Wednesday, 2018-11-14

*** Colgate_ is now known as Colgate01:25
_svenr0kk3rz: how can i use F1-F10 keys in literm?10:08
r0kk3rzno idea10:09
r0kk3rzwhat for?10:09
_svenr0kk3rz: change sort order in htop10:11
_svenF4 usually10:11
r0kk3rzah ok10:11
r0kk3rzi think that should work... but maybe it doesnt10:12
_svenoh F4 is Filter, F6 is Sort10:13
_svensomething drains my battery on gemini, 50% CPU at idle and an empty battery over night10:14
r0kk3rzas in literm does?10:15
r0kk3rzmaybe it needs to be rebranded to heavyterm10:15
r0kk3rztheres probably fixes in the desktop ui side i can merge across10:15
_svenhas nothing to do with literm10:15
r0kk3rzoh ok, thats good to know :)10:16
_svenits since update to, maybe the wifi connman plugin again that makes trouble10:16
tango_for a while now, I've been unable to access the google account via xmpp11:30
tango_it has been blocked once as insecure by google, but even after I've told google to accept it anyway, it fails11:31
tango_is there a way to debug the issue? sailfish os itself gives no message about the connection failure11:31
r0kk3rzdidnt they deprecate that years ago?11:34
CoolgeekI still connect it11:49
Coolgeektango_: you can make some special code for this on google. I use this code to login via xmpp and it doesn't botherme anymore11:49
tango_Coolgeek: ah, interesting11:53
tango_Coolgeek: The setting you are looking for is not available for your account.11:53
Coolgeekcan't help you if google don't want you to do it11:55
tango_thanks anyway 8-)11:56
muppethhi there. Any experience with caldav sync to nextcloud. I started using sialfish on my phone (fairphone) an di noticed today my phone deleted all calendar entries. It must be it, as i remember in the past when i owned jolla1 it occasionally did the same.13:08
muppethis this normal/reported/documented issue? is sailfish03 fixing any of those shortcommings?13:09
leszekmuppeth: I am using caldav and carddav since years on my Sailfish devices. Never had that issue13:13
leszekso its working fine for me. But I know that carddav stuff has been worked on and I think improvemnets should land13:14
muppethleszek, i had a flashback as this issue was one of the things that made me throw my jolla into the drawer in th efirst place.13:16
muppethI need to check, since i used jolla1 yesterday too to check some stuff, if i had calendars setup on it. that could be the reason (two devices) but if thats not the case its hard to use the phone that will wipe all your perosnal and proffesional appoitments at random (also the ones i shared with other people)13:18
muppethfound this:
muppethbut that isn't very optimistic13:18
leszekI am also using multiple devices and never had that issue. Must be some special scenario where that happens13:18
muppethdo you sync to nextcloud caldav?13:19
leszekwhen I create a new appointment with sailfishos it is synced to nextcloud and from there to all my other devices13:20
muppethhmmm... only calndars that were shared with me stayed (thank god)13:20
tadzikmuppeth: my only issue with caldav and disappearing calendars was them disappearing from device occasionally13:49
tadzikand more often just duplicating endlessly, seemingly every time the SSL cert was rotated13:50
tadzikso over few months I'd end up with 3 or 4 identical calendar entries for everything13:50
fledermausI used to have the duplicated calendars problem but it went away pre 3.x14:03
fledermauswas a bug in the underlying caldav library from Qt iirc14:03
tadzikah, good to know14:17
_svenis it possible to use a TTL/UART converter on gemini?15:48
r0kk3rza usb one?15:56
r0kk3rzdont see why not15:56
_svenon linux it's visible as /dev/ttyUSB0, but i can't find it on gemini15:57
_svenand there is no lsusb on gemini15:57
r0kk3rzcheck dmesg when its connected15:57
_svenGemini kernel: [upmu_is_chr_det] Charger exist but USB is host, this is from journalctl16:00
r0kk3rzit does to usb-ota right?16:00
_sventhere's a bit more
FlyingAnteroHello! Does anyone know if I need to flash new Sailfish X image after commercial features are ready? Or can I just install features from Jolla app store after I have purchased the license? I am currently running Sailfish X Trial on XA2. I didn't get answer from Jolla.17:17
leszekFlyingAntero: All that I know (and if you've taken a look in my install howto video for the XA2) you don't have to reflash after getting the license. The commercial features will appear in the Jolla Store for you to install17:20
