Tuesday, 2019-11-05

*** zbenjamin is now known as Guest1133302:49
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dcalisteHello chriadam, how are you ?08:08
dcalisteI've seen your notes on caldav!51. About the mReceivedStuff, it's a good question indeed.08:09
chriadamhi dcaliste08:10
chriadamit's not a real issue I suppose, since in that case it's pure additions anyway08:10
chriadam(the delta is most important, IMO, when there are various changes both local+remote which need to be dealt with)08:10
chriadamand that's handled separately from what I understand08:10
dcalisteYes, but as you said, exceptions may not be counted, I need to check. At the same time, it's only on first import.08:11
dcalisteExceptions are properly counted in the delta code path.08:11
chriadamin principle, I have no concerns with the PR, looks good but I still need to test on device08:12
dcalisteSure, no problem.08:12
chriadamI had meant to do so last week, but caught up chasing another bug which I'm still chasing08:12
chriadamsome issue with mkcal date handling again unfortunately.  a sync plugin which provides a VTIMEZONE definition which for some reason isn't being stored properly by mkcal, then later on the date is being returned as UTC08:13
dcalisteAh, do you want to share the tracking ?08:13
chriadamin chasing it, I went down a rabbit hole with mkcal unit tests (e.g. some cases where it uses LocalZone in the unit tests, but the assumptions are wrong so it's enforcing the wrong behaviour at least in Brisbane tz from what I can tell)08:14
chriadamnot much to share, currently, unfortunately.  I will have PRs up soonish I hope08:14
chriadamthe short summary: in SqliteStorage::fromOriginTime() in the case where it tries calendar specific zones08:14
chriadamin this case (and I haven't tracked down why this is the case, could be sync plugin's fault) the timezone field contains a valid id but the VTIMEZONE record stored in the Timezones table is partial (it looks like: "BEGIN:TIMEZONE\r\nTZID:SOME_LONG_TZ_ID_UUID\r\nEND:VTIMEZONE\r\n" without any offset information etc)08:16
chriadamso icaltimezone.isValid() returns true08:16
chriadambut it's useless for any conversion, since it doesn't store any offset info... so the .toTimeSpec(KDateTime::Spec(icaltimezone)) returns same as .toUtc()08:16
chriadamso "simplish" fix for that is to check to see if the icaltimezone there is "empty" (i.e. vtimezone() returns an empty-ish VTIMEZONE definition)08:17
chriadambut then while trying to write unit tests for various things, I ran into a bunch of issues with the unit tests... rabbit hole stuff.08:17
dcalisteAh, I understand the reasoning. I don't think there are tests currently about non system time zone…08:18
dcalisteI'm modifying a bit some tests with mkcal!17 https://git.sailfishos.org/mer-core/mkcal/merge_requests/17 because the some assumptions were wrong or at least working only in specific cases. Which tests are you modifying ?08:19
chriadamlet me check that one08:19
chriadamI'm looking at the raw events test currently08:19
chriadambut there were a couple of others IIRC also08:20
dcalisteOPk, in !17, most modifications are in allDayUTC() test.08:22
chriadamyes also the alldayRecurrence08:22
chriadamdidn't think I hit issues in the alldayUTC test but maybe I'm misremembering08:22
dcalisteThere may be several separated issues ;)08:23
chriadamno doubt08:23
chriadamevery time I have to think about timezones my brain explodes ;-)08:23
dcalisteI agree it's a tricky problem.08:24
chriadamanyway, aside from that: the "honour direction" caldav MR LGTM, I was supposed to merge that but got sidetracked as above08:24
dcalisteSure, merge it when you have time, no problem.08:24
chriadamhas there been further progress from Jolla side (comments/testing etc) for the folder sync PR for emails?08:25
chriadamif not, I will ask pvuorela or flypig to take another look at that - I understand that some hours were allocated for that internally08:25
dcalisteNo, and I didn't look at it neither, mainly working on mkcal and kcalcore recently.08:25
chriadamcool np08:26
dcalisteAbout TimeZones, memory calendars are supposed to cache incidences per dates (as extended calendar is doing), so I'm proposing a patch upstream to properly handle this : https://phabricator.kde.org/D2506608:27
dcalisteCurrently no reply, but I'll try to find some more reviewers.08:27
dcalisteIf accepted, I'll backport it to Mer kcalcore, so extended calendar can properly inherit memory calendar.08:28
chriadamexcellent, thank you08:29
dcalisteBecause incidences added to a calendar can be given a different time zone than the calendar itself, and the date of the event be different than the date seen by the calendar.08:29
