall middleware and core stuff open07:13
Nicd-jolla's builtin apps are closed except for the browser afaik07:14
northAny plans of licensing the whole project under FOSS licenses ?07:14
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northBecause Wikipedia mentions it07:14
northreference 3607:14
Stskeepscan't trust everything wikipedia says :P07:15
Nicd-I believe it is Jolla's end goal but not currently feasible for financial or business reasons07:16
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Nicd-that's what I have understood from the statements they've given07:16
Stskeepsi'm not sure how that reference supports that wikipedia statement07:16
Stskeepsit talks about 'truly open ecosystem'07:16
northhehe07:18
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saidinesh5Stskeeps: the sailfish virtualkeyboard is closed right?07:25
Stskeepsyes but not layouts07:25
tachikomajust want to say how much I love my jolla :)07:25
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saidinesh5Stskeeps: so what if i compile and install another maliit plugin? how to get sailfish to use it?07:27
Stskeepsi'm not sure, sorry -- but you might want to take a look at what other people did07:27
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saidinesh5hmm....07:28
Stskeepsas i'm sure there's alternative plugins07:29
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fk_lx_don't belive Jolla, better read this: https://twitter.com/hardcodes/status/47312752758242509007:31
fk_lx_and this: http://jollamoralstandards.blogspot.com/07:31
saidinesh5Stskeeps: googling for them07:31
fk_lx_Arrogance, arrogance and once again arrogance07:31
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fk_lx_Sven puts it the best, he got attracted by words, by those pitching many were attracted07:32
stephg+1 to what tachikoma said07:32
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Stskeepsfk_lx_: it's fine to critisise, but consider to be more constructive about it, this is first warning, next time, you get banned07:33
fk_lx_Stskeeps: go on, you are good at it, especially banning and justyfing it by unjust accusations07:33
fk_lx_Stskeeps: btw. this is official Jolla channel, so you will be baning as Jolla employee07:34
fk_lx_good reason to sue Jolla for discrimination and kicking people for personal reasons07:34
fk_lx_and yes my criticsm is constructive07:34
fk_lx_Sven post is constructive07:34
ln-discriminating annoying people is not a crime, unless it's based on their gender, sexual orientation, or race.07:35
fk_lx_if you don't have enough that you will be sued here in Poland and want your company to be sued in Finland, then go on07:35
Stskeepsi'm aware and i will be doing it based on good community management reasons, such as this good old article: how to deal with poisonous people in your communities, http://blogs.oreilly.com/conferences/2006/07/oscon-how-open-source-projects.html07:35
fk_lx_ln-: get yourself familiar with Finnish law07:35
fk_lx_Stskeeps: speaking of poisonous people, maybe look at the mirror07:36
fk_lx_Stskeeps: throw stone if you aren't without fault, isn't that what Bible says07:36
fk_lx_ln-: http://jollamoralstandards.blogspot.com/2014/05/legal-steps.html07:36
fk_lx_ln-: discrimination for personal reasons is a crime07:36
ballockoh, somebody has a bad day07:37
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*** fk_lx_ was kicked by Stskeeps (Poisonous person, if anybody wants to argue with this in a calm manner, please let's discuss)07:37
SK_workthanks god07:37
SK_work(and thanks Stskeeps)07:37
stephg+107:37
* kimmoli does not measure bllodpressure just now07:37
stephgkimmoli, you've not made a TOH to do that yet ;:?07:37
Stskeepsand note: i'm not angry, at all, at the moment, or upset, despite everything, but, this fullfills so many things in typical irc guidelines and how to deal with people in a community07:37
tachikomasrsly - this is only about mtp???07:38
tachikomaor do i miss something07:38
Stskeepstachikoma: nah, hardcodes' post is reasonable07:38
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Stskeepscriticism , especially constructive, is very useful07:38
Stskeepswhen it's presented in a personal attacking manner, it's not07:38
VDVsxmtp seems to be hot topic these days :)07:38
SK_workVDVsx: :D07:38
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Stskeepsi didn't know, fwiw, that MTP was the suggested replacement for mass storage07:39
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Stskeepsin usb07:39
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Stskeepsalso, note, that discussing the above ban does not in any way mean i'll ban you or otherwise, so feel free to state if you disagree07:40
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kimmoli:)07:41
VDVsxyeah, think everybody here knows well that particular person :)07:41
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kimmolii think that when you are marketing stuff, you need to be arrogant in some level - (but not tv-shop -level)07:41
tachikomaok, I don;t like mtp either but I can accept change07:42
* kimmoli googles mtp but dont find anything for this context07:42
fluxin the end I imagine Jolla should support 'all' of them - in particular the new block-storage emulator for filesystem is interesting - so isn't it mostly a question of priorization?07:42
ballockhttp://xkcd.com/1357/07:43
* Stskeeps ponders if that's 'standards' or 'free speech'07:44
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tachikomaI see disadvantages with the phone, yes, but for me the advantages still win07:45
tachikomabattery life for example07:45
Stskeepshmm, you're on latest update?07:45
Stskeepsand how does your usage look like07:45
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kimmoliwas batterylife disadvantage or advantage?07:46
tachikomaI'm on the latest update, occasionally surf, do mail, chat, phone calls, sms. Runs for at least 4 days without additional charge - just awesome07:46
lbtkimmoli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol07:46
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tachikomakimmoli: advantage ;)07:46
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kimmolitachikoma: that i thought of07:47
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lbtAlso this talk from ELC http://elcabsna2014.sched.org/event/dc8501b86dfd95801691c156a8b7343f# - if audio ever materialises it's worth a listen07:48
tachikomabut biggest advantage for me prsonally is the fact that i can develop small games for my kids in the evening with qml in a extremely easy way07:48
nahkissthat guy really made my day, taking a law suit against company because they banned you from their irc channel. Not sure if  he thought he was in america07:48
Stskeepslbt: ah, yes07:48
Stskeepsi should watch that07:48
ballockWhile we are "giving constructive feedback", I occasionally get high battery drain without any application topping that, with phone overheating, and frozen UI with red blinking.07:49
tachikomayes, I know i can also run those on android - but after 3 days of trying to the the development system for android working I still failed to get a single qml app packaged in a way that it was installable or runable on the android tablet.07:49
lbtStskeeps: I'm still doing a summary of ELC - got distracted :)07:49
Stskeepsballock: yes -- there's a blocking dbus call somewhere that goes nuts07:49
Stskeepshopefully next update kills that permentnly07:49
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ballockI would also like my calendar more obvious, like a widget or so, I don't always remember to start it and I miss people's birthdays.07:50
ballockStskeeps: good :)07:50
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kimmolii hade my first sudden reboot yesterday07:50
