Thursday, 2014-12-18

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jcbjoe_ryukafalz: you alive ?02:15
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nykacis there a list of phones that sailfish has been ported to?02:28
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salyavinAs Ubuntu Touch also uses libhybris it applies to them too.02:59
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ryukafalzryukafalz: yep, but studying for finals :P03:27
ryukafalzI just highlighted myself O.o03:28
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Accemaybe you needed to remind yourself to study and not to IRC! :)07:46
mekluthere's always time for more IRC!07:46
meklu(except when there isn't)07:46
meklu15% of the time, it works 100% of the time!07:47
Tegudo both at the same time! and end up jus IRCing07:47
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walokravote for better harbour:
Armadilloalready done11:18
walokrait's quite tedious to gather app stats manually for graphs :)11:19
locusfdid you take the numbers daily ? :)11:23
walokranot quite, about every other day11:23
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mekluhmm, is there a gpg agent for sailfish?12:23
* meklu is slowly making some sort of file upload/dump system12:24
muppisBased on which protocol?12:25
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mekluthe agent or the file nonsense?12:26
mekluthe file dumper is going to be a custom-built binary protocol over tcp12:26
meklugoing to make some cli utilities first12:26
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muppisI'd like to see somekind of sharing plugin using scp. Planned to do it by myself, but hard to find time to focus on it.12:28
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mekluthat'd be rather neat too12:29
mekluthis is something I'm doing just for the heck of it™12:29
mekluI'll at least intend to make it usable for me ;)12:29
mekluthis time around I'll have to roll a real client too!12:30
mekluunlike with my URL shortener12:30
muppisI'd liked N900's Command line sharing and I'd like to do something like that.12:30
meklumy use-case is just plopping a random file onto a server and then maybe getting a URL or a few out of it12:31
meklulike sharing some image or something and getting some URL on the clipboard which doesn't necessarily even have the same basename on the file12:32
muppisSounds cool too.12:33
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coderusNew RandomKeypad patch:
SK_workcoderus: looks weired13:25
meklulooks neat13:25
SK_worknot even sure if it is more secure13:25
SK_workDescription: patch to prevent you to drunk-text13:25
meklusomeone overlooking you input the code is probably less likely to remember it13:25
mekluit's not like that's going to deter any software-based breach :>13:26
SK_workmeklu: true13:26
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coderusSK_work: it's more secure than maze and default keypad :)13:50
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SK_workcoderus: it is also more tedious to use ?13:55
SK_workdon't know13:55
SK_workof course you won't have difference in fingerprint density on your screen13:56
pvuorelanot that more secure if owner needs to type slowly.13:56
stephgafternoon guys13:56
Stskeepsafternoon stephg13:56
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coderuspvuorela: don't worry, i will release many other lock medotd for any taste :)13:57
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kimmolicoderus: one with acceleration sensor as input? (siika-lock)14:02
kimmolicustomized unlock-audio-effects?14:03
coderuskimmoli: you mean alarm when someone write wrong code in your device? :)14:07
coderusacceleration like in symbian?14:07
Accelike you have to wave your hand with correct frequency to unlock?14:08
kimmolino. Just to play some tune if successfully unlocked14:09
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kimmoliand no^2, make the numbers float randomly on screen and you need to catch them in correct order14:10
kimmoliplay siika and you'll know ;)14:10
Acceah :D14:10
locusfkahen kilon siika!14:11
kimmolitry to play siika intoxicated ...14:11
kimmoliand its not even friday...14:12
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coderusoops update10 here:
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jcbjoedoes that mean its going to the nexus4 soon ?15:09
Armadillowhat a changelog...15:11
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Nokius_Where is my Phone?!15:12
ArmadilloImprovements to Owncloud CalDav support15:18
Armadillothat sounds good15:18
