| rinigus | morning! I wonder why haven't they mentioned qt update for sfos in the 10 years of jolla speech? you know, it would fit somewhere between the lines of world class developer experience... | 08:28 |
|---|---|---|
| rinigus | or is the plan to move on for 10 more years on qt5.6? | 08:28 |
| rinigus | before you ask - no, I have not heard about qt update plan either | 08:29 |
| Nekron[m] | rinigus I was wondering the same 🤔 ... all other stuff from the presentation looks good (VoLTE, better encryption and browser engine) alas the qt framework needs some polish at least, too | 08:39 |
| rinigus | Nekron: I guess those lawyers that come into the office and make that hard work from 9-17 every working day figuring out how can Jolla update Qt have not managed to find a solution. Knowing for how long did they work, would be great to see some whiteboard photos with the proposed solutions that failed on the last turn | 08:41 |
| Nekron[m] | Yeah they are stuck with the licensing stuff meanwhile qt gets more and more expensive | 08:55 |
| rinigus | They are stuck with their code being closed source and business model requiring it, if I understand it correctly. | 08:59 |
| rinigus | hence qt costs for developing it closed source | 08:59 |
| Nekron[m] | Whatever reason there is legacy qt base hinders development and the gap for a major overhaul gets bigger the longer they wait for an upgrade | 09:11 |
| Nekron[m] | So yes the lawyers are rising the price they have to pay in the end | 09:12 |
| poetaster | rinigus: there were no concrete plans about qt announced. and yes, as I in rather cruel twists put it to jolla employees (sorry guys) the value of your assets is declining rapidly. | 10:55 |
| poetaster | rinigus: I also mentioned, luks, waydroid, chum ... at that point they were drinking my beer :) | 10:59 |
| poetaster | still, my take away is the same as since Dec 2020. Signs of progress. Now piggz and rinigus have to apply the levers ;) | 10:59 |
| rinigus | poetaster: I would say that chum is increasing the value of the asset as it is making platform more attractive, in principle. | 11:03 |
| poetaster | rinigus: absolutely. I posed the question, does Jolla see the possibility of us steering to chum + signing -> harbour and the answers was affirmative. | 11:04 |
| rinigus | now waydroid and open-source solutions for components are opposite - there are less aspects to pay for | 11:04 |
| poetaster | rinigus: cautious, affirmative. | 11:05 |
| poetaster | we both know the roi on the open source can't be beat :-) | 11:06 |
| rinigus | poetaster: anything with harbour related - don't see much happening there in terms of store development | 11:06 |
| poetaster | rinigus: it's necessary. apple demonstrated you could launch and win with an alternative store :) | 11:07 |
| poetaster | rinigus: sometimes I think I should go looking for VC (used to be closer to that world) rather than spending my time on old software ;) | 11:08 |
| rinigus | but yes, delay with Qt update does make it more difficult to develop, less attractive for customers (B2B sense). anyway, back to coding... | 11:09 |
| rinigus | VC? | 11:09 |
| poetaster | venture capital. | 11:09 |
| poetaster | but I prefer the solution of you guys just creating so much momentum everyone comes along .... | 11:10 |
| Thaodan | waydroid is sill far away from AD. It just sounds attractive because its free. | 11:34 |
| rinigus | Thaodan: very probably true. never used AD and haven't really used waydroid either :) | 11:35 |
| piggz[m] | thaodan: it is far away from AD, but meetsaneed for some users on ports where AD is not possible | 11:45 |
| Thaodan | well it has been said already that we want ad on ports too, just takes some time | 12:05 |
| hnj | can I get openssl binaries (for using s_client, x509, etc.) or the gnutls equivalent installed on my jolla1 somehow? | 12:06 |
| hnj | oh, nvm, got it: pkcon install openssl | 12:07 |
| rinigus | Thaodan: problem is that "takes some time" could mean almost infinity if we take into account earlier experience. qt update comes to mind, doesn't it? :) | 12:10 |
| rinigus | right now it was very quiet regarding AD for ports and we have no timeframe for it either | 12:10 |
| Thaodan | Can't say anything about that, that's not my say , the only I can say that we are never not busy. It's not like it doesn't bother me either. | 12:13 |