kimmolior was it 2nd07:50
Stskeepskimmoli: talk to care if it says SMPL in /var/log/systemboot.log07:50
Stskeepsballock: i usually just keep it open, but i wouldn't mind having 'start these at boot'07:51
ballockis there something going on with btrfs too? At one point I pushed 4 GB of pictures to off-load my camera07:51
tachikomawhen I have some time left I'll also send my games to harbour, I got a nice memory game where one can use own pictures as content07:51
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ballockand it made the phone crawl07:51
Stskeepsballock: how did you push it?07:51
ballockcp07:51
ballockfrom the sd07:51
Stskeepswell, may not necessarily be about btrfs but simple i/o starvation07:52
ballockand by camera I meant an external, sd-fat32 camera which was out of space07:52
ballockThat would be true *during* the copy, not for the next 2 days.07:53
kimmoliStskeeps: nope. Shutdown message is just missing, hw reboot07:53
Stskeepskimmoli: hmm so maybe kernel crash07:55
kimmolilet me see my journal07:56
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tachikomajollamoralstandards - wtf seriously !?!?07:59
Dr_CainI put electical tape under the battery to get rid of the sudden reboots08:00
Stskeepskimmoli: generally if you start having shutdowns or reboots, contact care08:00
kimmolii will make barricades on ruoholahti08:01
Stskeepswhy barricades.. and not protest signs?08:01
Stskeeps:P08:01
kimmolii dont believe in signs08:01
Stskeepsok, let me rephrase08:02
Stskeepssigns that are factually huge OLED screens08:02
kimmolihmm.. i have somewhere almost 2m long moving led display...08:02
* faenil joins and notices a strange monday excitement, too much backlog :D08:03
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w00tfawzi: we're just all excited you're here08:03
kimmoliäh, cant get samba to work at office domains ..08:03
tachikomahttp://jollamoralstandards.blogspot.de/p/blog-page_25.html <- this guy has a problem....08:03
stephg\o/08:03
faenilfail w00t08:03
ballockthat's actually a special kind of troll, quite popular here in Poland08:04
tachikomaoh, it is?08:04
tachikomawow08:04
faenilfawzi, I'm sorry for w00t, the guy can't behave :)08:04
Stskeepsi think this is a sad case, all that really needs to be said about it has been said, there's more important things in life..08:04
tachikomaI wasted some time now reading his stuff and still my head is shaking08:05
ballockIt's a little bit like don kichot, which fights fiercely but the target is not the best one.08:05
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tachikomasorry Stskeeps, i just saw it first time today, won;t waste more time on it, but it is scary I have to say08:06
tachikomaballock: yeahh, that is a good expression i think08:06
kimmolias he has said himself already in dec'13, he should get some help08:06
nahkisswhat was that guys problem anyway, like why is he doing all this08:06
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tachikomathe effort he puts into it is amazing08:06
nahkisswhat started this all on his part08:06
kimmolii'm only interested what is that famous postcard ?08:06
tachikomanahkiss: From what I gather hea was treated not teh way he expected it in the 'community' but I did not read every little detail08:07
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tachikomaI just go wtf all the time looking at that page08:07
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lbttachikoma: it has the same compulsive attraction as a soap opera. Sadly some things resonated in his head and we all know how resonance turns out : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mclp9QmCGs  ... please note the commentary: "No one was injured in the whole affair but a small dog in the car was frightened"08:20
kimmoliwhy it is that when i have somethgin to look from journal, it is volatile08:20
lbtkimmoli: it can be made persistent but it then uses disk space08:20
kimmolii know....08:20
kimmoliit is that it drops to volatile when updating08:21
lbtoh, I see what you mean08:21
lbt:)08:21
lbtyeah ... murphy's law basically08:21
kimmoliand my memory is volatile to change it back to persistent08:21
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kimmoliah, clock is 6145308:25
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tachikomalbt: I feel a very strong urge to tell this guy 'get a life' ;)08:31
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northHi, (I am back after sometime) so when can devs expect the source code to be hosted in a single place ? Github maybe ?08:44
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Stskeepsnorth: we're merging into merproject.org, git.merproject.org08:44
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SK_worknorth: source code of what ?08:52
SK_workdon't think this can happen08:52
SK_workMer is a rather independant project08:52
SK_workso they host their code08:52
deztructorkimmoli: journal config file was intentionally made a part of package (by maintainer) o overwrite potentially destructive changes done by user08:52
deztructorkimmoli: ask plundstr for details08:53
northSK_work: It would be easy if the whole project is hosted in a single place, rather than bits and pieces here and there :)08:53
SK_worknorth: don't know08:53
tachikomawelcome to open source systems ;)08:53
SK_workIMO github is not the perfect place08:53
SK_workwhat if github crashes ?08:53
SK_workmerproject's gitlab sound good (with mirror on github)08:54
faenilnorth, I think it's okay until it's 2 places, isn't it08:54
northCyanogenmod hosts its code on Github, it never crashed afaik08:54
faenilvery distinct places08:54
plundstrkimmoli: journal config file bug has been fixed. It is now marked as %config. In upcoming update it will get overwritten because systemd version changes08:54
SK_worknorth: not about crash08:54
tachikomagithub was down quite often lately08:54
faenilyeah08:54
tachikomanot crashed - but unreachable08:54
northYes08:54
tachikomawhich can be pita08:55
northbut one project in two places ? imagine I have to clone two projects separately to build one image08:55
kimmoliplundstr: ik08:55
tachikomabut I honestly have no real opinion on the hosting topic, just my experience with github08:55
tachikomanorth: oh, you talks about a single project, not about sailfishos08:55
kimmolideztructor: plundstr thank you for info.08:55
north2 is also a hurdle when it comes to big projects IMO,08:56
tachikomamissunderstood you08:56
ballockHey, people: it's Linux. There's so many components inside it that you can't make all of the mainainers use on the(R) single hosted place08:56
tachikomaballock: thats my point. upstream alwasy is spread over the planet08:56
ballockSee Debian/Ubuntu/Redhat/Fedora: the code repos are all over the place08:56
ballockyet, the binary packages are always accompanied by source packages hosted with them.08:57
ballockI did not see the repositories in Jolla, they might have sources there too,08:57
ballockwould mean they *are* already hosted in a signle place.08:57
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Stskeepsthey're basically pointers to git repos08:57
faenilnorth, what's the problem in having repos which point to 2 different domains08:58
faenilnorth, in CM you still clone 100 repos from github08:58
ballockStskeeps: no srpms there?08:58
faenilwhat's the diff if it's 80 github and 20 gitlab08:58
faenilyou still have to clone 100 repos08:58
tachikomawhat is the point of srpms anyway ....08:58
Stskeepsballock: no srpms, they're dynamically generated based on the git repos08:58
ballockStskeeps: that's wrong.08:59
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ballockI mean, there's no problem with generating them, but that should generate an srpm too.08:59
Stskeepsokay, let me rephrase08:59