dcalistemkcal extendedcalendar is doing this properly, but not memory calendars.08:29
dcalisteAs I told you also last week, I've a MR (https://git.sailfishos.org/mer-core/buteo-sync-plugin-caldav/merge_requests/52) removing the Q_FOREACH macro from caldav plugin.08:33
chriadamYep, I haven't had a chance to take a look at that one yet, unfortunately, but I suspect it's mechanical and straight-forward.08:33
chriadamso, LGTM once I've tested it08:33
dcalisteI'm supposed to have taken good care for constness issue to avoid copying, but it's better if checked a second time !08:33
chriadamyep :-)08:34
chriadamI don't have anything else to discuss today - sorry again for being slow with your CalDAV MRs08:35
dcalistepvuorela: about https://git.sailfishos.org/mer-core/python3/merge_requests/11, there is this problem with duplicating the variable definitions between the two specs and the fact that %include is not working (or that I cannot make it work). Can you comment when you have a piece of time ?08:36
chriadamwas there anything else you wanted to discuss this week, or things you'd like me to poke people about?08:36
dcalistechriadam: no problem, you're busy, that's fine.08:36
dcalisteNothing else to discuss this week I think. I'm working on the purge API for mkcal, MR should land next week or the one after I think.08:37
pvuoreladcaliste: sure. i was supposed to earlier but then got too many other things :/08:38
chriadamsounds good!08:38
dcalistepvuorela: ok, no problem if it's still on the radar ;)08:39
dcalistepvuorela: (and thanks for the quick fix in account qsetting packaging yesterday)08:39
pvuorelasure :)08:39
adantesIve been using sailfish 2.1 community edition in Gemini PDA for a while, and the impression cannot be better11:08
adantesWent to Android, because of the spice cliente, and immediatly drained 7% of battery, just because11:08
adantesthis is just amazing.11:09
adantesSailfish sells sailfish X for gemini PDA. Does anyone find it worthful to make the leap?11:10
Dakonanyone at QtWS2019?11:11
lachs0rhm, sadly the connman patch didn’t improve battery life on the jolla tablet much11:41
lachs0rit did last slightly longer than it usually does on wifi, but the difference isn’t nearly as huge as on the xperia x11:42
adantesanyone using gemini pda?12:08
nycteayes, me12:23
nycteabut I feel like you've asked earlier and I replied the same12:23
leinirYup! ...but i'm terrible and don't run sailfish on it :P12:24
nycteayeah, you (or someone with your nick) did ask this a few days ago, you had the wifi problem12:25
nyctealeinir, you're terrible12:25
leinirBasically, nay literally the worst12:25
nycteaadantes, I also paid for Sailfish, yes, but I'm still waiting for android app support ;-)12:26
lachs0rI’m not waiting for better android support, I just write apps when something is missing (reverse engineer if I have to)12:34
lachs0radmittedly there hasn’t been a lot of that12:34
nycteaI haven't tried writing them myself, yet12:35
nycteaI generally don't like programming GUI's12:35
lachs0rbut I’m working on a public transit app that uses OneBusAway’s API (mostly puget sound area since I’ll be staying there for the remainder of the year)12:35
nycteaand the only thing I actually miss is signal12:35
adantesnyctea: it was me12:35
adantesnyctea: sorry, just forgot your nick12:36
lachs0rheh, my approach to IM is use IRC and get people to use tox when privacy is required12:36
adantesthe wifi prob was solved12:36
adantesKILL IT12:36
lachs0rnyctea: oh you should give it a try, qml/silica is extremely nice to work with12:36
lachs0respecially compared to literally every other mobile platform out there12:36
lachs0ralmost everything that is just an interface to some web api doesn’t even require writing any c++12:37
adanteslachs0r: I'm following the same path... bu this is a noreturnpath12:38
lachs0rand very few lines of js — the rest is just declarative UI markup12:38
nycteableh, js12:38
adantesI guess last time I used IRC activly was about 20 years ago12:38
nycteahey I started using irc actively about 20 years ago12:39
adantesmsn messenger an icq turned out to be great12:39
adantesand better chicks used it12:39
lachs0rnyctea: very basic js. the most repulsive thing you’ll encounter is xmlhttprequest12:40
adanteshave you found the upgrade worthy?12:41
adantesthis community edition is prety ood12:41
nycteawell it didn't make a huge difference12:42
nycteacan't really recall any, actually12:42
adantesIf i'm going for the upgrade is for one reason solely: support the devs12:42
nycteayeah, that's why I bought it12:42
adanteseven though I've bought for my XA212:42