FlyingAnteroYeah, I have installed full Sailfish X to Xperia X. That time I indeed installed commercial features from Jolla app store. I am just wondering that is the prosedure same with Trial?17:23
FlyingAnteroI mean after I have purchased the lisence of course.17:26
r0kk3rzpretty sure it says that on the web page, or at least it did17:51
FlyingAnteroIn the Shop there is written "You can start your Sailfish OS trial with these devices already now with the Sailfish X Free version, and purchase and install the commercial components easily later." What does the "install" actually mean here? Installing via flashing the image or from app store?18:18
malFlyingAntero: it says install easily later, which to me doesn't sound like reflashing, pretty sure those will be just installed from store18:38
FlyingAnteroOK, I was thinking that also. Thank for the response.18:39
_svenmal: r0kk3rz: do we have kernel support for uart/serial devices in sailfish?18:48
caitlinwhat fun, stuck on the xperia screen18:56
leszekcaitlin: after flashing SailfishOS on the XA2?18:59
caitlinnope, before19:02
caitlini get this now19:02
caitlintarget didn't report max-download-size19:02
caitlinsending 'boot_a' (17772 KB)...19:02
caitlinFAILED (remote: Requested download size is more than max allowed)19:02
caitlinIMPORTANT NOTE: Detach the USB cable, restart the device and let it boot up to Android UI – Please go through the startup wizard before turning the device off again.19:02
caitlinconflicts with19:03
caitlinNOTE: If your device is still connected and the blue LED lit from step 4.7 it is ok to keep it that way and skip to step 6.5 below.19:03
mal_sven: what do you mean?19:03
malcaitlin: are you using usb3 port on you computer? if yes try usb219:04
caitlinwould it work through a hub? i only have 2 usb ports and i suspect both are usb319:05
caitlinother port does the same19:05
malthere is also another way19:05
mallspci -nn | grep USB | cut -d '[' -f3 | cut -d ']' -f1 | xargs -I@ sudo setpci -H1 -d @ d0.l=019:05
malas root19:05
malthat forces the port to usb219:06
caitlinand how to you jam it back?19:06
caitlini don't really want to brick a laptop whilst bricking a phone19:06
malthis resets it back to usb319:06
mallspci -nn | grep USB | cut -d '[' -f3 | cut -d ']' -f1 | xargs -I@ sudo setpci -H1 -d @ d0.l=119:06
_svenmal: i try to use a CP2102 USB TTL/UART converter on gemini. When i plugin the device, i can see /dev/bus/usb/003/001 and /dev/bus/usb/002/001 and 002, but there is no /dev/ttyUSB0 device. i don't know how to access the usb device19:07
malso run sudo su19:07
caitlinit's a good job i know some IT or that command would be terrifying, actually it remains terrifying19:07
malcaitlin: that is copied directly from jolla zendesk linked here
caitlinit still fails :/19:08
malcaitlin: the commans worked without error?19:08
malwhich fastboot version?19:08
caitlinfastboot version 1:7.0.0+r33-219:09
caitlinit unlocked the bootloader fine19:09
malcheck the output of lspci -nn | grep USB19:09
malI remember seeing such an error19:09
caitlin00:14.0 USB controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation Sunrise Point-LP USB 3.0 xHCI Controller [8086:9d2f] (rev 21)19:09
caitlinit's a dell xps 13 fwiw19:10
malI have the same fastboot version and it worked for me, so I think it's the port or cable that is causing issues19:10
caitlinit's the cable that came with the phone19:10
caitlini could try it the other way up, it is usb-c :P19:10
mal_sven: not sure if gemini kernel has the uart stuff enabled, I enabled those in fp2
caitlindoes it matter that i logout of root after running the command?19:11
malyou should logout from root based on the instructions19:12
malcaitlin: if you have some usb2 hub you can try that19:12
caitlinwell huzzah, brb19:15
caitlinsame, but the hub i have has blue holes, which may still be usb319:17
malyou don't happen to have windows dual-boot or something?19:18
caitlinyeh, i've got a windows machine somewhere for mucking about in my car ecu, i could try that, but i'm not terribly confident with windows19:19
caitlini guess i can follow destructions19:19
caitlintomorrow for that, though19:19
EtuaI've got a question to all Sailfish OS users. How would you persuade quite tech savy Android user to switch. What are main selling points? UI or something else?19:21