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tachikomamaybe a stupid question - but is jolla planing on making paid apps available in their store?09:05
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Acceyes they are, but no info when09:06
tachikomaI ask as my impression was back with the n900 - that failing to do so in a timely matter with the ovi store was one of the major problems fot the n900 to become attractive for mainstream users09:07
tachikomaI know, jolla has android compatibility but still I think it's something not to be underestimated09:08
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faeniltachikoma, Acce in the last community meeting (it's weekly, please attend if you can! next one is tomorrow!!) it was said that it will be withing H2 201409:18
faenilyou can ask iekku for more details iirc09:19
AcceQ2?09:19
faenilH209:19
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AcceWhat's H2? 2nd half?09:20
iekkuyes09:20
Acceoh, ok, I remember reading somewhere that Q3, but didn't want to mention it in case it's just rumors09:20
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Nicd-Acce: H2 is the other half!09:21
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artemma@tachikoma Paid apps are planned for H2, but that is pretty much all info available. No word on which exactly biz models are to be supported (just paid, subscriptions, in-app purchases, free trials, paid upgrades) nor payment channels (credit cards, operator bills, whatever), no markets/countries09:22
artemmaMy guesstimate is that jolla guys only started looking at it and for now are just thinking about getting "something most simple to do" out and maybe improve later09:23
SK_workartemma: I guess it will just be about payments09:23
SK_workartemma: exactly09:23
northSo from my understanding till now this is the architecture of Sailfish OS/Nemo LinuxKernel(arm) -> Mer -> lipstick/sailfish's propreitary UI ?09:24
Nicd-I wonder how the Finnish law works in that regard... as in if I need to fill in all sorts of paperwork to sell my app for 1 € on the store09:24
Nicd-north: Sailfish also has some Nemo middleware09:24
artemmaLooking at what Tizen with zero phones shipped was able to do with throwing money at developers it of course makes me sad that Jolla started thinking about dev money now only https://developer.tizen.org/contests/tizen-app-challenge09:24
northI forgot the libhybris for HAL and is the kernel vanilla ?09:24
SK_workartemma: eh09:24
SK_workartemma: Tizen = Samsung09:25
Nicd-I've understood it's Linux kernel + Mer + Nemo MW + Sailfish UI and apps09:25
SK_work= Money +++++09:25
Stskeepsartemma: the app challenge restarted several times, didn't it?09:25
Stskeeps(AFAIK)09:25
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artemmaStskeeps: I was following a little, didn;t seem to be restared09:25
artemmarestarted*09:25
Stskeepsat least there was massive problems initially09:25
Stskeepsmay finally have gotten solved now09:25
artemmathere were massive problems with Tizen itself :)09:25
artemmaand I still doubt it will be a big bet for samsung (after the recent alliance with Google)09:26
Stskeeps'let's launch it in russia' does sound rather .. fun09:26
Stskeeps(personal opinion)09:26
artemmait did serve as a good tool for making the google alliance though I think09:26
artemmaIMHO they just release it because it's sorta ready eventually. Plus maybe for accessories/wearables09:27
artemmano need for Tizen after G agreement anymore09:27
Stskeepsrecouping investment?09:27
Stskeepshttps://twitter.com/TizenFrank fwiw09:27
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artemmaHowever, IMHO that only makes it only more amazing what a simple app challenge was able to achieve. I doubt that devs were seriously thinking abt making normal good sales with the apps09:28
artemmathere weren't even much money involved09:28
Stskeepsthat said, i do think 'tizen on wearables' was a smart move09:29
Stskeepsdespite the fact they went out and osborned it quickly after by stating they'll use android wear, being very wishywashy about commitment to tizen09:29
artemmait's about G agreement again me thinks09:30
artemmaPlus rumors tell tizen had quite serious quality issues09:30
faenilStskeeps, do you have the link to your packages overview handy? north can see a lot from that09:32
Stskeepshttp://releases.merproject.org/~carsten/niceview.png ?09:33
faenilnorth, ^09:33
northyep09:34
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northgotcha09:34
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SK_workartemma: SailfishOS too ;)09:36
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SK_work(quality issues)09:37
faenilnorth, mw is Nemo there (stuff you find on github), core is Mer, and non-oss is Jolla stuff09:37
faenilquite well separate in the picture09:37
artemmayeah.. me got tired wasting 5 min for reconnecting to network out of 15min walk to metro :(09:37
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Stskeepswhen have you last seen a mobile os without quality issues?09:37
artemmaSW is complex nowadays, issues happen indeed09:38
artemmathat said standards are higher nowadays09:38
Stskeepsbut yeah, @$@$@ connman09:38
northYea, I am looking at the connectivity stuff, no ntwork manager ? connman ?09:38
north:p09:38
Stskeepsconnman09:38
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SK_workStskeeps: WP did managed pretty09:39
SK_workwell09:39
artemmait's more about what you focus on. Like you know famous case when Apple did not focus on MMS not needed for US users. And did focus on stuff important for them, such as simple easy web browsing and chatting09:39
StskeepsSK_work: lumia 800 was atrocious in that regard.. my wife and my sister in law managed to really screw it up09:39
Stskeepsof course, WP got better09:39
SK_workStskeeps: I never screwed WP that badly09:39
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SK_workeven if I have the perfect tester (GF)09:39
SK_workwho can screw pretty much any OS09:40
Stskeepsthey managed to get it into such a bad state that you had to go for emergency reflashing09:40
VDVsxSK_work, new windows phones suffer from sudden reboots, like some other devices :P09:40
VDVsxi.e new lumias09:40
SK_workVDVsx: really ?09:40
SK_work:O09:40
SK_work:(09:40
SK_workStskeeps: wooow :O09:40
SK_workright09:40
artemmaI am not that much sad about Jolla qulity level - it's okayish. I am more sad about what Jolla seems to focus on: landscape and universal hardware adaptations and MMS instead of network reliability and developer friendliness09:40
artemmaand browser that is.. quite sad compared to both ios and android09:41
Stskeepsartemma: well, hardware adaptations is simple -- it's something you need to keep on doing, else you can't do next devices, evaluate, etc.. it's a typical activity but we're using it in a different way09:41
StskeepsMMS may simply be customer requirements09:41
* lbt thinks MMS was "seriously, you want MMS?"09:42
artemmaStskeeps: you nailed it! I can't see why Jolla focuses so much on the next devices instead of me :)09:42
faenilartemma, quite, quite sad :(09:42
artemmaseriously though I understand that Sailfish OS on Android can be a serious big bet for Jolla09:42
Stskeepsartemma: let me show you a graph of purchaseable value of a device over time..09:43
Stskeeps:P09:43
SK_workartemma: the fact that network is worked hard09:43
artemmawell, then I hope it plays well and gives Jolla time and money to focus on mee too one day09:43
SK_workbut it's just hard to make it work09:43
Stskeepsalso, any work that goes into let's say, sailfish for android devices, helps solve issues that may be shown harder on more non-complete hw adaptations09:43
Stskeeps+easier09:43
faenilSK_work, 1, or 2 people on network? :P09:43