VDVsxArmadillo, patches from community contributor15:18
till-strange, my jolla doesn't show an update15:19
kontio_till-: first ones first...15:20
till-i'm a first one15:20
till-even wearing the t-shirt right now15:20
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kontio_ok but still then it should be available soonish when you check by hand for updates15:21
till-i'm doing that every five seconds, guess i just have to wait..15:22
Armadillosoon™ >.<15:22
xfade_till-: Which OS version are you running?15:23
till-opt-in update 915:23
xfade_Right, patience then ;)15:23
xfade_That is the next round :)15:23
till-okay :)15:23
Armadillowhat's the definition of a "round"? :D15:24
xfade_Armadillo: config entry and a mouse click ;)15:24
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Armadillois there any known issue with the TextSwitch element where the description exceeds the bottom element border?15:25
Armadillodamn have to go, see ya later15:26
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xfade_till-: try your luck again, it might work ;)15:34
till-yes it does :)15:34
okucheck for updates....still no :(15:37
okui'm glad they released the update before holidays as the update9 is uselees :/15:38
till-actually I found update9 quite useful15:38
okuit's stable as windows me15:38
SK_worku9 improves stuff, but breaks other15:39
SK_workIIRC network stack is rather good on u915:39
SK_workhope it is better on u1015:39
till-and the browser got better15:39
okuif they'd delayed the update, i would have reset the phone15:40
okubut i'm glad i don't have to15:40
oku...well haven't tried the update yet so can't really tell ;)15:40
till-i've got almost 75% of the download.. :)15:41
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tigeliSK_work: it is15:41
tigeliSK_work: still fixes coming in u11 ;)15:41
okudon't do everything today so you'll have something to do tomorrow :P15:42
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cos-hmm, updater doesn't find u10 for some reason.. should it be available for everyone?15:45
xfade_cos-: no, first ones first15:47
anandrkrisfirst ones first? based on when device was bought?15:47
xfade_anandrkris: owners of the first one TOH15:48
fluxcrowdfunding vs later I suppose15:48
coderustigeli: repair options in recovery fixed in u10?15:48
coderusJonni: ^15:48
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anandrkrisxfade_: hmm, we can expect in few hours i suppose15:50
* anandrkris i hope it was not a Joke15:51
xfade_anandrkris: yes15:51
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anandrkrisMy version is Sailfish Version is still disabled repos in openrepos15:53
anandrkrisits not needed..Right? (for the update i meant)15:53
coderusanandrkris: not needed :)15:54
anandrkriscoderus: cool, i erred on the safer side15:54
coderusall user repos are automatically disabled before ssu upgrade15:54
coderusanandrkris: sure, it's better to be live paranoic than be dead paranoic, right?15:54
anandrkriscoderus: ha ha...true15:55
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Nokius_Hi I just played with the new lock function and I had the possibility to set Numpad when the fullkeyboard was enabled16:22
Nokius_no if I press on numpad again it will have the code but I can only time numbers :)16:23
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Nokius_any way to help me?16:25
tbrNokius_: hmm? after reboot too?16:29
sledgescoderus: ^16:31
Nokius_did try to reboot16:31
Nokius_I don't have any patches16:31
Nokius_tbr: have no intresst to lock me out again :)16:31
Nokius_not sure if its a bug16:32
xfade_Nokius_: go to settings -> device lock and enable the 'numeric keypad' option?16:32
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Nokius_xfade_: yes I did this (and I had a alphabetic code)16:33
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Nokius_when I now click on the numberic keypad option it ask for the "pin code" but I have a "alphabetic code"16:34
xfade_Nokius_: type your alpha code there16:34
xfade_It doesn't allow you to enable numeric keypad when you have an alpha code set.16:35
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Nokius_xfade_: how I can only typ numbers16:36
Nokius_xfade_: I know but I was possible to enable it16:36
xfade_Nokius_: Try your previous pin code.16:36
xfade_Pretty sure you didn't set your alpha code16:36
Nokius_I did several times16:37
Nokius_Is the a log? to check?16:37
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giucamgiven you're not locked out you probably can do something on the command line to change/reset the lock code16:40