EtuaI use Lineage OS with no GAPPS so lack of these services is no problem for me, however I don't think I could replace every app I need with Sailfish native one, also quite don't like the thing about camera quality drop so what are the advantages?19:23
caitlindoes 17772 KB sound wrong?19:24
tadzikEtua: it's an upgrade if you're not a google fan19:24
tadzikI find the UI and the overall UX superior, though I always hated android, so YMMV if you actually use it and like it19:25
malcaitlin: that size seems ok19:25
tadzikI still use some android apps where the native ones are lacking19:25
caitlini found another usb hub which is totally not usb3 but the sam19:26
caitlini don't have a usbc to usbc cable so i can't try that... another OS it will have to be19:26
Etuatadzik: I quite like that side, however I'm not sure whether I'd be eager to pay 50 Euro for Sailfish OS if eg. Sony, Samsung or another major company started selling Android phones will no GAPPS preinstalled. Sailfish 3 is out and currently I don't have any device which could handle free version and unfortunately there is not much fresh insight info available, that's why I ask this question here.19:29
tadzikEtua: myself I quite like sailfish in terms of its UI choices if nothing else. I'd like to see it succeed. I have no warm thoughts towards android whatsoever, all of my experiences with it have been purely negative19:31
tadzikI root for the alternatives then :)19:31
Etuatadzik: I would not consider myself as fan of Android interface, but since ~5.0 I like it yet I don't know the alternatives really. What is the recent pace of UI developement? How would would you see a difference between current state of your system compared to that from last year?19:40
tadzikEtua: oh, the difference is quite massive indeed19:41
tadziksome people complain that it's looking a bit more like android now (in terms of the top menu), but I welcome a good change no matter what it's inspired by19:41
tadzikthere's still some features that I consider to be absolutely basic that are still missing19:41
tadziklike choosing a default browser, especially on a system where the default one sucks ass19:42
tadziksailfish never fails to disappoint on things that I'd take for granted in android/ios, but it's not all doom and gloom, there's definitely a change for the better19:42
schmittlauch[m]Uhm, so what arevthe changes in the update? Landscape menu fix, something else?19:47
r0kk3rzEtua: imo the main selling point it 'its more linux'19:47
Etuatadzik: Are there Android apps that do not work on Sailfish depsite not being dependent on GPlay services or another external framework?19:48
fledermauswell, not just the browser bit19:48
tadzikEtua: stuff using bluetooth for example won't work19:48
tadzikor VPN apps19:48
tadzikthen there's things that just require Android APIs that sailfish doesn't (yet) implement19:48
tadzikif you have something you're curious about, I can check it out for you19:49
EtuaCan promised API update from 4.4.4 to 8.1 fix it or Sailfish just does not implement everything?19:50
tadzikhard to say until we see it19:51
tadzikEtua: and while we're on it, are you any apps you notoriously miss on a de-googled android phone?19:52
tadziksomething hard to find replacements (or good replacements) for?19:52
EtuaThank you, currently I'm just trying to check what might not work because I would not like to send you my whole app library for checking, just these that might be problematic.19:53
r0kk3rzbuy an XA2, if sailfish doesnt suit your need you can always put android back on it19:53
tadzikr0kk3rz: do you not lose any drm-ish features on xa2?19:54
r0kk3rzyou do19:54
r0kk3rztheres hacky ways around that, but if you want to de googlify the phone anyway19:54
EtuaThere are a few apps that just require Google Maps and in such case I would need to install Micro-G to fully use them like bike-sharing app, fortunately there are not so many of them and some workarounds can be used. To check bikes I use app from F-Droid and an official one just to rent them. Also I found public transport app that lets you choose map provider so I can use OSM.19:57
tadzikEtua: ah, I have a public bikes app that requires gmaps too, but it works fine if I just never look at the map itself :P20:00
tadzik(and there's a native sailfish app for the public bikes)20:00
tadzik(well, the map part)20:00
