Tuesday, 2014-12-09

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sandsmarkhttps://together.jolla.com/question/7449/bug-media-player-cant-find-music-on-re-boot/ gaaaaaah01:41
sandsmarkbeidl: I'll read over it tomorrow, I should sleep now :)01:41
sandsmarkhmm, maybe tracker is launched before the sd card is mounted01:44
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phaeronsandsmark: that's a very old thread01:49
sandsmarkphaeron: still an issue, look at the comments01:49
phaeronsandsmark: and the sdcard is mounted only after tracker starts01:49
phaeronsandsmark: some of those people have a different problem ( the gsettings )01:49
sandsmarkphaeron: they still have issues after the default changed01:49
phaeronif you follow the dates most people have it fixed after doing the gsettings01:51
sandsmarkit seems like one or two people got it fixed after changing it?01:52
sandsmarkanywho, maybe I have a different issue01:53
sandsmarktracker seems to know that my music files are files (it has the basic metadata like size), just not any of the content01:53
sandsmarkthere's a lot of similar issues, btw, if you search, some of them are pretty recent01:54
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sandsmarkthis is a file stored on internal memory: http://pastie.org/pastes/9768963/text?key=v6ngphcsdpsahw3yrfug01:59
sandsmarkthis is on the SD card: http://pastie.org/pastes/9768964/text?key=cmzk5di9rpjydfwvufr97q01:59
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* sandsmark does the tracker-control -es-dance02:08
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m4g0gWhy does Text element have so awful rich text parser?06:06
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Nicd-m4g0g: ask the Qt developers?06:48
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m4g0gNicd-: good point~!07:05
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lpotterm4g0g: patches welcome :)07:16
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* soreau glances around a bit for unwanted jolla hardware07:20
* soreau wonders why jolla isn't one of America's Most Wanted07:22
meklutoo little relevance :>07:22
* soreau suddenly remembers that Nokia company thingy07:22
soreauThey sure sailed a fail whale07:23
* soreau *shrugs* What can you do but roll your own and wait for them to Want it? ;)07:24
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soreauor realize the hard facts of truth and ignore them like they always do, whichever07:25
soreauAre there any jolla emulators? *googles*07:26
tbrsoreau: yes, there is a vbox image07:27
soreautbr: shweet, thanks07:27
tbrsoreau: comes as part of the SDK, but it comes without all the apps07:27
soreauhm, ok07:27
tbryou can compile and install apps of course, many apps are open source07:28
meklunot quite as fun to play with, didn't manage to install my daemon thing in the VM but only on the actual device07:28
mekluthen again I used a different deployment method07:29
mekluRPM on the device, some magical copying on the VM07:29
mekluwhich I couldn't figure out how to include that binary in07:29
m4g0gText element removes empty lines from text. Is it a way to fix this?07:29
m4g0gIs there*07:29
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mekluhmm, maybe play around with the wrapping?07:30
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soreautbr: Is the toolchain basically the traditional linux glibc gcc etc?07:39
tbrsoreau: correct, comes in a second VM with the SDK07:40
soreautbr: Thanks for the tips07:40
tbrthere's also build.merproject.org07:40
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soreauoh goodness, Mir and Mer. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?07:43
StskeepsMer came first :P07:43
Stskeepsand no Mir involved. Wayland.07:43
Nicd-soreau: Mir has nothing to do with Mer07:44
soreauNicd-: I know, it's just the typical confusingly named FOSS project scheme07:44
soreauStskeeps: I know :)07:45
* soreau guesses some of his wayland contributions might be running on jolla07:45
Stskeepsprobably, if merged in 1.3.007:46
soreau(whenever that happened)07:49
* soreau doesn't understand why ohloh/blackduck is so slow07:51
stephgmorning chaps and chapesses07:51
soreaumaybe the world is still getting ddos'd :P07:51
soreauMy work was mostly 2012 and beginning of 201307:52
mekluoctober 2013 apparently07:52
mekluwas when 1.3.0 was released07:52
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soreaubut also primarily focused on weston07:53
soreauDoes this link work for anyone else? https://www.openhub.net/p/wayland/contributors?sort=latest_commit&time_span=48+months07:54
* soreau can't seem to get it to load07:54
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stephgsoreau: it's slow07:54
mekluseems to take ages07:54
soreaubut works?07:54
stephgnot yet07:54
meklunot sure yet07:55
soreausame here07:55
soreauthere it goes07:55
mekluwell, now it's loaded07:55
* soreau waits for the oreau filter :P07:55
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soreaumorning Sfiet_Konstantin07:57
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: does the Jolla kernel have SELinux enabled ?07:57
Sfiet_Konstantinmorning soreau07:57
soreauplease say no SELinux :P07:57
tbrSfiet_Konstantin: don't think so07:57
Sfiet_Konstantinsoreau: I'm trying to see how to have a privacy-enabled SailfishOS07:57
soreauhack it07:58
