Friday, 2014-09-05

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sabgentonif I want to use sailfish for commad line utills is there something like apt-get?04:08
sabgentonI'm assuming ubuntu has more commandline tools than sails fish having so many debian packages am I wrong?04:09
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zoldycksabgenton: Sailfish uses .rpm and the utility pkcon05:47
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tbrVDVsx: let me guess, for IDLE during standby you need to work  a iphb wakeup into the loop?. was quite easy with the mqtt code I hacked on, but wasn't exactly perfect, more like a hack.07:52
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VDVsxtbr, no but similar, via our keepalive apis, quite easy to do, atm working in other area so unfortunately no time to do that10:06
tbrVDVsx: sure, just curious :)10:06
VDVsxtbr, this one:
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VDVsxit uses ipbh plus the android wake locks stuff10:08
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tbrVDVsx: yeah, guessed that by the description, cool stuff. Useful for all use cases where it's not just enough to be woken up by iphb to send a keepalive on a connection, but you need the device to be really awake and do further processing and faster than glacial speed10:14
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ilpianistahi all, so I got my Jolla today! :-)12:20
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ilpianistabut it seems it doesn't support 802.1x I'm trying to setup it following this
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ilpianistawithout any result...where do I start?12:21
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tbrby looking at the logs12:24
ilpianistatbr: journalctl -u connman says nothing12:25
ilpianistaalso wpa_supplicant.log says nothing12:25
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ilpianistatbr: solved and I feel dumb12:28
ilpianistathere was a typo in the SSID12:28
tbrit's often those little things12:29
ilpianistatbr: uhm, the store doesn't work but Internet does, any idea?12:32
ilpianistaworks now...12:34
javispedrothat's the connman ready vs online thing that was mentioned in t.j.c I guess12:35
tbrmight have been a cached state or such12:35
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javispedroI've found it a few times that the store would refuse to work but the browser did12:36
tbroh, the infamous online state12:37
tbrnobody seems to use that on the desktop anymore12:37
tbrfirefox did for a while, but there were so many issues that they dropped it12:38
javispedromeh, soon systemd-network will provide a connectivity state and then everyone'll do it again12:40
javispedroin the meantime vote for that because it is annoying :)12:41
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tbrjavispedro: btw: I'm taking bets how long until someone comes up with a wireless charging pad that fits on your wrist and extends android watch battery life to something usable.12:51
javispedrowhat I dislike most re battery life is why isn't the metawatch/pebble/$otherReflectiveLCDWatch battery life more spectacular12:53
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javispedrothe gear2 is currently lasting me ~4days, with light use (it is connected to my jolla but I don't know how to forward notifications to it yet, so just syncing time)12:53
javispedrothe mw would last me ~7 or so days12:54
javispedroyes, the mw has always-on LCD... but... well12:54
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javispedroI expected more difference.12:54
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tbrjavispedro: it's a while since the meetup with the metawatch guys, but in the default case it seems the micro controller is the main thing12:55
javispedroobviously the 12h from the moto360 are ridiculous, probably because they went with a significantly smaller battery plus a generation-old omap312:55
javispedro(more than a generation old by now :( )12:55
Stskeepsprolly a surplus of omap3s12:55
javispedrotbr, one would think a msp430 with .. 16Mhz? would provide significant savings compared to a ... DualCore 1Ghz Qualcomm.12:56
javispedrotbr, so I suspect the problem is still bluetooth, basically.12:57
tbrit gets far worse if you do additional things like vibra, light or use the accelerometer12:57
tbrthe accelerometer has several modes though. if you program it for a pattern and have it send an interrupt, then it's moderate. if you keep reading a raw data stream then it blows super fast12:57
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javispedrotbr, I remember they switched accelerometer models in the gen2 metawatch, which contributed to the ~3days increase12:59
javispedrodespite the fact I don't think you could even turn the accelerometer on in the gen1 ones...12:59
tbryes, bt is also quite taxing12:59