EtuaThe one I was surprised about was PhotoMath as it used to work for a long time until one update which frankly didn't add antyhing special at least from the user's perspective. But my case is a bit different, because for most of the part I use apps from F-Droid and they can't require GAPPS by definition. For regular user loosing GAPPS could well be worse.20:00
tadzikfor a lot of things I just use the webapps instead of the android apps20:01
tadzikUber for example has a fairly functional mobile website20:01
EtuaI also try to stick to using my browser in the first place. A concept of each major website/service having it's own apps for things that can be achieved without it is just broken.20:02
tadzikfully agreed20:02
EtuaI had to uninstall city council app for reporting problems like broken street lamps etc. and go back to calling them directly, because you can't send a report without marking loacation on G Maps.20:04
EtuaSpeaking about that: can Andorid apps use GPS on Sailfish?20:04
tadzikI use car navigation through android apps all the time20:05
EtuaThe other thing that problably won't work is It emulates Samsung services in some weird way so it could as well not work on every Andoid phone.20:07
EtuaHowever someone discovered how to execute some of the commands over wifi, not BT unfortunately, so with some effort I could probably prepare native app for everything except live view.20:09
Etuatadzik: How many apps you have from Android because there is not Sailfish counterpart or it's heavily lacking?20:10
tadziklet's see20:10
tadzikfirefox, here maps/osmand, c:geo, city parking, streetcomplete, city bikes, duolingo, steam20:11
tadzikthat's about it20:12
tadzikstreetcomplete and city bikes I could live without, duolingo too, the rest is pretty much a hard requirement for me20:13
Etuar0kk3rz: Sure but you can't take a refund after you buy the licence, do you? I would like to check the full experience with Android apps.20:13
r0kk3rzno, but its not that much20:13
r0kk3rzits hard to convey the full 'sailfish experience' into words20:14
r0kk3rzif it sounds like something you're interested in, then worst case you donate €50 to a bunch of finns20:14
Etuar0kk3rz: I live in PLN world, actually I don't remember paying for any license that much since buying antivirus for three years around 2012 and MS Office Visio for the company ;)20:16
EtuaStill I have a need for supporting clause of not letting big G dominate the Internet completly.20:17
tadzikoh, a fellow pole :)20:18
Etuatadzik: That's set of apps very similar to mine. How do you update them? F-Droid, APKs, alternative Google Play frontend?20:19
r0kk3rzyeah, they should probably have a cheaper price for poland20:19
tadzikand yes, around here 50€ is not far from a daily wage to some people20:19
r0kk3rz50€ buys quite a lot there20:19
tadzikEtua: f-droid or aptoide20:19
Etuar0kk3rz: As far as I can remember there is a legal issue/dispute with having different prices for the same service in EEA. That's why you have special Steam prices for Russia but not really for counties between Germany and Ukraine/Belarus.20:24
Etuar0kk3rz: How much of image quality or  anything else you loose by getting rid of Sony DRM?20:25
r0kk3rzon the xa2, im not sure20:29
r0kk3rzon older sony devices its pretty bad, newer ones arent so bad20:30
r0kk3rzi think the hardware got better so it needs less software compensation20:30
EtuaIs it only about image quality or also their other "magiacal" features like sound enhancements or power management?20:31
EtuaDoes anyone here use apps like Conversation that need to run background service to maintaing connection with the server? Do they work on Sailfish?20:32
Etua*in order to maintain20:33
r0kk3rznoise cancelling headphone stuff is affected20:34
r0kk3rzpower management will be completely different anyway on sailfish20:35
r0kk3rzfor XMPP you dont need an 'app' its built into the OS20:35
EtuaI know, Conversations is just an example of such behaviour, yet I don't know whether all XEPs that Conversations has are implemented in default Sailfish OS app so maybe I would prefer to use it even if that meant worse UI integration.20:37
EtuaSpeaking of that: how are notifications handled both for native and Android apps?20:38
r0kk3rzit probably doesnt20:38
tadziknotifications from android apps Just Work[tm]20:38
r0kk3rznotifications are fairly notificationy, not sure what you're after20:38
r0kk3rzEtua: what android device do you have?20:40