Sfiet_KonstantinSELinux is in my checklist, that's all07:58
Sfiet_Konstantinprivacy != not-hackable07:58
Sfiet_Konstantinand hacker-friendly privacy enabled device is hard07:58
soreauto your level of standard 'privacy-enabled'07:58
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat I'm trying to do07:58
soreausecurity is mostly a waste of time07:58
* soreau hides07:58
StskeepsSfiet_Konstantin: talk to special07:58
Sfiet_Konstantinbut these LXC / cgroups / namespaces things won't do it07:59
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: ok :)07:59
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pp_"random app can't access my home porn" is perfectly valid07:59
Sfiet_KonstantinStskeeps: isn't Jonni responsible of this too ?07:59
Sfiet_Konstantinpp_: same but replace home porn by contacts info07:59
soreaupp_: heh08:00
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stephgSfiet_Konstantin: btw I have a package list of sorts in this format atm: http://pastie.org/976938008:00
Sfiet_Konstantinmeh, SELinux and Smack are so overkill :(08:00
Sfiet_Konstantinstephg: haha, nice :)08:01
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stephgmerging the URLs in is trivial, matching to actual RPMs on-device is tedious ;)08:01
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stephgSK_work: fwiw the whole list: https://paste.kde.org/pkgpo3pbc08:14
* tbr idly ponders if Mer should start using XSPF08:17
tbrIIRC OBS supports it08:17
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netvandalmorning all08:22
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netvandalI have a question : I can successfully call a c++ method from qml, but how can i keep the method running while user navigate out of the page that started the method? I need to initialize a download in the current page and keep it going even if user keep navigating thought the app..08:25
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soreauThe magnifying slider implementation is pretty neat https://www.openhub.net/p/wayland/contributors/132542690764289108:34
soreaubut only seems to work in chrome-based browsers.. in ff, it doesn't here08:35
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SK_worknetvandal: you use a signal & slot08:49
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netvandalSK_work: is what i'm using, but my method exit when i change app page09:08
SK_worknetvandal: did you created the object in the page ?09:08
SK_workif so, consider creating in main page09:09
netvandalSK_work: i'll check09:10
netvandalthank you09:12
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coderusm4g0g: :D09:47
coderusm4g0g: text.replace(/\n/g, "<br/>") should work imo09:49
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WntSfiet_Konstantin: there is a good amount of security info about Sailfish OS in this presentation: http://matasano.com/research/eko2014_jolla.pdf09:53
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Wntsee page 25 for example09:54
zGrrmoin :)09:54
SK_workSfiet_Konstantin has been replaced by SK_work09:58
SK_workWnt: I have read this10:00
SK_workwhat I'm currently trying to do is more about isolation10:00
SK_workabout harmful apps stays contained10:00
SK_workas it is close to impossible for any QA to check if the app don't dial a C&C server somewhere between china and russia10:00
WntSK_work: then you should only run binaries you have compiled yourself ;)10:01
SK_workWnt: SailfishOS claims to protect privacy10:04
SK_workbut it do not10:04
SK_workand some people won't just compile their own binaries10:04
SK_workso, basically, I want to work a bit in this domain10:05
phdeswerSK_work: what is a C&C server?10:05
Armadillocommand and control10:06
Nicd-command & conquer ;)10:06
SK_workit's not a command & conquers server10:06
SK_workeven if I would prefer :)10:06
Armadilloa server to orchestrate for example DDoS attacks10:06
SK_workit can be a C&C or anything else, like a server that stores personnal data in order to send spam etc10:06
zuttoSK_work: how do you intend to make sure that the application doesnt create any connections to locations you dont want it to?10:07
zuttovalidate every IP it connects with the user?10:07
SK_workzutto: well, that would be complicated, but it is more about controlling the data the user have access to10:07
SK_workat least don't allow personnal data to get out10:07
phdeswerNicd-: same thing came up in my mind :)10:07
zuttoyou can probably do that with some silly chroot hacks10:08
phdeswerSK_work: so the dialing is not actually dialing (phone) but using data connections right?10:08
zuttometaphorical dialing :P10:09
Armadillowell the app could also dial, like that malware which forwards expensive calls to foreign countries10:09
zuttoi'm not sure how jolla deals with users and usergroups, but you could limit access to every app with those too10:09
zuttoArmadillo: yeah, like those tsunami donation lines that charge $2k per call :P10:10
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phdeswerWell there are several basic options you could start with. Like blocking outgoing/incoming ports with iptables. Would be nice to have a firewalling app that checks outgoing connections from apps and asks for permission.10:10
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Armadillois this possible an a per app basis?10:11
zuttoArmadillo: if you write a launcher, you can do some ld preload hacks10:11