| rinigus | Thaodan: we know that you will be in trouble otherwise, unless management will reconsider communication with the community. and I am sure it does bother Jolla developers a lot that they cannot provide clear best guess replies. as well as you have loooong pipeline of tasks... well, as most of us have on our jobs as well :) | 12:18 |
| rinigus | but anyway, we can try waydroid meanwhile and it seems to be developing nicely. may even work for banking/id apps which are probably one of the main targets for few of us | 12:19 |
| hnj | I have a problem with LetsEncrypt certificates on my jolla1, it seems: »openssl s_client -showcerts -connect valid-isrgrootx1.letsencrypt.org:443« says »Verify return code: 10 (certificate has expired)« which it shouldn’t IMHO if the Root CA Store really contained the ISRG X1 root as trusted. I checked and /etc/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt seems to contain the current cert but I’m not | 12:20 |
| hnj | sure how to tell whether it’s trusted. Any ideas how to fix this problem? | 12:20 |
| hnj | poetaster: you mentioned that there should be no problem with the current LE root certs. Do you spot anything I’m doing wrong? | 12:20 |
| Thaodan | he probably doesn't have the new root cas from let's encrypt | 12:21 |
| poetaster | hnj: I'm a dev+sys admin. I've seen one person with the problem (android user) pulling our feeds. | 12:26 |
| poetaster | Thaodan: on which OS? | 12:26 |
| poetaster | hnj: My jolla1 is still at 2.x so I'm expecting I can't test there. Die you try s_client specifying the ca-bundle? | 12:28 |
| poetaster | hnj: -CAfile | 12:29 |
| hnj | poetaster: yeah, tried again to make sure: http://ix.io/3BUt | 12:33 |
| hnj | the same command (without CAfile) on my desktop has no problem: http://ix.io/3BUv | 12:34 |
| poetaster | hnj: In the past, bad practice, I had to copy the ca-bundle (also all the root certs) into a very old vserver to connect it just for backups. | 12:36 |
| poetaster | hnj: you could try obtaining the certs and deploying them by hand. but that's messy. | 12:36 |
| poetaster | hnj: ist the openssl 1.0.x? | 12:37 |
| hnj | for some reason openssl on jolla considers the signature from DST Root CA X3 to be significant and the only reason I can think of is that the signature from the ISRG cert is not considered enough because that ISRG cert is not a trusted root. but I’m very unsure I’m on the right track with that … | 12:37 |
| hnj | poetaster: OpenSSL 1.0.2o-fips 27 Mar 2018 | 12:37 |
| hnj | is that too old? I read 1.0.2u somewhere mentioned in the context of the LE root expiry … | 12:38 |
| poetaster | hnj: Unfortunately this does not apply to OpenSSL 1.0.2 ... | 12:39 |
| poetaster | hnj: https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2021/09/13/LetsEncryptRootCertExpire/ | 12:39 |
| poetaster | hnj: he describes a work-a-round the ISRG | 12:40 |
| poetaster | hnj: another take on the same solution: https://garutilorenzo.github.io/fix-letsencrypt-root-certificate-expired-openssl-1.0.2/ | 12:41 |
| poetaster | hnj: the first link offers 3 solutions for 1.0.2. | 12:41 |
| hnj | poetaster: ooh, tricky … workaround 1 fixed it. thank you very much (: | 12:42 |
| poetaster | hnj: cool. it's kinda a hack. But you are hooped medium term. openssl 1.1.x is almost a must already. | 12:43 |
| poetaster | Thaodan: if you were to guess, how many developers do you guys need. serious question. | 12:43 |
| hnj | it’s interesting though that the webbrowser does not have that same issue o_O | 12:46 |
| hnj | poetaster: yeah /-: I wish there was a device on the mobile phone market I liked that ran sailfish properly but so far I couldn’t find one ): | 12:47 |
| poetaster | hnj: I know how you feel. I stopped using sailfish for 3 years. When volla came out I jumped on it. The device is ok. If one doesn't want to cough up for a volla proper, a GS290 (100-150 euros on ebay) is identical. | 12:48 |
| poetaster | hnj: but seeing what energy the porters are putting in, I'm inspired to try to push on the app side. | 12:50 |
| poetaster | oh, and the energy that Thaodan and the other Jolla devs are putting in too! | 12:50 |
| Thaodan | android is for free that does much I guess, you don't pay with money but with data | 12:51 |