Etuar0kk3rz: I used OPO for a few years then Galaxy S5, both on Lineage OS without GAPPS so I experienced features like replying directly in notifications menu which Conversations supports. Unfortunately both devices fell on the ground and I'm now looking for an alternative. A decision whether to use Sailfish OS will directly affect my hardware choice.20:44
EtuaI did not mention: both OPO and S5 used to run Android 8.1.20:45
r0kk3rzoh ok, we do ports of sailfish to many android devices20:51
r0kk3rzso you might've been lucky20:51
EtuaIs Sailfish X the only version supporting Android apps?20:52
r0kk3rzthat you can actually buy? yeah currently20:53
r0kk3rz'sailfish x' isnt really a version either20:54
r0kk3rzits best to ignore the term completely20:54
EtuaWhy is that?20:54
r0kk3rz'sailfish x' is a confusing marketing term that makes little sense20:55
EtuaThat small hardware choice is not the best situation, but unfortunately Android app support is probably make or break for me.20:55
r0kk3rzyeah it sucks20:56
steeeveSaying sailfish x sux in a sailfish group doesnt make sense20:57
r0kk3rzsteeeve: you dont make sense20:58
steeeveNo you20:58
EtuaI'd love to see a device that has better camera quality or at least does not loose it much without DRM component's. And Sony is not the worst choice for that.20:58
r0kk3rzsteeeve: fite me20:58
steeever0kk3rz: im coming :020:58
r0kk3rzEtua: i dont see a similar arrangement happening for other manufacturers so much21:00
r0kk3rzsony is quite unique in that regard21:00
steeeveThen buy a galaxy a5 2015 version21:00
r0kk3rzdefinitely not that21:00
steeeveKitkat device running 9.0 thanks to me, THANKS TO ME!!21:02
r0kk3rz(and everyone else in porters channel)21:02
steeeveAnd sailfish 3.0, still thanks to me ^^21:02
steeever0kk3rz: no21:03
steeeveThats for sailfish,not for android21:03
EtuaI remember running 4.4.4 on first Galaxy S. There were somelater versions, unfortunately at that time my screen was preety dead.21:03
steeeveIn that case yes, half of the hardware is working thanks to that channel :P21:03
EtuaI suppose that Android apps can't access notifications and mange many system setting because that is much API dependend. That makes a weird situation where you can't connect device running Asteroid OS with Sailfish OS which both run "true" Linux, use Qt etc. or can you?21:15
r0kk3rzsailfish and asteroid are quite alike21:16
r0kk3rzbut of course, BLE support in sailfish is mostly nonexistent, so yeah not so much talky going on there21:16
EtuaAnyway I have Sony SW3 which has the worst support among all official releases so it can't even work for the whole day without being recharged.21:19
EtuaWhy BLE does not work? Is it about complexity of the software, no need and resources or does it need proprietary drivers?21:20
steeeveLets use kitkat base to have alien dalvik!21:21
r0kk3rzEtua: its complicated, but the tl;dr is lack of drivers21:21
EtuaOh, so it cannot be achieved without third party cooperation?21:22
r0kk3rzno, just kernel work that is typically not done21:24
steeeveMal updated anbox today. Looks good21:24
malno I didn't21:28
malsteeeve: what do you mean?21:28
steeeveYes you did21:29
steeeve14 november21:29
r0kk3rzyou know the sailfish_latest target got updated today21:32
r0kk3rzso it rebuilt, that is all21:32
EtuaYou told me that Android apps using BT won't work. Is that the case with native ones too?21:33
r0kk3rzno thats ok21:34
r0kk3rzi dont think theres many native bt apps, but yeah21:34
malsteeeve: it was st rebuilt because target updated21:40
steeeveI supposed it was automatically rebuilt21:40
caitlini tried a usb-c cable and that can't even find the device, luls21:43
EtuaIs Jolla Harbour a complete representations of apps that are available through official store?21:44
r0kk3rzjolla harbour is the official store21:49
dlavsolinsteeeve, have you tried anbox rpms on sailfishos?22:18
steeeve2 months ago22:20
dlavsolinon what device?22:21
EtuaI've just read TOS for Harbour and there is a whole exhibit dedicated to Here Technologies. What kind of relationship is present between Jolla and Here? How are their services used in the OS?22:21
martonmiklosHi all22:54
martonmikloswhere should be place the qm files of the libraries?22:55
martonmiklosI have a QML plugin called vcardserialier22:55
martonmiklosI have installed the translation vcardserializer-hu_HU.qm to the /usr/share/translations22:55
EtuaIt was nice talking to you guys. Huge thanks to you all!23:37

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