* kimmoli likes my RW watch, no batteries included.12:59
tbrI'd be interested to see how much going from SPP to GATT gets you though13:00
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javispedrotbr, I suspect we won't see much difference in mw13:02
* tbr detex, kimmoli is totally oldsk00l13:02
javispedrotbr: btw I started the sailfish' sowatch
javispedroit'll be a rewrite because I'll use the gen2 UI (the one with the multiple builtin watchfaces and 4x4 grid of widgets13:04
javispedroand GATT13:04
javispedrothis reminds me...13:05
tbrjavispedro: \o/13:05
javispedroJonni, I assume your answer in means a future release is probably going to block session dbus eavesdropping?13:06
* tbr is hoping for something less radical, ACLs or such13:08
pp_lots of other stuff goes there too13:08
tbras listening for dbus events is very useful13:08
javispedromeh, I know how large the "security" banhammer is..13:09
pp_"any app" probably shouldn't have access to the dbus13:11
pp_at least if it's used for the things it is now :-)13:12
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Jonnijavispedro: answer means that we are aware of the problem, and fix might come on some unforseen future release :)13:14
javispedro<girly voice> maybe a bit more detail pleaaase ;)13:16
tbrJonni: yes, but if an app listens e.g. for notification events on dbus, like salmeta or the pebble app, there might be a problem13:16
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javispedroI'm not sure if you can "tear down" holes via installing /etc/* files if default is to lock eavesdropping13:17
javispedrobecause d-bus has no way of identifying clients...13:18
javispedro(not sure if UID would work in session d-bus)13:18
javispedroso blocking eavesdropping could be.. problematic.13:18
tbr#outcry #outrage #pitchforks #endoftheworld ;)13:18
javispedrocoderus, signals would always work though :)13:19
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javispedroobviously the proper solution is to add back mnotificationsink to lipstick13:21
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tbrmind you, I'm not a dbus expert, but isn't there something that could be used for that in the desktop world already? something that would handle ACLs and such13:22
pp_basically it's an af_unix socket that you either have access to, or you don't, right?13:23
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pp_and that has equivalents of naked celebrity pics transmitted over it, or it doesn't13:23
javispedrothe problem is that currently I think the only ACL that is applied to session d-bus is: is your $USER nemo? period13:23
javispedroand in fact without labels, etc. it would be hard to implement ACLs.13:24
javispedro*any other type of ACL13:24
javispedroso blocking all eavesdropping sounds like the only viable option.13:25
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javispedrowell obviously you could start having multiple buses, etc. but that sounds too complicated13:25
pp_apps could just poke around memory of other pids running as same user tho, getting the same result13:25
tbrpp_: that you'd probably cover by introducing separation on process level13:27
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javispedroI'm reading you can actually make ACLs based on gid too
javispedrothat opens the door to a "privileged" type solution13:28
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pp_pid per app, yes13:29
pp_err, uid13:29
javispedrosailfish already has nemo:nemo and nemo:privileged apps13:29
pp_in the end you'll reinvent selinux/whatnot badly, and you didn't want selinux in the first place13:30
Siddeor just use selinux13:31
javispedroah, the good old security in sailfish discussion.13:31
Siddeselinux is the future of the linux platform13:31
* SpeedEvil liked Aegis.13:31
SpeedEvil(in principle, if admined right)13:31
javispedroI guess Smack comes from the Aegis folks because many concepts seem similar13:32
Siddeit would not be that hard to make a selinux policy to every application13:32
javispedroI miss wildcards in smack though13:32
javispedroie you can't say "friggin_real_root" user has * permissions over * objects13:32
SpeedEvil(admined right would require of course the possibility of user-added stores with as much priviledge as the original)13:32
SpeedEvilerr - owner added13:33
pp_chatted to one of the aegis guys a while ago, he was proud except design flaw of relying on pathnames :-)13:33
tbrjavispedro: SMACK comes from the MSSF people, who were trying to do it right and learning from the aegis screwups13:34
SpeedEvilAegis screwups were mostly policy.13:35
javispedroSpeedEvil: I suspect "their" definition of screwups is opposite to ours :)13:35
SpeedEvilSomething like aegis was required for a mass market phone platform. The n9 as a sole model not promoted in all areas fell short of that ambition13:36
* SpeedEvil looks up SmaCK13:37