giucamJonni: ↑16:40
Nokius_luckly the device has the new if charge funcfion enable and ssh is on :)16:41
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* louisdk is still waiting for u10. Currently on u8 and my Jolla is wearing the first one toh.16:42
xfade_louisdk: Maybe you're not trying hard enough ;)16:45
sledgesNokius_: /usr/lib/qt5/plugins/devicelock/encpartition --clear-code 1234516:49
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louisdkxfade_, I don't think it'll help to press the "Check for updates" any harder :P16:50
Nokius_sledges: mh done16:53
sledgesNokius_: did it work?16:53
Nokius_sledges: still ask for a code I guess it has not to do so ?16:54
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sledgesNokius_: and you replaced 12345 with your code surely..?16:56
Nokius_yes I did was julius and boom is gone so I was able to get the numpad when i had a aplapetic code16:57
xfade_louisdk: But did you? :)16:58
Nokius_sorry tried first the old pin and 12345 :P16:58
sledgesdid you try julius on UI?16:58
Nokius_sledges: there was only the numpad I was only able to time in numbers not alphabetic carectars16:59
sledgesNokius_: interesting16:59
sledgesNokius_: reproducible?16:59
Nokius_i will try have to get a camera :)17:00
louisdkxfade_, I have manually checked for updates multiple times yes :)17:00
xfade_louisdk: but did you do that now? :)17:01
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louisdkxfade_, yes still no update.17:03
Nokius_sledges: YES!17:04
Nokius_give me a sec will uplode the video17:04
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sledgesNokius_: cool17:10
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Nokius_sledges: sorry slow upload17:16
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xfade_OS update now also available for u9 opt-in group17:17
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Nokius_sledges: and sorry its a MOV17:17
sledgesNokius_: you could just write out steps how to do it here17:17
Accexfade_: thanks for the info :D17:18
sledgeswill reproduce and needs to be raised with TJC and whatnot afterwards17:18
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Nokius_sledges: see the DM17:21
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Nokius_sledges: also when I set a number pin I was not able to select the option17:25
coderusNokius_: you can't clear you pin?17:26
Nokius_coderus: thanks I got help :)17:27
coderusNokius_: mind share solution?17:27
Nokius_coderus: sure its in backlog :)17:28
Nokius_let me check17:28
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coderusyou just didnt write "it solved!" :D17:29
Nokius_coderus: the problem is still there :) but I reseted the code :)17:29
coderusNokius_: problem so you have only keypad active and can't use alphanumeric input?17:30
Nokius_sledges: video is okay? hope so was quick one17:30
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Nokius_coderus: yeap the "problem" is that I was able to active numpad option when I had a alphabetic code17:32
sledgesNokius_: i don't see the reproduction in the video (the one where yo would need to clear it via cmdline)17:34
sledgesall works fine in that vid17:34
sledgesit says numeric keypad can be activated when code is made of only numbers17:35
Nokius_sledges: but I had set a 1:42 ah code and not a pin code17:36
Nokius_and then I was able to select the option17:37
sledgesNokius_: ok understood17:38
sledgesand what happened next? ;)17:38
sledgesis when it asked to enter old code, you had only digits, instead of kbd and couldn't unlock?17:38
sledgesbecause video ends at that point17:38
Nokius_I had to reset it via cli17:38
Nokius_sledges: sorry missed to clieck reset option17:39
louisdkThis update seems to take a looong time installing :P17:40
Nokius_sledges: new vid is on the way17:41
sledgesNokius_: is ok, im getting the steps to repro from your current vid17:41
sledgeshow many times do you have to change numeric<->alphanumeric until it explodes?17:42
sledgesNokius_: ^17:42
Nokius_oh not so gut noicy from downtown17:42
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dpurgindid someone already test the harbour-callrecorder with update10? I didn't have a chance yet, it is being downloaded really slowly17:44
coderusdpurgin: test what? using it every day and it's just working.17:44
dpurginI mean the update10 that was released a couple of hours ago17:45