zuttowith launcher i mean something that just launches the applications10:11
zuttobut verifying each connection is tedious task for the user10:12
zuttoand how would the user even verify all the connections10:12
Armadillothe problem is, if there's one app, for exmaple Friends, which connects via port 80 to external sources and port 80 is allowed this could be used by the malware, too10:12
zuttoeven if you know the IP, its not always easy to figure out where it connects.. if its plain ol' rest api for example, it might go trought cloudflare or some other similar service10:13
Armadillosure you could limit it to some facebook urls, but as iptables work on IP base, this would cause some troubles if facebook changes some things10:13
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zuttoiptables is good for blocking, not for giving user option to prevent something10:14
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zuttothats why the ld_preload hack would be great, you can set up passtrought for every socket opened by the application that can filter anything.. and add iptables entries to services the user doesnt want it to connect :P10:14
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zuttomany ways to harden10:17
zuttobut without sacrificing the user friendlyness, its not that great idea10:17
daitheflusounds like you'd need some API ACL here10:20
daithefluSK_work ^10:21
SK_workAPI ACL ?10:23
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zuttoaccess control list10:24
daithefluSK_work: I'll try to explain clearly :)10:26
mekluLD_PRELOAD hacks aren't exactly the greatest idea10:26
mekluthey require the application to use your standard libdl :P10:26
daithefluwhen an app uses some API calls (i.e. dialer, access to contact list, ...), this should be detected10:27
mekluand not load the symbols at run-time via dlsym/dlopen10:27
daithefluthe system should then ask the user if it's OK10:27
meklu(those are a pain to override)10:27
zuttomeklu: not a greatest idea, but its one to look into :P10:28
mekluif someone wants to do malicious things, you should not rely on a somewhat random environment variable to work :P10:28
zuttoprobably the best would be proper user&usergroup control and chroot environments10:28
daithefluif it is, we could add an entry in the ACL for this API call that says : this app is authorized to use this10:28
daithefluuser should be able to also revoke a granted access (I don't want this app to be able to do this anymore)10:30
SK_workzutto: how would you do this ?10:31
mekluthe chroot stuff would be pretty painful10:32
mekluand you probably want some applications to be able to access your media10:32
meklusideloading those via e.g. some horrid base64 dbus mess doesn't sound very inviting10:32
SK_workI do wonder how polkit could behave here10:33
SK_workTizen is using smack10:34
SK_workbut just like SELinux, it looks horribly painful to use10:34
SK_workhow is BB10 securing stuff ?10:34
daithefluSK_work: if you're interested by the iOS approach : https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Security/Conceptual/AppSandboxDesignGuide/AboutAppSandbox/AboutAppSandbox.html10:35
daithefluI don't know what's doable or not with a Linux kernel, so I'm going to shut up from now on :)10:37
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Nokius1tbr: are you busy atm or can I bother you with a question?10:59
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tbrNokius1: just ask11:02
Nokius1:) okay11:02
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Nokius1I branched libgato on obs and salmeta and set the build environment (repo to but how I made a repo which includes the libgato to build salmeta. is it possible via the WebUI?11:06
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Nokius1okay self answerd have to use the full project path11:07
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tbryou need to edit one of the meta files through web ui11:08
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Nokius1tbr: so looks like the obs branch is in correct got a salmeta build https://build.merproject.org/package/show/home:Nokius:branches:home:javispedro:salmeta/salmeta11:11
mekluwhat is this, OS 9?11:12
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mekluso many colons in that uri11:12
tbrthat's Update 911:13
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tbrNokius1: now install it and try it out11:13
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Nokius1tbr: mh wondering where I can grep it repo….. is not there :-/11:19
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Nc_Probably a stupid question, but is there a way to get multi-finger input in QML on Jolla??11:21
tbrNokius1: publishing is disabled, turn it on11:21
tbrNokius1: in both projects11:21
tbrNokius1: https://build.merproject.org/package/repositories/home:Nokius:branches:home:javispedro:salmeta/salmeta - oben rechts11:21
tbrlbt: is that some weird default on newer OBS to disable publishing on a branched project?11:22
lbttbr: dunno - I would just branch a project and see :)11:23
tbrlbt: It happens to me every time and now it happened to Nokius1, hence me asking11:23
* lbt is tending to "yes" then11:24
tbrok, then the question is: does this make sense for us and should it be changed?11:24
lbtI've never seen any options relating to it11:24
lbtit doesn't (IMHO) make sense though11:24