javispedrobut the big idea is generally that you apply a security label to each file13:39
javispedroif file is executable the label is applied to that process when you exec() that file13:39
javispedroand then you have a rules file with13:39
javispedrooops, phone call :)13:41
javispedro"source_label operations_that_are_allowed destination_label"13:42
javispedroso e.g. "dialer read+write modem"13:42
javispedrowhich obviously means that anything running under the dialer label can both read and write to any file under the modem label13:43
javispedroand like aegis some programs (d-bus daemon for example) are expected to help enforce the rules13:44
javispedroat the end I see selinux as "I have this complex interrelated platform and I want to close all those pesky holes" while I see smack as "I have these few general ideas let's enforce them"13:48
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SpeedEvilSo SMACK rulesets will generally be simpelr and rather easier to write13:48
javispedroseemingly so13:49
javispedrobut you'll also have less granularity13:49
SpeedEvilindeed - file based access doesn't quite cut it in many cases.13:49
javispedroit's not entirely file access, because IPC servers are expected to enforce the rules too13:50
SpeedEvilOf course - android seems to be going the other way13:50
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javispedroPossibly because Android already has a basic sandbox13:50
SpeedEvilmunging permissions together into massive heaps of them13:50
javispedroso they are at the "let's close the remaining small leaks" stage13:50
javispedrowhich is what selinux excels at (IMHO) finetuning daemon permissions, etc.13:51
javispedroyou mean the new google play "summarized" permissions :)13:51
SpeedEvilIs basically waht I was referring to - it doesn't help if the OS is secure, if the application can leak your phone number, ...13:52
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SpeedEvilAnd that 5/6 of the calculator apps on play have the permissions they need to scan your network at night and act as a proxy server back to china13:52
javispedrowell google doesn't really care about privacy13:53
javispedroso you get those weekly blog reports where someone has decided to start wireshark and noticed his phone sending all hi spersonal info 50 times per hour to random servers in china13:53
javispedros/in china//13:53
SpeedEvilGoogle has 'fixed' - for some value of fixed - apps that can be installed and do fundamental things to the phone that can't be undone by uninstalling them13:54
javispedrobasically most "sandboxes" in most OSes are designed to protect the operating system vendor -- not the user.13:54
javispedro(this famously includes Aegis :) )13:54
javispedroa glaring example for me is the one in Windows 813:55
SpeedEvilAegis/smack/...  with somewhat more permissions, and user-stores could in principle be good for the user too.13:55
javispedroto install an application in the sandboxed environment you need to have a MS developer certificate ($99)13:56
javispedroto install an application in the non-sandboxed environment all you need is to accept ONE "are you sure?" prompt13:56
javispedrothen the application can do everything it wants.13:56
javispedroso the entire purpose of the sandbox is to basically prevent software privacy, not protect you against random executables13:57
javispedrosoftware piracy (argh)13:57
javispedroso yeah, something great _could_ be made13:58
javispedroI just wish it doesn't impede in my usual "i just ssh on this thing and run stuff" workflow13:58
SpeedEvilthen there is the fun mac sandbox.13:58
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SpeedEvil'filesystem? naah - you don't want that.13:58
javispedrosimilarly to the win8 example, it is ridiculously hard to piracy mac sandbox programs ('recipes', etc.)14:00
javispedroand thus the sandbox's purpose, instead of allowing one to run untrusted binaries safely, becomes a way for apple to ensure they are the only distribution channel.14:02
tbryes, it was a layer-8 problem mostly14:02
tbrbig bang introduction very late in the process, etc14:02
tbror rather layer-9 (damagement)14:02
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javispedroI assume layer8 = PEBKAC? :)14:03
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javispedrobtw, how is gdbserver installed on sailfish? whenever you enable developer mode?14:13
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javispedroI realized at some point gdbserver was missing on mine and thus QtC debugging would fail (with a cryptic error ofc)14:13
javispedrodespite the fact I've been sshing and gdbing ever since I got it (and thus dev mode enabled)14:14
javispedro(gdb and gdbserver are separate packages)14:14
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coderusguys, your channel is awesome, i lost two days on ubuntu touch sdk channel with simple questions. nobody wants to answer me or answering "i dont know" "i dont using this" "this is working for me" :D14:18