faenil1 full time + 1 in emergency or something? :D09:44
faenilStskeeps, +109:44
artemmaAnd again you nail it: I am usually way more annoyed by inconsistent UX than by HW adaptation missing. But again I don't know about the Jolla's market bets :)09:44
SK_workfaenil: tell me, who knows connman :P09:44
faenilSK_work, if you need to fix it, you learn, as simple as that09:44
SK_workfaenil: /me go learn connman09:45
SK_work:P09:45
* lpotter hides09:45
kimmoli:)09:45
* artemma thinks that looking at Sailfish OS it is clear designers play secondary role in the company. That is not necessarily bad for a new phone startup though09:45
SK_workwell, honestly, I don't know, it doesn't sound THAT easy09:45
lbtartemma: ?09:45
lbtyou mean UI designers?09:45
* faenil caresses lpotter..."it's all right lorn, everything will be alright"09:45
* lpotter shivers in the dark corner09:46
faenil:D09:46
* phdeswer is sometimes afraid connman will turn lpotter in a madman09:46
artemmalbt: yes. Sailfish level of inconsistency keeps me crazy. 6 month after starting to use it and being a power user, I still have to consiously think which gesture to make where and I am often trapped in ambeinces/launcher09:46
* lbt hugs lpotter ... "there, there. It'll be alright..."09:46
* lpotter mumbles incoherently09:46
lbt:)09:47
lbtartemma: interesting09:47
tachikomafaenil: thanks for the head up bout community meeting - I come from a 3 month parental leave where i basically disconnected from the internet completely, so I'm a little bit out of sync with stuff09:47
stephglooks like connman slapped lpotter back...09:47
faeniltachikoma, I see :) congrats!09:47
faenilwhat I meant is, the poor lorn is losing is life on connman...can Jolla please assign 5 people to connman only??09:47
faenilPLEEEEEEEEEASE :P09:48
SK_workartemma: interesting, as I'm the total opposite09:48
lbtartemma: I'm not a UI guy so it's hard for me to explain the rationale for stuff - but as a mere user I personally don't have that issue09:48
* lpotter puts on his ConnMan Super Hero constume09:48
faenilahaha09:48
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SK_work:D09:48
tachikomalpotter: nice to meet you, thanks for the stuff you do ;)09:48
lpotterthanks. I try09:48
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lbtfaenil: there were 6 people ... someone did a merge and we now have lpotter ... that's each persons initial09:49
faenillol09:49
lpotteralthough I try hard not to touch connman09:49
* lpotter wonders how many people meego had on connectivity09:49
faenillpotter, oh btw is there any news about sailfish not disconnecting my 3g just because there's a wifi with the same name as mine, and it tries to connect to it?09:50
SK_workfaenil: well, trying to connect to a wifi sounds good09:51
SK_workbut disconnecting 3G at the same time don't sound good09:51
stephgfaenil: what's it supposed to be, psychic? ;)09:51
lpotterconnman has problems with AP's with same name+encryption09:51
faenilmaybe I wasn't clear09:51
faenilthe wifi it's trying to connect is *not* mine09:51
faenilit only has the same name09:51
faeniland connman thinks that's enough to start a relentless battle with it09:52
lpotterfaenil: perhaps if we ever get connman update stable that might help09:52
faenillpotter, oh09:52
lpottercurrently, connman doesn;t handle autoconnections, connectionagent does09:52
faenilokay09:52
tachikomafaenil: sounds awesome - especially if the phone wins the battle ;)09:52
faenilcan't you store something like, I don't know, AP MAC?09:52
lpotterno. connman knows nothing about the AP mac...09:53
faeniltachikoma, phone always loses :(09:53
tachikomadamned09:53
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faenillpotter, oh really :/09:53
tachikomayou need a fix then - not for connecting to the right ZP - but for winning that battle09:53
lpotterthats problemmatic, with same name AP's with different mac's09:53
artemmaBTW, one non-connman network observation after New York trip: Jolla seems not to know how to handle most of New York public network authentication requests09:53
faenillpotter, mm?09:54
artemmaI mean it doesn't show the net login page09:54
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SK_workfaenil: think eduroam09:54
SK_work(even if it's not supported by the jolla)09:54
lpotterartemma: ya, hotspots is something I haven't had time to spend time and fix09:54
SK_workeduroam is a network of hotspot09:54
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artemmait usually works in Europe, even better than needed (once I had 42 tabs with login requests starting one after another before I managed to kill wifi), but US seems to fancy some different standard09:54
faenilSK_work, ah I see09:54
faenilSK_work, yeah got it at uni as well09:55
SK_workfaenil: it's common to connect to same AP name09:55
SK_workthe N9 does thi09:55
SK_workandroid does this09:55
SK_worketc.09:55
lpottereduroam uses enterprise, which connman has usablility issues with09:55
faenilsrsly...I never noticed bb10 giving issues with this, tbh09:55
northjust asking, with Sailfish OSes motive being open source ? haven't you guys considered applying for GSoC ?09:56
faenillpotter, yeah he was just saying that there's a usecase to connecting to same AP names but different mac09:56
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Stskeepsnorth: i think we fall into an area where we wouldn't be accepted as an organization09:56
northum, why ?09:56
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SK_worknorth: because they are a company09:57
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northbut Nemo is not a company09:57
northI guess09:57
northMoodle is a company in that case09:57
SK_workfaenil: ^ you should be a GSOC mentor09:58
faenillol09:58
tachikomamh, here at work i do have also a bunch of APs with the same name - might explain occassional connection issues when i walked around09:59
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artemmaBTW, guys, do you know if some network improvements are expected to be a part of June update? Or are these for some later time?10:05
Stskeepswasn't there some notes already indicated?10:05
artemmaI don't think I noticed network fixes there10:06
northDown the line this project is somewhere related to Intel, so my question is why doesn't Intel support projects like this on a large scale ?10:06
artemmano browser performance issues (did notice multiple tabs though)10:06
Stskeepsnorth: they are involved in tizen10:07
northI mean for the co-existence of multiple OS in the market. People can readily chose which OS they want10:07
northalso not to forget the problem with OEMs or rather single OEM Qualcomm10:07
north:p10:07
artemmaIf this coming Samsung Z uses Android hardware (it's quite typical for Samsung to use nearly same HW for multiple OS), it could be the first device where you could run Android, Tizen and Sailfish. And maybe Windows Phone too :)10:08
Stskeepsi have doubts on that10:09
northswapping OS or multi OS ?10:09
artemmasure, you might not be able to replace OS yourself, but a technical guy with access keys working inside Samsung might be able to do it10:09
Stskeepsmy bet is that it's a qualcomm device, with continued x11 work from meego times10:09
SK_workStskeeps: so X11 drivers ?10:10
Stskeepswe'll see if i'm wrong, but, that's my bet10:11
SK_workStskeeps: because X11 drivers would be slightly overkill IMO10:11
StskeepsSK_work: well10:11
SK_workbut well, Samsung is samsung, and they can force quelcomm to write x11 drivers10:12
Stskeepstizen dev devices were x11, too..10:12
SK_workreally ? didn't knew10:12
kimmoliooo, i just got sailfish on my ipad10:12
SK_workkimmoli: stop kidding10:12
tachikomayou put a screenshot on it as background?10:13
kimmolino, i did put sailfish on my ipad10:13