Nokius1tbr: so salmeta shows a UI11:25
Nokius1watch is charging11:25
lbttbr: https://build.merproject.org/project/meta/home:lbt:branches:home:javispedro:salmeta11:26
lbtso yes, looks like publish is disabled on a branch11:26
tbrlbt: ok, should we poke #opensuse-buildservice about it then?11:27
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* tbr just did11:29
lbtI'd check the change logs too11:29
tbryou'll know better where to find those. I'm just a (l)user of OBS nowadays. My instances are long gone.11:29
kenguwhere did the instances go11:30
Nokius1tbr: watch freezy will have launch first and will try my luck than11:32
tbrone was pretty cool, it was able to build for Maemo and Meego11:32
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Nokiustbr it works :)11:57
Nokiustbr: still not caring if the watch is parred with the Phone :D11:58
tbrNokius: there is no reason to pair it specifically on a BT-LE level.11:59
tbrNokius: IIRC the security feature in this case is that once paired the watch will only talk to the same mac address. (Yes it doesn't get you encryption or cryptographic authentication, not sure if those are in BT-LE anyway)12:00
Nokiusoh the Cover function is cool :D12:02
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Nokiushm incamming call is not shown on the watch12:05
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xavinuxgood day people12:40
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netvandalguys, i found a small bug in the silica docs, where i should report?13:36
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lbtnetvandal: t.j.c.13:43
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netvandallbt: ok13:46
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SK_worknetvandal: send in ML ?13:49
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fluxis the source of any Sailfish XBMC remote controller available? Both the current ones have issues/lack of features :/15:55
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fluxruori seems more promising, but I don't think it's available15:55
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SK_workping Jonni + special about "security" on SailfishOS (per extension, on Nemo etc)16:45
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beidlSK_work: count me in16:46
SK_workbeidl: just trying to gather info on what has been done Jolla-side16:47
SK_workif there have been prospection etc.16:47
beidlok, great16:47
SK_workI read about LXC / namespaces / cgroups / SMACK and found out that everything is a mess, and nothing really suits us16:48
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pp_SK_work: looking at various githubs they're at least tightening up the d-bus stuf17:42
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SK_workpp_: dbus stuff ?17:43
SK_workaren't they just making it run faster and concurrently ?17:44
pp_I saw some priviledge related patches, didn't look at details tho17:44
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M4rtinK_jolla_kdbus FTW ! ;-)17:46
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M4rtinK_jolla_well, not gonna happen with the outdated Android kernels :)17:46
SK_workI do wonder what kdbus will bring ?17:47
SK_workmore overhead on kernel side ?17:47
M4rtinK_jolla_should be less overhead actually17:48
M4rtinK_jolla_due to less context switching per message17:48
M4rtinK_jolla_also zero copy data transfers and some security improvements17:49
SK_workbut I would say: DBus in kernel, WTF, it is just like systemd, contrary to unix principle bla bla bla #troll17:49
SK_workha ! that's interesting17:49
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M4rtinK_jolla_one of the aims is to use the zerocopy transfers for sandboxing17:50
M4rtinK_jolla_as it makes it possible to pass GBs of data over DBUS easilly17:51
M4rtinK_jolla_think like running photoshop or a steam game in a sandbox17:51
M4rtinK_jolla_and sending all data only over DBUS gateways17:52
M4rtinK_jolla_etc :)17:52
M4rtinK_jolla_quite interesting ideas actually :)17:52
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SK_workbasically dbus is like a sort of input method17:53
SK_workor communication method17:53
SK_workisc (inter sandbox communication)17:54
beidlI wonder if kdbus could be able to compile on the Jolla 3.4 kernel17:55
SK_workI would like to compile SELinux support too17:55
beidlneed to check how the kernel API has changed from when kdbus was started17:55
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specialSK_work: beidl: I have just recently started researching security frameworks18:13
special(for sailfish)18:13
specialmore details to come, but at the moment the most significant part of that is researching and prototyping use of selinux18:14
beidlspecial: SELinux <318:14
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SK_workspecial: mind sharing your research with us at some point ?18:15
SK_work(blog psot ?)18:15
specialmy intent is to end up with an implementation plan, and make that public18:15
specialat the moment it's closer to me playing around with selinux18:16
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beidlin case someone doesn't know about selinux, here's probably the best resource about it on the planet: https://people.redhat.com/duffy/selinux/selinux-coloring-book_A4-Stapled.pdf18:17
specialhah, yes. I had forgotten about that18:17