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sledgescoderus: Nokius_ is just changing numeric<->alphanum couple of times, final time sets to alphanum (Numeric keypad is not pressable), then exits the devicelock page, enters it again, (numeric keypad is not pressable), changes code to numeric -> numeric keypad still not pressable(!first bug) -> changes to alphanum -> numeric keypad pressable (!bugs on)17:46
sledgescoderus: did you reproduce it, if yes, in any easier way?17:47
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coderussledges: no i can't reproduce it17:47
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sledgescoderus: ok17:47
coderusi think it's better to locate systemsettings config and change code_current_is_digit_only manually17:47
sledgestry method above, i'll report internally17:48
sledges19:42 < Nokius_> oh not so gut noicy from downtown17:48
Nokius_sounds like the WWII bomb is blown the found them earlier today thanks to this bug I was not around there has to pass this area to get a letter dropped.17:50
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Nokius_better vid is uploaded17:51
coderussledges: numeric still not pressable reproduced17:52
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sledgescoderus: with exiting/entering page?17:53
coderussledges: yes17:53
sledgesok that's the trick then, reporting bug, wonder how many would trip on this17:54
sledgesthanks Nokius_ for finding it!17:54
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coderussledges: now i pressed numad many times and finally i can't uncheck it17:55
coderusnumpad* switch17:55
Nokius_this time without leaving the settingpage17:55
Nokius_damn  no vid17:55
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Nokius_sledges: ^17:56
sledgesso shorter way to repro is to click numpad like mad?17:57
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Nokius_yes but no vid wait aaarr sec time is was not rercodring17:58
sledgesi can't repro as my phone is with numcode i can't remember setting (maybe some nasty friends, good they set unlimited tries and "Not in use" :D)17:58
coderussledges: and finally i enabled numpad sswitch when alphanum code set :D17:59
coderussledges: numpad switch schange to enabled and then(!) description changed to "you can't choose this option blah-blah"18:00
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coderustrying to reproduce it shortly now18:00
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Nokius_new vid18:02
coderussledges: the method above works as i said18:02
sledgesin/out? :))18:02
sledgesor many presses18:03
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coderusno many presses18:04
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coderusjust wnen you first changind alphanumeric to numeric and option can't be selected to have numeric keypad you leave settings18:05
coderusafter entering settings you cahnge code to alphanumeric and you can enable numpad now18:06
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coderusyou can see enabled numpad switch and description text above, means i have alphanumeric code set18:07
coderusneed hotfix :D18:08
sledgescoderus: but how to quickest arrive to the "first changind alphanumeric to numeric and option can't be selected to have numeric keypad" ?18:09
coderussledges: well, you have alphanumeric - change it to 12345 - you can't select numpad keypad, then reopen settings, change to alphanumeric and you can select numpad keypad now.18:13
coderussledges: if you can select numpad on first step, reopen settings, change to alphanumeric and change to numeric without closing app, you can't enable numpad. goto 118:14
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coderusshould i record some video also?18:14
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coderussledges: and now, you can just sit in ddevicelock settings page and change code from alphanum to num and back18:19
coderusand at sone iteration you won't be able to select numpad when have numeric code, or able to choose numpad when have alphanumeric code18:19
coderusit's slightly random18:19
coderusbut you can reproduce it just changing your code num-alphanum couple of times18:20
locusftheres already someone who has locked himself out of his Jolla on twitter18:20
coderusi can reproduce it every 1-3 iteration18:20
Nokius_sledges: the new video shows how easy it is!18:23
coderusyeah, it's very easy :)18:24
sledgeslocusf: link?18:24
Nokius_atm a better vid18:25
Nokius_got a better setup18:25
sledgesso the trick is to touch some other controls in that page18:32
sledgeslike you did for number of retries18:32
coderussledges: no18:33
coderussledges: it doesnt matter18:33
coderussledges: just change numeric - alphanumeric until bug18:33
sledgesand it's pretty random apparently18:34