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tbrquality stuff :)14:18
coderusmuch enthusiasts14:18
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m4g0gJolla has preinstalled Google plugin. Is it possible to add image share possibility to it (like in facebook)?14:26
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tbrm4g0g: the social plugins are now open source, so it is possible. If someone is going to step up and do it, is written on another page.14:57
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m4g0gI have experience with developing picasa client and want to add this to jolla google integration15:01
coderushow do you want to share something with google?15:04
coderusgoogle drive or what?15:04
m4g0gpicasa for images15:04
gexcis this a bug? ->
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coderusm4g0g: is it using same credentials as google?15:06
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m4g0gIn my application I use the same for drive and picasa, because there is no separete service Picasa in google api console15:09
coderusgexc: no it's not a bog of course15:09
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gexca feature then :P15:09
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gexcthe brighness or volume slider do change themselves if the values are changed elsewhere15:10
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coderusanswered in TJC BTW15:16
gexcjust launch another in the terminal15:18
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coderusexposing system settings to other views?15:19
coderuslearn to use your hacks properly15:19
coderusdont blame system15:19
gexchmm, I made a plugin for quick orientation lock
gexcand found that the slide does not update itself if the lock is changed in settings15:20
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gexcthe example of two instance of settings app is to avoid the 'somthing wrong with your app' situation15:22
gexcbtw, brighness and volume work fine with two instance of settings15:23
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gexcthought it should work since there is 'onOrientationLockChanged' LOL15:24
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coderusgexc: do you know what is backend for DisplaySettings? It's QSettings. Any questions why onSomethingChanged not working with QSettings?15:31
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coderusi hate so much "something wrong with your app" situation, when users trying to do anything extraordinary.15:32
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gexcnot quite understand, I'm a n00b LOL15:33
coderusQSettings is ini files15:34
coderusini tiles doesnt care if you opened it manually and changed15:34
gexcis onOrientationLockChanged different with onBrightnessChanged?15:35
gexcwhy is one executed while the other is not15:35
gexcif I replace 'onOrientationLockChanged' with 'onBrightnessChanged' in my qml file, the slide does update itself to show the current orientation lock after a brightness change15:37
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coderusbrightness is come from sysfs15:39
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coderusi can't understand you these things if your mind is stick to QML with a super glue15:40
coderusi mean i can't explain you15:40
gexcmaybe LOL15:41
* gexc is n00b15:41
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gexcwhere can I find the /system/osso/dsm/display/display_brightness thing15:43
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gexcso orientationLockChanged() is not emitted at all16:00
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coderusgexc: lol :D16:05
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coderusMitakuuluu v0.8.7 released with good changelog: check for updates!
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FloR707Hi, am I the only one who cannot sign into Harbour?20:07
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TumeezHow I can transfers all my information (People numbers, messages etc) Jolla to OnePlus One?20:18
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FloR707How can I open a link from within my app? I tried an regular html link but the browser is not reacting.20:55
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r0kk3rzdbus send url to browser21:25
FloR707Hmm I am really surprised that there is no build in QML function for that. For the dbus thing I need another c++ class…21:32
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FloR707That is nothing for tonight. CU21:33
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r0kk3rzthere is actually21:46
r0kk3rzseems pretty easy to use as well21:46
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coderusQt.openUrlExternally ofc.22:02
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