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beidlI wonder though how setting up application-specific selinux-policed filesystem structure (/usr/share/, ~/.config/) is going to get handled, post-install18:19
specialmy theory is that we should approach it incrementally; starting with getting selinux working and using it for system-level and service-level things18:19
specialand work from there to figure out how to wrap applications18:19
beidlmakes sense, bottom-up18:19
speciallonger term, I am strongly in favor of sandboxes and namespacing for applications18:20
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specialthis may be controversial :>18:21
sandsmarkis it allowed to link against the maliit stuff, so that we can ship a keyboard in harbour?18:21
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beidlspecial: well, it certainly seems needed in a multi-user world where installing one app on one user doesn't cause  it to show up on another user18:22
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djselbeckDoes anybody knows if it is ok for an application to read $HOME/.config/user-dirs.dirs and $HOME/.cache/media-art if I want to submit it to harbor?18:43
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coderusdjselbeck: you can read anything you need18:59
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djselbeckcoderus: perfect, thanks. Then I think my application might after all be compliant to harbor (after including .so files)19:00
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* lbt offers a belated +1 to special's selinux proposal21:50
specialI'm slightly surprised21:50
specialI expected more people to fight on selinux; too complex, etc21:50
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Aardspecial: oh, we didn't start yet :p21:53
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specialI'm starting to see how much of a pain it will be ;)21:53
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gogetaspecial, selinux is not complex if rules are corectly and sanelly written21:54
specialI agree.21:54
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beidlthat's where the coloring book kicks in, for those who do not yet completely get the idea21:56
gogetai've printed that21:57
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gogetaand once a customers yelling agaistn selinux21:57
gogetaI show it to them21:57
gogetabeidl, but sometimes are 3rd parties software21:57
gogetalike oracle and SAP21:57
gogetato create headcaches21:57
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beidlI'd say of course since rhel and sailfishos are two different beasts :)21:58
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gogetaubuntu use apparmor differe approach21:59
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beidlyup, and that's only working for security on the filesystem level22:00
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mhall119apparmor can mediate dbus calls too, IIRC22:08
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sandsmarkpvuorela: yo, are you online?22:16
beidlmhall119: well, yes, and systemd also has some integration with apparmor. but it inherently doesn't handle process contexts and types the way SELinux does22:16
sandsmarkpvuorela: we're trying to write a maliit keyboard, using c++ and qml, but our QQuickView is always positioned at (0,0) on screen22:16
sandsmarkeven when setting proper coordinates with setGeometry()22:17
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coderusem. why not to use transparent fullscreen and release events if not on keyboard?22:21
sandsmarkcoderus: we're trying that as well22:26
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sandsmarkpvuorela: never mind, got it to work :D22:45
sandsmarkme and saidinesh5 (well, mostly him) just got his keyboard working on sailfishos: http://home.samfundet.no/~sandsmark/20141209_234247.mp4 :D22:51
coderusomg, its vertical video?22:51
coderusthumbs up for swype-like keyboard :)22:52
sandsmarkblame the phone form factor22:52
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coderusdont blame phone22:54
satmdblame ergonomics and human body architecture?22:55
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coderusblame cameraman :D22:55
coderusit always hurt eyes to watch vertical videos22:55
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coderusi dont want to rotate my laptop :D22:56
sandsmarkit was enough of a PITA to just record that video without losing focus22:56
coderus720p is enough even if you recording some vertical stuff22:56
coderusloosing focus22:56
coderussad story for end 201422:57
coderusin 2008 it was ok to record videos with no focus :)22:57
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phaeronsandsmark: saidinesh5 cool stuff23:02
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phaeronis it based on maliit ?23:04
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saidinesh5just got the maliit plugin to work23:05
phaeronwhen can we expect a PR :)23:05
saidinesh5heh im hopinng an alpha version would be by the end of this month23:05
phaerongood luck :)23:05
saidinesh5thanks! :)23:06
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ulvushi again23:15
ulvuscoderus, can 10 euro pay for 2 hour of sailfish coding from you, to the sailfish os community. have seen you igg.me and profiles23:17
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