Friday, 2018-11-30

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fasdfdI'm askes to pay 50eur to download Sailfish, but I tought this OS is libre software. Can someone explain this?10:00
PeperJohnny@fasdfd Sailfish is not libre. It's parts open source. Also Sailfish X is the one that costs money for the Xperia line of Sony10:01
PeperJohnnyPorts for other devices can be had for free iirc10:01
leszekfasdfd: SailfishOS is based on Free and LibreSoftware. It is not fully free and libre10:01
Coolgeekand libre (or free (as ins free speach), or open sources) software doesn't mean free (as in free beer)10:01
leszekSailfishX is also available as free as in free beer version called "Trial" which means simply it does not come with support and proprietary software like alien dalvik (android runtime) aswell as ms exchange support and word predicition10:02
r0kk3rzfasdfd: the fee covers proprietary licences, support, updates10:02
fasdfdI think it does, but may require manual compiling10:02
yofuhalso there is a free(as in free beer) version of sailfish-x that doesn't contain the closed parts10:02
fasdfdSo there's no Sailfish version available that's actually as open/libre as Debian or Ubuntu?10:03
fasdfdAnd Sailfish X is the only thing I could find, there's also some Trial version but that seems like not what one should use on their daily driver10:03
leszekfasdfd: The base mer or nemo might be actually that. Though there is no image available of it for devices afaik10:03
leszekfasdfd: have you read what I wrote about the "Trial" version?10:04
r0kk3rzfwiw there is an open alternative for text prediction10:04
leszekyeah though it does not provide all languages. Like german is missing and you need to build it on your own10:05
fasdfdleszek, but does that Trial version offer updates: security updates and bug fixes?10:05
r0kk3rzso like everything open ever :P batteries not included10:05
yofuhfasdfd: i actually run the trial version (there is no support for the Xc anyway) and it works for me just fine (no need android, exchange or such)10:05
yofuhhow long updates work however, i don't know. as no customer i cannot expect a commitment from the other site10:06
Coolgeekand, by buying it, you support Jolla in making SFOS better :)10:06
yofuhi tend to buy it finally for that part, but i would feel better about it if i had a supported device10:07
leszekfasdfd: yeah it should update normally. Maybe you need to manually update. Though I can't think of someone in Jolla putting work into coding an antifeature10:08
r0kk3rzpretty sure it would update just fine10:09
r0kk3rzbut yeah, if you dont pay then maybe you cant expect too much support10:10
r0kk3rzits a fair deal if you ask me10:10
fasdfdwell, 50eur is just a bit less than I pay for a phone. and these phones break so often, my nexus just died on me. I'm not gonna waste this much money on something that is close to useless, I'm not in the smartphone hype game10:12
fasdfdIs the Trial version close source too or something like AOSP? I don't see a reason for it to not be open10:13
yofuhyou have a root shell and a pretty normal linux, if that's what you mean10:14
PeperJohnnyThe gui part and most jolla apps are closed source10:14
PeperJohnnyAnd apparently Jollas investors see enough reason to not open source it or else it would have happened long ago :/10:15
r0kk3rzyeah, if thats a deal breaker then i point you towards community efforts such as plasma mobile, ubuntu touch, lune os, nemo mobile10:18
fasdfdIdk, I think Android is partly this successful because it's open source. Thanks to that, loads of people do free work for them, plus there's praise of it even though there's nothing good about it being open source10:18
fasdfdit's a model where you trick people into working for you for free and be happy about it10:19
yofuhthe loads of people to free work payed by google10:20
fasdfdwell, afaik there's loads who do this for free too10:20
yofuhand the model works because there are other reasons for google than selling licenses, however, it doesn;t come free10:20
tortoisedocfasdfd : its free even if its free software /open source no? wheres the gain in there?10:20
tortoisedocs/free/free labor/10:21
yofuhandroid would never have made it that far without google or any other large company who pays the bill10:21
fasdfdthat's for sure10:21
yofuhwith nokia left for a better future with microsoft, ther is no large corp that pays the bills in the meego-world, so jolla is what we have and i thik w can be thankful for that10:23
r0kk3rzand a couple of years ago we nearly didnt even have that10:26
coderuspvuorela: Sage__: martyone: review please
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korgonHi guys, are there some devices like smartphones and STBs which have already SDKs based on Sailfish OS to develop further applications and customize for certain usage?18:03
tbrbasically you can take any device with a functional nemo/sailfish port and customize it18:04
r0kk3rzkorgon: what do you want to do?18:05
korgonis there some list of devices with available port?18:05
r0kk3rzin general, if you want to make your own UX, i would take one of those, install nemo glacier on it, and go from there18:07
korgonLike end devices people use now on android (smartphone or 4K STBs), so except quick app development don;t take all the google and other stuff and provide user privacy from this perspective18:08
* tbr fails to parse that statement18:09
tbris that a commercial idea or just some hobby/experiment?18:09
r0kk3rzkorgon: what do you want to do?18:10
korgoncommercial idea, but looks like not many devices already available, in general as devices for our ISP customers, and don;t see even any media device, looks like not good idea maybe ...18:18
tbrif you are looking for an STB, Kodi on top of openelec might be a saner choice18:22
korgonregarding hw for STB in general you will want to go for some reasonable SOC like S912 or S905X from amlogic18:27
korgonfor sw you need good player and overlay browser, if we easy solution, but most solution use browser and custom javascript for media manipulation18:31
korgonor vlc libs based18:32
r0kk3rzkorgon: this would be normally android based?18:33
korgonyes, in most cases easiest because of avaiable SDKs for devices18:33
korgonor linux, depends on ODMs and their BSPs etc, in general you want hw/OS ready to focus on app18:34
korgonare there some ODMs which support Sailfish for their devices? either phones or STBs?18:36
r0kk3rznot as such18:37
r0kk3rzthe process sailfish uses is to take an AOSP from ODM and convert it18:37
r0kk3rzits hard, but it means you can have linux system on android BSP18:37
korgonyou can meet many problems and instability, to decode 4K 24x7 for years ...18:39
korgonit;s different to use on phone and some play experiment18:39
korgonso any devices with android SDK available can be ported based on it?18:40
r0kk3rzwithin limits, yeah18:41
korgonwithout ODMs support it will be very limited usage, you need something to build on18:44
korgonotherwise playground very small18:44
korgontoo much effort for very limited freedom, makes sense mostly for closed systems if they not decide for own complete customization ...18:46
r0kk3rzyou can also use linux bsp if your hardware supports it18:50

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