coderus1-3 tries for me18:34
coderusvery frequently18:34
sledgesis there a 100% reproducible sequence, Nokius_ ?18:34
coderussledges: i mean you just change your code from numeric to alphanumeric and dont touch anything18:35
sledgesNokius_: can you confirm?18:35
coderuschange back from alpha to numeric18:35
coderuschange back18:35
Nokius_100% not sure18:35
coderusand every 1- 3 tries bug happening18:35
sledgesNokius_: only one way to find out ;)18:35
Nokius_not sure if its 100% reproducible18:36
coderusi will update my girlfriend phone to u10 soon and can try with second phone :)18:36
sledgesNokius_: 20:35 < coderus> sledges: i mean you just change your code from numeric to alphanumeric and dont touch anything18:37
sledges20:35 < coderus> change back from alpha to numeric18:38
sledges20:35 < coderus> change back18:38
sledgesrinse repeat18:38
Nokius_it is reproducible but it is not all the time happening18:39
coderusfor me its every 1 - 3 change18:39
Nokius_form 3 time in row than one time no effect18:40
Nokius_the row was after reset via cli18:40
Nokius_will try it now with rest via cli and reboot18:41
coderusi never reseted code, i just changed switch back.18:42
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Nokius_coderus: btw. do you use the new when charge stay on feature?18:44
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coderusNokius_: no18:48
coderusNokius_: it doesn't matter18:48
coderusit can't have affect :)18:48
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Nokius_ah have 6min joy but wrong view i hate this fruit18:50
Nokius_sledges: shows that it happen more often18:53
Nokius_give me 6 min18:53
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Nokius_*have to reboot*19:15
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Nokiusoh the Media-share Keyboard bug is still in U10 :-/19:31
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ln-if a localized text is too long to fit into a button or other component, is that mainly the fault of 1) the localization, 2) the software developer, 3) the implementation of the ui component?19:37
Nokiusln- you talk to me?19:41
ln-no, but if you have an opinion on this, let's hear it.19:41
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Armadilloln- 2 and/or 319:54
Armadillo2 if the developer didn't use the possibility of hiding the not fitting text or 3 if the component does not allow to control the text behaviour19:55
ln-yeah, i agree, although other opinions are possible20:00
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brothhello guys20:30
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brothi just read a really great news (sailfish os update for jolla)20:33
Yanielyup, running it atm20:33
Yanielsmooth as butter20:33
brothuhm, seems not yet available on my device20:35
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brothmaybe delays on some countries20:36
Gigadoc2wut, updates?20:36
Gigadoc2ah, rollout was delayed because of a newfound bug20:36
Yanielfirst to first ones, then to early adopters (opt-in), then to the rest afaik20:36
Gigadoc2yes, but this time the rollout actually got stalled completely:
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Yanielgotta update again soon'ish the it seems20:41
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Morpog_PCsounds like hotfix time soon ;)20:43
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cos-long thursday night for sailors20:55
stephgalphanumeric lockscreens notwithstanding, u10 is great guys, thank you very much20:56
cos-i also managed to upgrade and didn't notice any issues20:57
petantikworst case scenario. disable the feature.20:57
petantikif possible20:57
salyavinMaybe a tweet would reach some not on irc or together to know about that alphanumeric lock but otherwise seems nice so far.  Thanks for posting about the issue quickly20:58
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petantikSo even though the roll out was stopped, I checked for updates and it seemed available.21:00
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* stephg really should be working, but peeks into the rabbit hole that is building facter and puppet21:22
Gigadoc2 I just read that the Jolla has a locked bootloader since quite some time, is there still away to backup your phone?21:23
lukdirtwalkerhehe so one shouldn't release updates before christmas :P21:24
coderusGigadoc2: you can unlock it entering recovery mode and choosing "Unlock bootloader" Option :)21:24
Gigadoc2coderus, ah, thanks21:24
Gigadoc2the merproject wiki is not quite up to date then21:25
