Sunday, 2021-03-14

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afotosHi, Is there any new phone I can install SailfishOS? I was thinking I have to pay 50€ for the OS, so it's not free. Why don't the developert write some driver for more popular phones?14:50
Nico[m]Because that takes time and 50€ is just enough to pay for a few devices, not all of them and even then you would take the one that are somewhat easy to support with reasonable effort.14:52
afotosI disagree. It's about the price of a Windows OS and look how many PCs and notebooks are.14:55
ggabrielafotos: Sailfish X has a free version, if you wish to try it on supported devices; otherwise you can install Sailfish OS on any freely ported devices by the community, although some have some caveats14:56
afotosI have to invest a phone and the os to see just how it works. If I don't like it I can throw it out from a window.14:56
afotosI saw free as trial14:56
afotosWhat does mean trial?14:57
Nico[m]<afotos "I disagree. It's about the price"> Yes, look how many licenses of Windows were sold, then multiply that by the price of Windows. That is a lot of money. Now think about how many Sailfish licenses were probably sold, that is probably less by the factor of a million or so. So at least a million less supported devices, especially since you still need to develop the OS and it is much harder to port to a new phone14:57
Nico[m]compared to a new laptop with standardized hardware.14:57
ggabrielafotos: no, you can have it for free, it just won't have prediction or android14:58
ggabrielif you then choose to pay 50€ for it, you get prediction and android14:58
ggabrielit's very simple, really, it's all explained in the website14:59
Nico[m]Yep, just if you want to have addons like exchange support, android and the default predictive typing engine, you need to buy a license14:59
ggabrieloh, thanks Nico[m] - exchange as well as android and prediction14:59
Nico[m]And that only works on the officially supported devices14:59
ggabrielwell, the community ports are always free :D14:59
Nico[m]<ggabriel "well, the community ports are al"> That's one way to word it ;p15:00
ggabrielofc they aren't free as in "free beer", but they incur zero monetary cost. Then it's up to the individual to reflect on the amount of hours invested to get such product15:02
afotos here I can see get free trial. I don't know what trial means, and which devices are supported.15:02
Nico[m]ggabriel: I was poking fun at that, because you could consider them lacking stuff like android support as them being free, but it also is kinda just that there is no way to pay for that, as it is unsupported :D15:03
ggabrielafotos: "suppored devices" are in the columns: xpexia X, XA2, 10 and gemini PDA (admittedly it could be explained better)15:04
afotosIs jolla making business by selling it to China and Russia or they want to make money from average customers from all around the world?15:04
ggabrielafotos: I guess you would need to become an investor to find that out - jolla is a private company, FWIW15:04
ggabrielNico[m]: yeah, got that, hence the "free as in free beer" - I love that phrase15:05
Nico[m]They mostly try to sell it to businesses and consumers. One of their larger customers is in Russia. Apart from that we don't have much information :315:05
afotosggabriel: You are talking about supported devices and paid OS. I'm askig which devices are supported for the free or trial OS.15:05
Nico[m]ggabriel: :D15:05
ggabrielafotos: in all those devices that I mentioned, the free licence should work. But you could ask this to jolla, too15:06
afotosI thought there are some people here from Jolla15:06
ggabrielI mean through an official channel, so you have it in writing15:06
ggabrielwhat device are you planning to get?15:06
afotosIf I choose SailfishOS I'd pick a used Xperia 10. I'm thining on Ubuntu Touch as well.15:08
ggabrielso, you should be able to use a free licence there and then buy one if you wish android/predictive/exchange, as we explained15:08
ggabrieland you would get android 8 runtime15:09
afotosAs I read with SailfishOS 4 Android 9 is supported15:09
ggabrielno, you can flash sfos 4 over devices with android 8 or 9, but the runtime supported on xa2 and 10 is 8; on x is 415:10
ggabrielbut do not buy an xperia 10 with android 10, or you would need to downgrade it to flash sfos15:10
afotosggabriel: I know about the downgrade from Android 1015:11
afotosAndroid App Support in Sailfish 4 has reached Android 9 level. Android apps now support richer notifications, handle audio and video calls better and can access content from SD cards and detect WLAN connections.15:11
afotosMaybe I missunderstood this15:12
ggabrielI dont know what level 9 in that context is15:12
ggabrielbut the runtime is 8.1, like that table says15:12
ggabrielthere's a little app that tells you what it is, maybe somebody can run it for you (I don't have it)15:13
ggabrielregardless, most modern "apps" should run in 8, 9 and 1015:13
ggabrielruntime 4 is a bit more restricted (e.g., lyft won't work)15:13
afotosThe 8.1 Android support was on their website a month ago when SailfisOS wasn't released. So they didn't update their website yet.15:13
afotosI meant SailfishOS version 415:14
ggabrielafotos: sadly, it's confusing:
ggabrielI _think_ they mean that you can now flash sfos over android 9, as opposed to aliendalvik being able to run android 9 apps15:17
ggabrielbut feel free to search/ask in the forums15:17
ggabrielI personally tend to not use android, so I can't care less :)15:17
afotosThe only app is very important to me is the online navigation like google maps or Waze. I use it daily and I need it with accurate house numbers.15:19
ggabrielah, I use pure maps in combination with osm scout maps - which is dramatically better than anything that google can tell you15:20
ggabrielofc some people use those, and they ought to be compatible even with the old android runtimes15:20
ggabrielmind you - for those "apps" you probably need google play, which involves a little bit of hacking. I would search around in the forums for instructions15:21
afotosI'll give a try for the free version15:24
afotosThank you15:24
ggabrielgood luck15:24
Thaodanggabriel: ad now can run Android 9 apps16:07
ggabrielThaodan: thanks for clarifying16:08
ThaodanSee here:
ggabrielThaodan: yeah, kind of confusing when you can flash with android 8 on the phone and that table on the store still says android 8 :)16:20
Thaodanwell AD is completely separated and the issue that Android newer that Android 9 caused issues was a side effect that was caused by a firmware update that came with android 9.16:23
nephros_Hi, dev docs say to come in here after creating a PR and prod a dev. Well I did this thing:  Is this of any interest?18:29
ggabrielmaybe try proding tomorrow that it isn't sunday :)18:31
nephros_ggabriel: hmm, you might have a point there!  :)18:39
Thaodannephros_: Don't use bashism in /bin/sh18:45
ThaodanI wonder why the dbus interface of systemd isn't used vs. calling a shell script18:48
nephros_Thaodan: I try not to do bashisms, if there is one in it's in the other scripts as well. And I don't think "foo && bar" is a bashism or is it.18:50
Thaodanfunction is bashism18:50
nephros_ok, but the script is a straight bopy of all the others. I can clean up mine *and* the others if that's helpful.18:51
ThaodanCreate two pr for that then. In any case that is no excuse and still an issue. I can recommend to use shellcheck or checkbasisms (I suggest the first one).18:52
ThaodanBut as I said I'd prefer to use dbus directly instead of calling shell scripts.18:52
nephros_Fine, I'll do a posixify cleanup PR.18:55
ggabrielpoor bash, people keep bashing erm bash18:59
nephros_de-bashism PR created.20:22

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