kimmolilook https://app.younited.com/?shareObject=fc36cdb7-f7bf-b928-316a-5f8abed358f410:13
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northhahaha10:14
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VDVsxkimmoli, was the fish angry ? ipad looks a bit destroyed :D10:20
kimmoliwhat, it has just a small scratch, but thats just cosmeti, it works. (But it's safer to use with stylus)10:21
kimmoliactually i tried to get sailfish in the ipad...10:24
iekkukimmoli, :D10:30
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leszekhi10:56
Stskeepsm0010:56
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kaltsikimmoli: sexy ipad cover.. almost looks like it's broken11:01
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* artemma watched Bogdan Vatra's webinar lately and is excited to use same Qt code for both Sailfish and Android11:42
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tachikomaartemma: I tried that and failed11:50
tachikomamainly i failed with the android devel system i think ...11:50
artemmait's a pity. I am thinking about switching more to Android, but would like to use Qt there11:51
artemmahmm, actually I remember running Qt helloWorlds on both Android and iOS11:51
tachikomano, android and me - we are not compatible11:51
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* artemma was thinking about iOS more, but level of Qt Android support seems to be way higher. Almost usable11:52
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scharel_I never believed this is gonna happen: http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/2/5771302/samsung-hedges-android-bet-with-first-tizen-phone12:05
javispedrohm12:07
javispedroalso galaxy gear 1 updated to tizen12:07
* javispedro ponders if it may be the case they're more serious about tizen.... probably not.12:07
scharel_yes and tv. but i thaught they canceled it for phones12:08
SK_work2.3GHz quad-core processor12:09
Stskeepsit's amazing what you need to do, to make mobile X11 perform.12:09
javispedroand engadget calls it "fairly pedestrian specs"12:09
SK_workStskeeps: don't you think that Tizen can scale down a bit ?12:09
Stskeeps(i'm being unfair, fwiw)12:09
SK_workjavispedro: well, maybe not processor, but screen, camera etc are pretty standard12:10
javispedro(yes you are =) )12:10
SK_workStskeeps: (just because you prefer wayland :D ?)12:10
artemmaTizen is just a corporate clone of Jolla :)12:10
artemmawell, used to be before agreement with google12:10
javispedro5'' it's now "mini"12:10
SK_workleather case is nice12:10
Stskeepsartemma: well, tizen came before jolla12:11
scharel_I hope it doesn't steal too many customers from jolla12:11
SK_workscharel_: does Jolla customers like Android-lookalikes ?12:11
artemmacorporate behemots are lower and Sammy never was very great about SW quality12:11
artemmaslower*12:11
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tachikomaStskeeps: n900 did have x11, right? it did perform considerably well for the 600 mhz it ran on12:11
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Stskeepsyes, i'm being intentionally unfair12:12
Stskeeps:P12:12
Stskeepsn900 was never, ever, 60fps though12:12
* artemma remembers stunning 15-20fps on N900 when scrolling menu shortcuts :)12:12
ppthey did spend a lot of effort on it too :-)12:12
fzkyeah, it was pretty slow when having much processes running12:12
artemmaJolla at least looks way more like 30-40fps. That is except for sudden shuttering in the middle :)12:13
ppand probably had pretty good relations with the gfx chip vendor12:13
scharel_SK_work_ I fear that some linux fans that don't know sailfish will buy a Tizen device instead just because Samsung is a big player12:13
SK_workJolla is rather OK performance wise, except shutters :(12:13
SK_workunlike SFOS, Tizen is 100% OSS12:14
SK_workscharel_: let's see12:14
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tachikomatizen is 100% oss - really?12:14
SK_work(maybe not Sammy's UI though)12:14
tachikomawhat about the hw drivers12:14
artemmaI am teaching ppl abt coding for sailfish sometimes (not much, but still), I always ask why they use Jolla. Number one argument is always open source image12:14
artemmaapparently Jolla still manages to look like open source dream12:15
artemmaregardless of whether it's true12:15
tachikomai simply use jolla becasue i hate everything else ;)12:15
SK_workartemma: Jolla might not be OSS12:15
SK_worktachikoma: HW drivers aside :)12:15
SK_workthey are Open IMO12:15
SK_worklike Stskeeps on IRC12:15
tachikomait's like the classic quote on the mutt homepage12:15
SK_workavailable12:15
artemmaSK_work: jolla's *image* is open source ;)12:15
tachikoma'every mobile phone sucks - jolla just sucks less'12:16
SK_workand you can dig around inside QML files,a nd play with patchmanager12:16
javispedrooh, fk_lx's been banned again, I guess that's the reason he didn't jump in yet =)12:16
SK_workartemma: it's not 100% OSS, but quite OSS friendly12:16
tachikomalol12:16
SK_workartemma: yeah, I know12:16
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SK_workeven if it's not 100% OSS, it's friendly12:16
SK_workbut the fact is that it's rather true when applied12:16
* artemma uses Jolla for a single reason: It is the only mobile platform for my precious Qt and QML coding. The day it's native enough on iOS, I move to iOS (not likely to happen ever though)12:16
tachikomaartemma: that is my second reason to use it.12:17
SK_workartemma: first reason for me too12:17
tachikomaI want a jolla tablet - is there anything hackable already?12:17
SK_work<3 Qt QML12:17
SK_worktachikoma: reminds me of porting the SFOS SDK X11 on an iconia tab :)12:17
fzki would like that toot tachikoma12:17
StskeepsSK_work: we should really make sailfish run with wayland on it.. didn't we get that working?12:18
fzkipad has good battery life, one month according to apple, if kept suspended lol12:18
SK_worksecond reason for Jolla is that it's nice to use (when not buggy)12:18
SK_workStskeeps: I got bored of this tablet.12:18
SK_workit's really crappy :(12:18
Stskeepsnod12:18
tachikomaI'll buy whatever tablet jolla will run on without too many issues12:18
SK_workmaybe some day12:18
javispedroaren't the iconia tabs intel?12:18
SK_worktachikoma: IMO, nexuses12:18
tachikomaSK_work: yeah, need to confirm first, but will need one soon anyway for my kids12:19
Nicd-javispedro: sailfish runs on x86 too12:19
Stskeepsjavispedro: sure, but small detail is that we publish for x86/i486 too12:19
javispedroactually, I was mentioning it because I suspect it would be trivial then12:19
* artemma doubts sailfishos is great for large tablets. IMHO main Sailfish UX benefit is that it provides you with more screen space at a cost of speed of interaction. And tablets.. they have enough screen space already12:19
tachikomagot them this and need bluetooth 4.0 android devices for them to be able to visually program them: https://www.play-i.com/12:20
Stskeepsartemma: yeah, it's not a tablet ui12:20
Stskeepsbut12:20
SK_workartemma: it can be interesting to tinker with12:20
Stskeepswith some mods12:20
Stskeepsit could be very nice12:20
* artemma would think sailfish actually makes way more sense for smaller devices. Especially for single hand operational sizes. Then extra screen space for not having any toobars would be real useful12:20
SK_workartemma: +112:21
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artemmaSay at iPhone screen size killing top and bottom toolbars would add a lot of screen space. And pulley menu makes most sense when single hand used12:21
javispedrotachikoma: why do they advertise those things are for children, when it's _clear_ it's actually targeted towards geeky parents12:21
tachikomai still would prefer using it on a tablet to android12:21
tachikomabecause i and android - we do not like each other12:22