coderuswell, first one or two firmwares had unlocked bootloader, next one have locked bootloader by default, but there is an default option in default bootloader to unlock it for free without credit card and sending sms :)21:26
coderusthats it21:26
coderusnext ones*21:26
coderusdefault option in default recovery*21:26
coderusit's time to sleep, my first half of brain stopped working :)21:27
coderusbtw, should i release patch for devicelock settings to fix that bug? :D21:28
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zetazIs there someone with good knowledge of the notification mechanisms for voice mails ? I have this issue  :
zetazthat is opened since January.21:36
zetazI was wondering if a hack can be done somehow while waiting for a complete fix, like an independant program getting that information directly from the low level components (Mer/Nemo I think) and outputing a simple notification21:37
zetazbut I don't know where to start looking at in all those stacks, daemons or logs...21:37
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coderussledges: Nokius
coderusthis workaround helped  me22:00
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sledgescoderus: thanks, is there no way you can break it now?22:01
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coderussledges: yep22:02
coderusi can't reproduce it anymore22:02
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coderusbut it does nothing22:02
coderusi mean my patch22:02
coderusprobably just a placebo for device22:03
sledgesthanks, we won't forget your suggestion and test more, it's about race condition22:03
coderusbut my device believes it's actualy panacea22:03
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sledgesthe fix is in the works, just bear with us, doing best here:) and so much thanks for detecting it, Nokius & coderus !22:03
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coderusi debugged, setCurrentIsDigitOnly is called with right parameters, but codeCurrentIsDigitOnly not changed when bug occurs22:07
coderusso it's really DeviceLockSettings internals22:07
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sledgesyes, the fix we're working looks more profound22:11
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Gigadoc2before i start the backup of my jolla, can anyone give me an estimate of the time it takes to read the whole flash?22:17
sledgesGigadoc2: backup takes only some data from it, not all flash22:17
Gigadoc2I am talking about dd if=/dev/mmcblk0 of=/mnt/backup.img within recovery (/mnt is a big microsd)22:18
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Gigadoc2though this reminds me, FAT32 does not support such big files…22:18
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M4rtinKGigadoc2: mount something over ssh22:19
M4rtinKGigadoc2: and pipe dd to a lopp file on it22:20
M4rtinKGigadoc2: *loop file22:20
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, the jolla recovery has ssh?22:21
M4rtinKGigadoc2: oh, you are doing it from recovery22:21
M4rtinKthen no idea22:21
M4rtinKBTW, for inspiration, something like this might be the best bet:22:22
Gigadoc2Wait, I can just do this from the running system, right?22:22
M4rtinKdd if=/dev/hda conv=sync,noerror bs=64K | gzip -c  > /mnt/sda1/hda.img.gz22:22
M4rtinKwell, not sure how consistent it will be22:22
M4rtinKif the system is still running and writing stuff22:22
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M4rtinKmaybe just rsync it ?22:23
Gigadoc2Since I want to backup the qualcomm stuff too, rsync is not the right tool22:23
Gigadoc2but I can just backup my SD and then reformat it with ext4 or something22:23
M4rtinKso format your micro to ext4 :)22:24
Gigadoc2btw, do you have an idea how long copying the whole flash will take? the jolla recovery doesn't seem to support multiple sessions, so i cannot USR1-kill dd22:25
M4rtinKGigadoc2: I'm afraid I don't really know22:26
M4rtinKbut I guess that "pipe it through gzip" trick might help (or not :) )22:26
M4rtinKmaybe just copy a small part and check the transfer speed ?22:27
M4rtinKto gen an overall idea22:27
coderusGigadoc2: i backed up my phome in half of hour or so22:27
Gigadoc2the main btrfs volume will be quite incompressible, though the other parts (specifically the ones containing zeroes) will be better22:27
Gigadoc2coderus, thanks, this should be fast enough22:28
coderusbut i did it with ssh, not recovery22:28
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M4rtinKbtw does btrfs have something like the xfs freeze feature ?22:29
Gigadoc2coderus, okay, but my sd is not THAT slow (class 10), so it should be doable under two hours22:29