| Thaodan | doesn't work for SailfishOS | 12:51 |
| hnj | hm, yeah, I’m really a bit sceptical about phones where only community ports exist … often enough it’s just one (knowledgeable) person behind that port and if they lose interest, I have a problem yet again … | 12:52 |
| hnj | and no one knows whether that will be in a month, a year, 5 years, … | 12:52 |
| poetaster | Thaodan: yeah, I'm for native and actually think you can go far with QT, but keeping up+license stuff.... | 12:53 |
| poetaster | hnj: you have 3.4 on a jolla1? | 12:53 |
| hnj | poetaster: yes. have been using it for almost 8 years now … | 12:54 |
| hnj | but since it doesn’t get updates anymore, I’ve been trying to find something for the next 8 years and nothing looks promising /-: | 12:55 |
| poetaster | hnj: no sure about 8 years, but I'll guess I can get 5 out of volla. And piggz is ALSO on the pinephone port. | 12:59 |
| hnj | poetaster: uuuh, I don’t understand how piggz and pinephone are related to volla, can you elaborate? | 13:00 |
| poetaster | hnj: he's the prime mover behind both ports. | 13:00 |
| hnj | ah thanks | 13:04 |
| hnj | so, GS290 is exactly the same hardware as the volla? | 13:04 |
| piggz | hnj: yes | 13:08 |
| hnj | piggz: thanks | 13:26 |
| hnj | the only gripe I have about it are its dimensions but that seems to be a general problem with almost all current devices: they are fucking huge! | 13:36 |
| *** mike7b4[m] is now known as sevenb4[m] | 16:34 | |
| *** mal_ is now known as mal | 17:25 | |
| x2s | Short update to my bluetooth problem. Did some driving today. BT worked all the time. Tomorrow I'm going to do the same. I'm still suspicious | 18:24 |
| poetaster | hnj: I also have mal's port on an Fairphone 2. And FP3 is maybe coming, soon? But I think it's worth looking at a volla/GS290. | 18:40 |
| hnj | poetaster: yeah, I considered a fairphone2 as well but it seems not to be very available … and FP3 is another possibly great candidate but if there is no port yet, I imagine it will take another (half) year until it’s really stable/usable. | 18:42 |
| rinigus | hnj: problem with fp3 port is that its author - mal - is perfectionist. it is most probably very solid port at this stage but there are tiny-tiny problems with it. so, the best way is to ask him to release it | 18:44 |
| poetaster | hnj: I've been trying to convince mal for months. Put your voice in :) | 18:45 |
| hnj | rinigus: hehe, I get that, I’m somewhat of a scie^Wperfectionist myself | 18:47 |
| poetaster | must bring a child to bed, goodnigh all. | 18:47 |
| hnj | poetaster: good luck! | 18:47 |
| rinigus | enjoy | 18:47 |
| poetaster | thanks! | 18:47 |
| hnj | mal: hi, can you say something about the status of the fp3 port? did you consider making a "beta" release for all us desperate souls? (; | 18:50 |
| mal | everything was working except a small issue with fingerprint support and not sure if maybe some other small issue | 18:54 |
| hnj | mal: sounds promising! | 18:55 |
| mal | that was months ago | 18:56 |
| mal | I was never satisfied with it | 18:56 |
| mal | then I didn't have to do enough testing to release it | 18:57 |
| hnj | mal: err, "have time to do enough testing"? I fail to parse … | 18:58 |
| mal | missing the word time | 18:59 |
| hnj | ah, that’s what I thought, thanks for clarifying (: | 19:00 |
| mal | too many projects and too much work to test it properly | 19:00 |
| hnj | I can imagine, often a problem for me, too … how would making a "beta" or "dev" release sound to you? seems like other people would do some testing and maybe even some of the issues will get patched by someone else … (I have no idea what I’m talking about, though, I have never ported a mobile OS to a new device and have no clue whatsoever about the whole sailfish eco system, etc, so | 19:05 |
| hnj | feel free to tell me "no, shut up about it"!) | 19:05 |
| mal | maybe I should try to get it working again | 19:13 |
| mal | although I started to think if I should move to hybris-18.1 base | 19:23 |
| hnj | mal: it sounded to me like some people would be grateful (: it’d probably just make it harder for me, though. ATM I only really have to decide whether I buy a GS290 at all. when you make a release, I’ll have to decide whether to buy a GS290 or a FP3 :D | 19:23 |
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