artemmafor this much extra screen space you could suffer the need for slow pull and targeting menu  item12:22
Stskeepsnot to mention needing landscape launcher12:22
tachikomajavispedro: just - don;t tell my wife ... Ok? ;)12:22
tachikomashe did not get that yet12:22
SK_workartemma: IMO an android tablet can benefit from some swipe to back gestures12:23
SK_workand actually, gestures are good to not move your hand around the 4 corners of the tablet12:23
SK_workdon't know12:23
SK_workcould be good12:23
tachikomaI personally don;t care about the ui - i care about the stuff below12:23
SK_worktachikoma: I care about both :)12:24
artemmaSure some gestures are useful for mobile OS. I still think Jolla went overboard with them12:24
artemmabut then again maybe it's only me who still can12:24
javispedrotachikoma: btw jolla actually does speak bluetooth412:24
javispedrotachikoma: so scratch that nexus12:24
artemma't clearly distinguish between swipe from the edge and swipe from the middle12:24
tachikomajavispedro: yes, i know, but for my kids the phone is too small to develop robot programs with the graphical interface12:25
tachikomaI'm looking for something 10''ish12:25
javispedro=)12:25
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fzktachikoma: give them an avr processor, a computer to build the programs on and a pararellcable to burn it in ;)12:26
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tachikomafzk: guess what we did the last 3 months ;)12:27
tachikomabut i did that on the arduino platform12:27
tachikomaso, no parallel cable12:27
fzkarduino is nice with the bootloader12:27
tachikomayes12:27
tachikomaidiot proof12:28
tachikomathe right thing for me :)12:28
fzkmakes it very easy to work with12:28
tachikomafor kids that is an important criteria12:28
tachikomathey loose interest too quickly12:28
tachikomayou need to have the ws2812 up and rainbowing wqithing a very small timeframe ;)12:28
fzkim gonna lurk my kids into playing with technics lego first12:29
tachikomahehe, i have all the technics lego from my childhood and they just love that already12:29
fzkthen when they can handle a computation device, they should learn to code12:30
fzkits pretty handy in projects12:30
Nicd-just give them an FPGA, to hell with training wheels ;)12:30
tachikomaI have no such 'masterplan', they should just play with whatever they are interested in.12:30
tachikomarotfl12:30
fzkyeah, "program these chipsets and install your windows on it damnit!"12:30
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* javispedro teaches verilog to 16-18 year olds during summers12:31
tachikomabut i stareted to let them disassemble laptops when they were 2 years old12:31
tachikomasuch joy12:31
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fzklol12:31
fzkdid they eat the internals?12:31
tachikomalucky for me i have access to non ending amount of broken laptop hardawre :)12:31
tachikomanope, then connected the ground of the boards we scavenged to a battery and tried to make the leds on them lighten up12:32
tachikomawell, i connected the ground and then they ran power throu the board by randomly connecting to the solderpoints12:32
Nicd-230 V?12:32
scharel_sounds like lucky childhood :D12:33
tachikomanot quite12:33
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tachikoma2V12:33
fzk10 000V 1 000A12:33
fzk:D12:33
tachikomayeah - i turned my laptop into a single solderpoint12:34
javispedrothis guy in slashdot saying he prefers tizen vs maemo/meego because it's .deb =)12:34
scharel_then you don't even need leds to get some light12:34
fzkwasnt maemo debian based?12:35
tachikomascharel_: yeah, but it does not lighten the room for long - unless the plastic fire counts12:35
phdeswerjavispedro: is tizen really using deb? Nokia switched to rpm in meego because of Intel...12:35
tachikomafzk: it was and still is12:35
javispedroexactly.12:35
javispedrotizen is rpm!12:35
tachikomawhy is the packaging format that important?12:35
scharel_what framework is tizen using?12:36
* SpeedEvil finds it really odd that people care about packaging.12:36
phdeswertachikoma: reliability and ease of packaging...12:36
ppN9 was actually deb :-)12:36
SpeedEvilIt's packaging. You rip it off and throw it away12:36
w00tSpeedEvil: some people have too much time on their hands :)12:36
leszekscharel_: I guess its efl12:36
javispedroI can actually get why would people wnat to share packaging with whatever they use on the desktop12:36
tachikomaphdeswer: and depending on who i ask both are more relaibale and easy to package ;)12:36
SpeedEvilI do wonder if these people have loving collections of cardboard box.12:36
SpeedEviles12:37
fzkpotato or potatoe?12:37
phdeswerI don't really care, but I have had waaaay less issues with deb than rpm. And I found making deb packages easier. But all depends on personal preference and experience.12:37
javispedrothink geeky user wanting to package e.g. nfs-utils12:37
tachikomascharel_: rotfl12:37
ppthere's also always fpm :-)12:37
javispedrocopying whatever packaging their current distro uses is a benefit12:37
tachikomawhat did slackware use again?12:37
* javispedro has recently written a .yaml file for nfs-utils. the spectacles, they do MUCH!12:37
phdeswerI guess Tizen uses rpm, so that people who do Android on Ubuntu have to switch ;)12:38
fzkphdeswer: deb is nice when the package index get corrupted12:38
tachikomaandroid on ubuntu sounds scary to me12:38
phdeswerfzk: never had that. rpm db corruption regularly.12:39
tachikoma*can't resist urge ... to ... post ...*12:39
tachikomahttp://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml12:39
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phdeswertachikoma: If you want to do android development the instructions are to install and build on a specific version of Ubuntu12:39
tachikomamh, i did try to set up an android development system some time ago but can;t recall that ubuntu was required for that12:41
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javispedroI want sailfish for gentoo.12:42
* Stskeeps twitches12:43
javispedrook, my attempt at a trollish comment didn't work as expected.12:44
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faenilis the price drop published already?13:29
faenilis 389€ the new price?13:30
javispedroso much fuss for a 10eur price drop?13:31
gabriel9|workyou can get drunk for 10eur13:31
Nicd-faenil: I thought it was already 38913:31
gabriel9|workso it is nice :)13:31
specialit's not announced yet13:31
faenilNicd-, that's why I'm asking13:31
faenilspecial, thanks :)13:31
Nicd-why would they announce a price drop from 389 to 389? :P13:32
faenilNicd-, ... I thought it was 399 on the website13:32
faenildidn't know it was 389 on jolla.com13:32
tachikomaNicd-: it's a attention test13:32
faenilahah13:32
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northGuys ! I am not much aware of Wearable tech, but does OS for Wearable teach include connection managers too ?13:58
northBecause Samsung Gear 2 switched to Tizen13:58
fzkoh, they did?13:58
fzkwish it had gps :-)13:59
Loris_They are even releasing a Tizen Smartphone, called Samsung Z14:00
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northbut isn't Tizen non-opensource ?14:03
northI mean propreitary ?14:03
SK_worknorth: it is advertized as fully opened14:04
SK_workbut maybe UI is not14:04
northYes, according to Wikipedia, the UI is not licensed under open source licenses14:05
northbtw, are you all from Finland ?14:05
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Armadillono14:06
SK_worknorth: fr here :)14:06
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faenilnorth, "it" here :)14:13
northIt as in Italy ?14:14
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SK_workfaenil: I read it's here ?14:14
SK_workwhat's here ? :D14:14