nycteasupporting development and hoping for more features12:42
nycteafuture features12:43
adantesmehhh.. don't know if thats happening12:43
adantesthis is very very nieche market12:43
adanteswhatever the tv wconnomy nerds call it12:43
lachs0rif you want more features, organize and implement them12:47
lachs0rthat’s my opinion at least12:48
lachs0rrelying solely on jolla to solve all of our problems for us seems like a Bad Idea that’s only going to diminish the user base12:49
adanteslachs0r: couldnt agree more12:50
lachs0rwhich is why I think it’s really damn important we get a decent OBS setup already12:50
adanteslachs0r: If I hadnt got a family to sustain12:50
lachs0rso openrepos can rest in peace12:50
adantesI guess that -- and this is my oppinion, for whats worth -- even though I earn my life making android and ios software for mass public12:53
adantesfuck users12:53
adanteswe need something hardcore, reliable and secure12:53
lachs0rit’s just kind of sad to see a community that is as tech-savvy as sfos’ not organizing more12:54
lachs0rand I regret not getting involved more in the past12:55
adantesno need for shitty compoonents an layouts12:55
lachs0rI even got the damn tablet ffs12:56
lachs0rbeen doing way too little given how much I care about the platform12:56
adantessomething may be done, and I wish I had the time to contribute, learn qml an stuff12:57
lachs0rnot much to learn about qml to be able to use it12:58
lachs0rthere’s a page on common UI pitfalls in silica’s documentation, but other than that it’s all pretty intuitive once you get past hello world12:58
adanteswhen you see you lost hundresds of hours doing boring stuf like custom dropdowns, and other custom bs, that wasgreat in android gingerbread, and then they ruined  it all jus by moving forward an deprecating design guidelines12:59
lachs0randroid UI is a fucking disaster anyway12:59
adantesbecause users wanted to... funny things with images12:59
adantesI really enjoy the looks in sailifsh12:59
adantesits more than enough13:00
adantesclear, well arranged13:00
lachs0rthe UI is what really sets sfos apart. the way interaction works is a whole lot better than anything on other platforms13:00
adantesand pretty aswell13:00
lachs0rmost of all, consistent13:00
adantesI needd to choose between 10 things. Use a drop. done13:01
lachs0randroid doesn’t even have a consistent push-and-hold behavior13:01
lachs0ror gestures that make sense13:01
adantesusers way of thinking, i need to choose between 10 things: god! those are too many things! whydon;t they make a graph with diferent screens and explanations and animations, an videos13:02
lachs0rand every app has dozens of tiny buttons13:02
lachs0ryou never know what they do13:02
lachs0rsome trigger actions, some take you to different screens13:02
adantesuck users13:02
lachs0rsome are so close to the scroll bar you can barely use them13:03
lachs0rsfos gets a lot of it right, and continues to improve13:03
lachs0ralso it’s really nice how easy it is to patch the system’s UI13:04
adantessfos gets a lot of things right. Its my main OS for proessional and personal use13:04
adantesIt's very very clear13:04
lachs0rit’s also real linux. with a real libc, real package management, applications that adhere to freedesktop specs, etc.13:05
lachs0rbecause it’s not designed for lock-in13:05
adantesonce I put my sfos behind a wireshark13:06
adantesand my android13:06
adantesan winX13:06
adantessfos, was silent13:06
adantesandroid an winx, even in idle, wireshark looked like a christmas tree13:07
adantessince then it is my first choice in personal phone13:07
lachs0rsfos pretty much only communicates with jolla-owned domains to verify the licensing status and to check for ipv4/v6 connectivity iirc13:07
adantesyes; more than acceptable13:08
adantesit reminds me a lot of my home setup using arch13:08
adantesjust clean clean clean13:08
adantesdwm, and no bs13:08
lachs0rgoogle android also uploads ALL of your media without asking unless you opt out13:08
adantesthats a huge problem, you know13:09
lachs0rdoesn’t seem to bother people13:09
lachs0rbecause it’s all just reduced to a matter of privacy13:09
lachs0rwhen there’s so much more to it13:10
adantesit almost makes it worth to hang around with a raspberry pi in your pocket just acting like proxy/frewall for your google android and ios devices13:10
adantesbut that would be dumb if you just use vanilla sfos13:10
lachs0rall the data big tech collects is being used to manipulate people (because that’s literally what targeted advertising does — of course it’s being used for things other than advertising as well)13:10
adantesyes, thats a huge concern13:11