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, what does xfs freeze do?22:29
M4rtinKyou tell the filesystem to "suspend" all write (or maybe even read ?) operations22:30
M4rtinKso you can make a block level snapshot22:30
M4rtinKand you can unfreeze it once done22:30
coderus14GB, with 2-3MB/s, it takes about 1-2 hour22:30
coderuswith 6MB/s it takes half of hour :)22:30
M4rtinKhmm, looks like it just freezes write activity22:31
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, you can just make a readonly snapshot, and delete it afterwards22:31
Gigadoc2btrfs subvolume create -r $SUBVOLUME $NEW_SUBVOLUME22:31
Gigadoc2if you omit the -r, you can even get yourself a writable snapshot ;)22:32
M4rtinKGigadoc2: yeah, but can you get a block level snapshot out of it ?22:32
M4rtinKGigadoc2: but I guess a file level one might be enough22:32
Gigadoc2it only affects the selected subvolume, but for that it works on block-level22:32
M4rtinKoh, nice :)22:32
M4rtinKBTW, haven't known about this:22:33
M4rtinK"The xfs_freeze utility can also be used to freeze or unfreeze an ext3, ext4, GFS2, XFS, and BTRFS, file system. The syntax for doing so is the same."22:33
M4rtinKthat's some crazy stuff :D22:33
Gigadoc2but i don't yet know the sailfishos subvolume structure, and subvolume actions do NOT recurse, so you would need to snapshot all the subvolumes ;)22:33
stephgGigadoc2: why are you wanting to back up, if it's for brickish things you only need the first one22:34
M4rtinKpersonally the more I learn about btrfs, the less I'm willing to use it anywhere :)22:34
stephg(well I guess the factory ones)22:36
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, I am actually quite fascinated by it, and am using it everywhere. Once you understand the difference to non cow filesystems, and the difference to ZFS, it becomes quite useful ;)22:36
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Gigadoc2stephg, what do you mean with the first one? I am backing up for the sake of having backups, not planning anything22:37
salyavinCoreOS seems to be removing btrfs from default!topic/coreos-dev/NDEOXchAbuU22:37
stephgwell there's is the factory snapshot which is what gets restored when you do a reset22:37
salyavinit's fun Gigadoc2 but need to deal with things like metadata and such balancing is a problem on servers.22:38
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salyavinI do have btrfs only on a personal server.22:38
salyavinzfs at least works reliably without manual intervension ;P22:38
M4rtinKGigadoc2: oh it is of course fascinating, but too fascinating to entrust my data to it :)22:38
stephgif you're backing your own files up that's no use, if you're worried about recovering from some sort of brick situation it would be22:38
Gigadoc2stephg, all i know, the factory reset is just resetting your btfs volume to a specific snapshot22:38
stephghence asking exactly why you want to have the backup22:38
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, salyavin: what i was going to say next: you need to do manual maintainance of btrfs filesystems. So it is not quite the best choice for mobile devices and such22:39
Gigadoc2stephg, having a full backup in case the btrfs filesystem breaks, ore one of the other partitions get damaged22:39
coderussledges: currentIsDigitOnlyChanged not emitted :)22:40
M4rtinKGigadoc2: yep, and it is mostly related to space usage22:40
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Gigadoc2I am having backups of everything22:40
M4rtinKif you actually start suing the various btrfs features, it is very hard to get any idea of free and occupied space22:40
Gigadoc2I am even having backups of my external harddrives on different harddrives22:40
M4rtinKand df returning bogus numbers on btrfs is not helping things :)22:41
stephgthe only issue I have had (and I've not done a reset on this device since xmas day last year) is the occasional balance due to metadata space exhaustion22:41
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, yes, but regularly balancing block with <50% usage or something "defragments" the filesystem22:41
M4rtinKsuing -> using22:41
salyavinbtrfs fi df /22:41
salyavinnot so hard22:41
salyavinregular df does NOT work22:41
salyavinData: total=1.81TB, used=1.51TB22:42
salyavinSystem, DUP: total=32.00MB, used=288.00KB22:42
salyavinMetadata, DUP: total=16.00GB, used=4.34GB22:42
salyavin: total=512.00MB, used=0.0022:42
salyavinlooks like this22:42
M4rtinKGigadoc2: still, that means you 1) can use about 7 GB max of storage in the Jollas case 2) you *don't* want to let it fail midway22:42