faenilme!14:15
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SK_work:D14:18
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northWell, thanks for the information provided since morning. I am going AFK for few hours now :)14:23
northhave fun14:23
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specialTurski: mapplauncherd fix merged, but it won't be part of the next public update. Should be the one after that.14:44
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kimmoliIs there plans to open more "Silica" component API, like  e.g. Compressor, CompressbleItem and Expander ?14:54
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SK_workkimmoli: topic for next meeting ? :)14:54
rronduHi14:55
special..do those exist?14:55
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javispedrokimmoli: CompressableItem? is that scrolling feedback ala WindowsPhone?14:56
b0bbenhey all14:56
kimmoliactually i just found them...14:56
kimmolino, part of email composer14:56
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b0bbenwhere can i find the source of the "Components" app that's shipped with the emulator14:56
kimmolifrom the Sailfish\examples14:57
kimmolicomes with sdk installation14:57
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b0bbenkimmoli: omg so stupid of me...thx!14:58
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tbrha "15:15
tbrDefinition: API is stable only if project is dead."15:15
CissWitthats a poor excuse for unstable APIs :)15:15
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b0bben_could someone @ jolla please change the naming of this prop on DockedPanel:15:28
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b0bben_visible : real15:29
b0bben_This property holds the width or height of visible portion of a DockedPanel.15:29
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M4rtinKouch15:30
Turskispecial: awesome, thanks15:33
specialthanks for pushing me to pay attention to it :p15:33
Turskitook only a bit over two months :)(15:34
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specialyeah. github issues don't show up in front of me, and small fixes are too easy to ignore15:35
Turskiok, need to try to draw more attention next time15:36
specialor bug us for some help on setting up the SDK to build those packages and fix bugs yourself ;)15:36
Turskiyeah, that would be better15:38
Turskilooks like i mentioned that posixly_correct problem first time in 8th of january here15:38
Turskispecial: also, looks like you was pinged on that topic back then15:39
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rronduhey guys (and girls)15:41
specialTurski: yeah.. I'm the maintainer of mapplauncherd, but it's just a side project to a bunch of other things15:41
specialnot enough people, not enough time :<15:41
rronduI have a main qml page with a PageStack15:41
rronduand i push a page to the pagestack15:42
rronduthis is hte page : http://pastebin.com/J4zTANQA15:42
Turskispecial: yeah, i understand that. anyway good to have it fixed now15:42
rronduthe*15:42
SK_workrrondu: yeah ?15:42
rronduWhen I use the "onPositionChanged" event in that page, the pagestack kick in15:42
rronduand grab the event for himself when I flick right15:43
rronduand thus it is trying to go pop my page15:43
SK_workrrondu: yeah ?15:43
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rronduis there a way to block the pagestack from processing the event ?15:43
rronduplease :-)15:43
Turskispecial: so i can edit my answer in TJC with "will be fixed in update 8"?15:43
specialTurski: yes15:44
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SK_workrrondu: interesting15:47
SK_worka MouseArea shouldn't15:47
rronduYeah that's what I thought. This is weird15:47
SK_workhum15:48
rronduthe "propagateComposedEvents: false" and "mouse.accepted = true;" lines in the MouseArea are tests, it didn't work before so I tried putting them15:49
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scharel_price of jolla is now 349€: http://shop.jolla.com/cat-jolla.html15:52
rronduas long as the swipe is going left / up / down it works as expected15:53
rrondubut as soon as it goes right, the pageStack start poping the page15:53
rrondunice15:53
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lainwir3di'm lost on what to do :-(16:25
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SK_worklainwir3d: ???16:28
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lainwir3dSK_work: concerning the mouseEvent getting stolen by PageStack, sorry I changed my nick :P16:33
SK_work:D16:33
SK_worklainwir3d: try MouseArea {z: 10000}16:33
lainwir3dhmmm16:34
lainwir3ddoesn't help16:34
lainwir3dstill the same problem16:35
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lainwir3djust checked the z values of the current page, the pagestack, and the mousearea. They are respectively at 0, 0, 1000016:38
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kimmolikaltsi: ping. Could not connect to MerSDK vm... what were the spells you wanted me to cast now?16:44
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kaltsikimmoli: netstat in dos prompt16:50
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kaltsitry to see if there are lots of open connections to localhost or something... sorry I can't remember suitable options for netstat16:51
kimmolinow i was not able to ssh into it...16:51
kaltsinot even that? hmm16:51
kimmolinetstat didnt show any local connections16:51
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kimmolii did restart it already after netstatting, now there is [::1]:nnn to my hostname16:52
kaltsithat's on windows side?16:52
kimmoliyes16:52
kaltsihmm looks like ipv6 address..16:52
kimmolibut i'm sure last time i could ssh into it...16:53
kaltsiwell it was just something to check.. don't know what to expect16:53
kimmolinow it said ssh_exchange_identification: Connection closed by remote host16:53
kimmoliok, i will try again when this occurs next time16:53
kaltsithat might be some kind of a problem with the shared folders16:53
kaltsiif it can't read the ssh key via the shared folder16:54
kaltsiwhat would you say was the uptime for mersdk at that time?16:54
kimmoliöh, now it was about 1 hour16:55
kimmoliit has occured twice ain last 3 hours16:55
kaltsiahh.. ok shouldn't be about that then either16:55
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lainwir3dSK: well that was easy... I just had to put "preventStealing: true" on my mousearea....17:00
lainwir3di spent hours on that problem17:00
lainwir3dit seems like it's pretty much mandatory on drag style events17:00
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matrixxany idea why my app can write files into QStandardPaths::GeneralDataLocation, but not into QStandardPaths::DataLocation?18:17
matrixxthough I think it would be wiser to write to the latter one since my data is specific to my app18:17
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kaltsihave you created QStandardPaths::DataLocation?18:21
matrixxat least the path exists when I open the app18:21
matrixxand I have there one preinstalled file18:21
kaltsihow about its permissions?18:21
matrixxwell, I asked the path with QStandardPaths::writableLocation so I assume it should be writable18:22
matrixxsince it's my own apps storage, or am I assuming wrong?18:22
kaltsiNote: The storage location returned can be a directory that does not exist; i.e., it may need to be created by the system or the user.18:24
kaltsijust reading the docs.. I really don't know anything18:24
matrixxbut it is created18:24
kaltsibut did you create with the correct rights?18:24
matrixxhow can my app give itself write permissions?18:24
kaltsijust because it returns something doesn't mean it's correctly created18:25
matrixxwell, I didn't create itmyself per se18:25