adantesssh for life :-D13:11
adanteswell, must go13:11
lachs0rI hate sounding like a conspiracy theorist but these things are happening right now13:11
adantesnice chat13:11
lachs0rfacebook literally bragged about how they can target depressed teens13:12
lachs0rpeople are extremely vulnerable to begin with, but they don’t even realize just how much psychological firepower is aimed at them when they use those products13:12
lachs0roh well, guess I’m just preaching to the choir in this channel ;)13:13
adanteslachs0r: it's users fault14:25
lachs0rno it isn’t14:26
adantesif it wasnt for the need to implement communication/cameras/chat/gamming portable devices so massivly in the market, this wouldnt happen14:26
lachs0rand who creates this need?14:27
adantesI remember having a psion revo14:27
lachs0rthe companies who build all these platforms to begin with14:27
adantesit was mind blowing14:27
adanteswith a modem, Id use it again14:27
lachs0rand no one is immune to manipulation14:28
adantesdumb like hell. If you do sw, you feel the urge to dumbify your software, r the users wont buy it14:28
lachs0rthe role of advertising is to create a perceived need for a product or service14:28
lachs0rnobody really needs facebook, signal or whatsapp14:29
adanteslachs0r:  thats my point14:29
lachs0ryeah but you’re blaming the wrong people14:29
adantesI run a business, and do most of my needs in f#$ SSH14:29
adantesspreadsheet included!14:30
adantesfuck useres14:30
lachs0rit’s the users who can do something about it, but it’s not the users who are responsible for the way bad software dominates the market14:30
adantesthey buy stuff when its dumb enough14:30
lachs0rthey buy software when it’s advertised enough14:30
lachs0reven when it’s overly complex and unwieldy14:31
adantesyou build an amazing piece of software, that links to everything, runs all apis smoothly, but what is the key for the user to use it? if it has baby drawings, and a 3 click interface14:31
adanteseven if it has multiple flaws, and obliterates your privacy:they care baby drawings, and 3 click user interface14:32
lachs0rnot really true. if you look at a lot of commercially successful UIs, they’re all absolutely hideous garbage that’s way more difficult to use than it has any right to be14:33
lachs0rbut what they all have in common is good branding14:33
adantesremember the huge difference in paradigm between apple and MS? Apple adapt to ther target; microsoft demanded users to adapt to their software14:33
lachs0rtake discord as an example. or even in open source software, mastodon14:33
lachs0rthey’re both trash but the branding has made them super successful14:34
adantesyes, I agree14:34
lachs0ror telegram14:34
adantessooooo much better that whatsapp14:34
adantestelegram has bot anf14:35
adantesand game features14:35
lachs0rthese are all trash14:35
adanteswhatsapp is a case study14:35
adantesand so is skype14:36
lachs0rdecades later and despite all the flaws, IRC is still the pinnacle of instant messaging, and that’s just infuriating14:36
lachs0rthe only thing that comes close to being a decent, modern alternative is tox14:36
adantesno that easy to use, for the commonuser #fuckusers14:36
lachs0rxmpp is too busy circlejerking to do anything useful (like a reference implementation with a C API)14:37
lachs0ras a matter of fact, corporations love xmpp because every bit of the standard is designed to benefit their use case: a nice walled garden14:38
adantesnever cared hat much about xmpp, because theres a client for evrything in thre14:38
lachs0rinteroperability is just not a thing they do14:38
lachs0ryou can’t even get two instances of prosody or ejabberd to reliably talk to each other14:38
adantesive implemented successfyllu in a business i was administrating, and everyne was using it14:38
lachs0rxmpp only works where you’re in control of all deployments14:39
adantesandroid, ios, web14:39
adanteseverything was smooth14:39
adantespidgin wherever possible14:39
lachs0roh god libpurple14:40
lachs0rno no no14:40
adanteswhy? plugins for everything14:40
lachs0rnone of which work well14:40
tadzikhrm, it always worked well for me14:41
lachs0rin xmpp’s case it doesn’t support message carbons and omemo properly (and even with plugins to extend it, things are quite broken)14:41
tadzikin its limited scope at least14:41
lachs0runstable too. as most code involving glib ist.14:41
adantesthats too bad15:32
adantesit worked great whenever i needed it15:32
adanteswith open fire15:32
adantesbut, indeed it was used by users, and they're dumb as hell... no special needs needed #fuckusers15:32

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