M4rtinKconsidering balance has been reported to run for multiple days (on PCs though) in some case, this could be an issue on a battery powered device :)22:43
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salyavinyes indeed M4rtinK22:43
M4rtinKand all those "balance segfaulted/kernell oops during balance one sees on the btrfs mailing list is not helping :)22:43
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, full balance, but not filtered balance22:44
stephgwell you'd be nuts to do a balance without being plugged into power22:44
stephganyway with that, good night everyone22:44
Gigadoc2good night stephg22:44
M4rtinKBTW, any idea if balance has come fail-safes ?22:44
M4rtinKlike rollback/transactions ?22:44
salyavin"regular user" will have no idea what btrfs balance is.  No fun for them.  btrfs looks so awesome on paper though22:45
Gigadoc2salyavin, that's why i consider it the wrong FS for anything not managed by an administrator22:45
M4rtinKsalyavin: yeah, that's for sure - the aims of the project are nice22:45
Gigadoc2M4rtinK, what do you mean, if you can rollback a balance?22:45
M4rtinKbut the current implementation has many issues22:45
Gigadoc2yes, but not as much as some people want you to believe ;)22:46
M4rtinKGigadoc2: yeah, even with a LVM thin pool you need to watch for pool space exhaustion22:46
Gigadoc2it's inherent to COW-filesystems and the like22:47
M4rtinKyeah, what I mean - if device crashes/runs out of power during balance, will the btrfs filesystem be 100% hosed ?22:47
stephgM4rtinK: not 100%22:47
stephgI've had a reboot during a balance22:47
salyavinhmmm well on a server I can rescue it in almost all cases.  phone I have less options if things go nasty22:47
salyavinyea not 100% by any means22:48
salyavinI'd give you a good chance of being OK actually maybe 4 in 522:48
Gigadoc2stephg, interesting, but should btrfs balance not write before deletion by default?22:48
salyavinWe're also on 3.4.98 kernel, the newer the kernel the better for that filesystem.  I had trouble with 3.17 though but 3.18 fixed it.22:50
Gigadoc2but yeah, recovery options are still quite limited. it's slowly getting better though22:50
salyavinsometimes you have to mount with a special option to copy your data off and redo the filesystem.22:51
salyavinthat's be something like a hard power off22:51
Gigadoc2while defragmenting, i hope22:52
salyavinmore resilient these days and we do have a few limited tools.  you can zero the log too22:52
Gigadoc2my BTRFS-powered laptop survived quite a lot of hard power-offs ;)22:52
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salyavinI haven't had a loss in a while but in earlier days I had to do some nasty stuff to try to get data access back after hard poewr offs22:53
Gigadoc2the irony about it is, the BTRFS structure has so many opportunities for repairing your filesytem or restoring deleted files, but nobody writes tools for it22:53
salyavinlost 5 or 6 times22:53
salyavinwell damaged22:53
salyavinyea theoretically btrfs should be awesome22:54
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Gigadoc2well, if it works, it usually is^^22:55
Gigadoc2until something breaks22:55
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salyavinext4 lacks so many features by comparison and while unlikely can have silent data corruption22:55
salyavinbtrfs has so much but still isn't there22:56
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salyavinYou would think more enterprise companies would put some resources into it22:57
Gigadoc2everytime i do a "balance -dusage=50 -musage=50" followed by "fstrim /" i feel like I'm not sitting in front of a 3-drive notebook, but a 15-drive fileserver :D22:57
Gigadoc2(and my notebook doens't even do raid or something)22:58
salyavinI'd love it to kill veritas volume manager22:58
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salyavinthat damn thing has trouble recovering without help all too often22:59
Gigadoc2hello, m4g0g22:59
m4g0gHow I can open page from attached page but show it before attached page?22:59
salyavinI don't quite understand the question ^-^;;23:00
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m4g0gI have found solution. Thx23:00
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Gigadoc2SanDisk microSD adapters are dangerous, mine had a bent pin, and did almost fry my precious microSD23:06
Gigadoc2cheap Kingston hardware to the rescue!23:07
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coderusm4g0g: using replace instead of push? :D23:27
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