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kaltsicould you check? can you access the device with ssh or fingerterm18:25
matrixxmy installer installs a file there and creates it18:25
matrixxI have it in INSTALLS in my pro18:25
kaltsicould you check, so we don't have to guess :)18:26
matrixxwell it's obvious I don't have the permissions there18:26
matrixxQFileDevice::WriteUser returns false18:26
kaltsihmm someone here must have solved this problem18:27
matrixxI guess QtCreator installs files with root permissions only by default18:27
matrixxbut I don't know how to customize permissions for files and folders in INSTALLS18:28
kaltsithat directory should not be in the RPM18:28
kaltsiif you want to get the app into harbour18:28
matrixxso I should remove it from yaml under "Files:"18:29
matrixx?18:29
kaltsiyes18:29
kaltsiyou'll need to create the directory from your app18:29
scharelI used QStandardPaths::DataLocation in an app and created the folder during runtime: QString storagePath = QStandardPaths::writableLocation(QStandardPaths::DataLocation);  QDir().mkpath(storagePath);18:29
matrixxhow about that one preinstalled file? do I need to first install it under my app dir and then create the folder and move it there?18:30
kaltsiwhat kind of a file is it?18:31
matrixxan xml18:31
kaltsiyou can't move it (running as user, installed as root)18:31
matrixxah, right, but that means also I can't update the file at runtime?18:32
matrixxI want to rewrite some changes to it later18:32
kaltsiyou might have to copy it from the /usr/share/appname/ to the datadir18:32
matrixxoh well, copy is ok too18:33
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kaltsibtw if you wanted it to be created with correct rights from the RPM, you can give %attr directive specifying the rights in the Files: section of yaml (or spec)18:34
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kaltsijust saying, but still it wouldn't get into harbour :)18:35
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matrixxthanks, I'm targeting harbour so it's not an option, but good to know anyway18:35
matrixxso I should sneak it under /usr/share/appname/ with my qml files and then copy to appropriate place18:36
kaltsihere are also some thoughts about that kind of data https://harbour.jolla.com/faq#2.5.018:36
matrixxsounds like a hack, but if none else will do :P18:36
kaltsiyou can have any subdirs under /usr/share/appname .. you could have /usr/share/appname/data/18:37
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matrixxkaltsi: thanks, that sounds like the way to go18:39
kaltsiif you haven't read the harbour faq, it's a good idea to browse through it.. you might catch something from there18:39
matrixxwill do :)18:39
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* tbr dons his devil's advocate hat19:23
Stskeepswhat's to be advocated? :P19:24
tbrStskeeps: I presume tomorrows meeting has been cancelled?19:24
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Stskeepshmmm, how so?19:25
Stskeeps(i'm not being ignorant here, looking in my mailbox)19:25
tbras I don't see an invitation nor agenda within that invitation19:25
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netzviehtbr: sorry my fault19:25
netzviehstill in my outbox19:25
tbrnetzvieh: no it's not, unless you suddenly are on jolla's payroll19:26
netzviehtbr: I told cybette I'll write it19:26
tbrthat changes things a bit19:26
Aardnetzvieh: can I make you work for me as well? :)19:27
tbr.oO(bilder in meinem kopf)19:27
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* Stskeeps should really have learnt german instead of french in highschool19:28
* tbr is slightly sorry for popping up and being a pain in the behind every time19:28
Stskeepsi personally appreciate it19:29
tbrI do believe I have a valid point, but if people feel I'm being unreasonable and will STFU, forever19:29
Stskeeps(and i guess professionally too, but i've just started a beer..)19:30
tbr:)19:30
Yanieltbr: the malevolent part of me likes your point19:30
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tbrwhile we are at nasty topics. I've posted a letter today, kindly asking Jolla to deliver source code DVDs for each and every firmware release that I could track down went public19:31
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tbrAs I guess that jope forgot that I asked for U5 and I wanted all of them anyway for public accessibility19:32
Stskeepsah good, now i have an excuse to back up those19:32
tbrgiven my newly found free time, I might even experiment with tracking changes and otherwise making those isos more accessible19:33
phdeswerStskeeps: German should come easy to you as I manage to understand some Danish19:34
Stskeepsphdeswer: yeah, it should, despite that, i once found myself unable to talk to a german taxi driver..19:34
Yanielit's generally easy to guess what someone is saying based on other languages19:34
* phdeswer should offer tbr a beer more often thinking of it19:34
Yanielbut saying something yourself? no19:34
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tbrphdeswer: I personally believe, Jolla could offer me a job that would pay for my beers, but that's a tangent.19:35
Aardtbr: how much beers do we need to pay you?19:35
YanielI once had to write a letter in swedish at school and had no idea how to write it, so I guessed based on german :D19:35
tbrAard: the general jolla sailor salary's worth19:36
Aardyou can't drink so much19:36
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Yanielapparently it ended up being something that would be more or less correct swedish... in the 1800s19:36
Stskeepschallenge accepted?19:36
Stskeeps:P19:36
tbrAard: barter economy FTW!19:36
Yanieldid you mean: bartender economy19:37
tbrAard: also working for jolla probably needs a unhealthy dose of alcoholism19:37
tbrYaniel: niiiice one!19:37
AardStskeeps: i propose we try it out, and see how he copes. I'll even throw in some of my own money to enjoy that :p19:37
Stskeepsi did not just talk about drinking beer19:37
Stskeeps:P19:37
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* tbr would love to see the finnish tax office receive a stack of beer crates marked "taxes"19:38
Stskeepsin .dk, there's "pant" on the crates19:39
Stskeepsat least plastic ones19:39
Stskeeps(pfant?)19:39
netzviehyaaay network died *grml*19:39
tbrin germany too19:39
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tbrin finland those crates are getting rare, but I think they also have a return value19:39
FireFlyYaniel: ...why would you have to write a letter in swedish for school?19:39
Yanielit was an assignment bach in high school19:40
Yanielback*19:40
AardStskeeps: I'd say we deliver the beer in the biggest container possible, and it needs to be returned for next months delivery19:40
kimmolitbr: you mean these ? https://app.younited.com/?shareObject=895ccfcb-0c48-ddd5-1c13-40e7653fc97319:40
tbrkimmoli: nice one, no, not familiar with these :D19:41
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gogeta_tbr ... BYOB Brew You Own Beer19:41
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* Stskeeps needs to head to bed19:44
Stskeepsbbl19:44
gogeta_night stskeeps19:45
netzviehah wait, only subscribers can send to devel-list?19:46
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netzviehthat'd explain why my mail isn't posted yet19:46
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netzviehmhh, now it'd be interesting what mail i used to subscribe to that list19:55
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phdeswernetzvieh: something arrived now19:57
netzviehahh there it is :)19:57
lbthah - someone just did a mailman review at the same time as me :)19:58
cybette;)20:00
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