Saturday, 2021-10-16

rinigusmorning! I wonder why haven't they mentioned qt update for sfos in the 10 years of jolla speech? you know, it would fit somewhere between the lines of world class developer experience...08:28
rinigusor is the plan to move on for 10 more years on qt5.6?08:28
rinigusbefore you ask - no, I have not heard about qt update plan either08:29
Nekron[m]rinigus I was wondering the same 🤔 ... all other stuff from the presentation looks good (VoLTE, better encryption and browser engine) alas the qt framework needs some polish at least, too08:39
rinigusNekron: I guess those lawyers that come into the office and make that hard work from 9-17 every working day figuring out how can Jolla update Qt have not managed to find a solution. Knowing for how long did they work, would be great to see some whiteboard photos with the proposed solutions that failed on the last turn08:41
Nekron[m]Yeah they are stuck with the licensing stuff meanwhile qt gets more and more expensive08:55
rinigusThey are stuck with their code being closed source and business model requiring it, if I understand it correctly.08:59
rinigushence qt costs for developing it closed source08:59
Nekron[m]Whatever reason there is legacy qt base hinders development and the gap for a major overhaul gets bigger the longer they wait for an upgrade09:11
Nekron[m]So yes the lawyers are rising the price they have to pay in the end09:12
poetasterrinigus: there were no concrete plans about qt announced. and yes, as I in rather cruel twists put it to jolla employees (sorry guys) the value of your assets is declining rapidly.10:55
poetasterrinigus: I also mentioned, luks, waydroid, chum ... at that point they were drinking my beer :)10:59
poetasterstill, my take away is the same as since Dec 2020. Signs of progress. Now piggz and rinigus have to apply the levers ;)10:59
riniguspoetaster: I would say that chum is increasing the value of the asset as it is making platform more attractive, in principle.11:03
poetasterrinigus: absolutely. I posed the question, does Jolla see the possibility of us steering to chum + signing -> harbour and the answers was affirmative.11:04
rinigusnow waydroid and open-source solutions for components are opposite - there are less aspects to pay for11:04
poetasterrinigus: cautious, affirmative.11:05
poetasterwe both know the roi on the open source can't be beat :-)11:06
riniguspoetaster: anything with harbour related - don't see much happening there in terms of store development11:06
poetasterrinigus: it's necessary. apple demonstrated you could launch and win with an alternative store :)11:07
poetasterrinigus: sometimes I think I should go looking for VC (used to be closer to that world) rather than spending my time on old software ;)11:08
rinigusbut yes, delay with Qt update does make it more difficult to develop, less attractive for customers (B2B sense). anyway, back to coding...11:09
poetasterventure capital.11:09
poetasterbut I prefer the solution of you guys just creating so much momentum everyone comes along ....11:10
Thaodanwaydroid is sill far away from AD. It just sounds attractive because its free.11:34
rinigusThaodan: very probably true. never used AD and haven't really used waydroid either :)11:35
piggz[m]thaodan: it is far away from AD, but meetsaneed for some users on ports where AD is not possible11:45
Thaodanwell it has been said already that we want ad on ports too, just takes some time12:05
hnjcan I get openssl binaries (for using s_client, x509, etc.) or the gnutls equivalent installed on my jolla1 somehow?12:06
hnjoh, nvm, got it: pkcon install openssl12:07
rinigusThaodan: problem is that "takes some time" could mean almost infinity if we take into account earlier experience. qt update comes to mind, doesn't it? :)12:10
rinigusright now it was very quiet regarding AD for ports and we have no timeframe for it either12:10
ThaodanCan't say anything about that, that's not my say , the only I can say that  we are never not busy.  It's not like it doesn't bother me either.12:13
rinigusThaodan: we know that you will be in trouble otherwise, unless management will reconsider communication with the community. and I am sure it does bother Jolla developers a lot that they cannot provide clear best guess replies. as well as you have loooong pipeline of tasks... well, as most of us have on our jobs as well :)12:18
rinigusbut anyway, we can try waydroid meanwhile and it seems to be developing nicely. may even work for banking/id apps which are probably one of the main targets for few of us12:19
hnjI have a problem with LetsEncrypt certificates on my jolla1, it seems: »openssl s_client -showcerts -connect« says »Verify return code: 10 (certificate has expired)« which it shouldn’t IMHO if the Root CA Store really contained the ISRG X1 root as trusted. I checked and /etc/ssl/certs/ca-bundle.crt seems to contain the current cert but I’m not12:20
hnjsure how to tell whether it’s trusted. Any ideas how to fix this problem?12:20
hnjpoetaster: you mentioned that there should be no problem with the current LE root certs. Do you spot anything I’m doing wrong?12:20
Thaodanhe probably doesn't have the new root cas from let's encrypt12:21
poetasterhnj: I'm a dev+sys admin. I've seen one person with the problem (android user) pulling our feeds.12:26
poetasterThaodan: on which OS?12:26
poetasterhnj: My jolla1 is still at 2.x so I'm expecting I can't test there. Die you try s_client specifying the ca-bundle?12:28
poetasterhnj: -CAfile12:29
hnjpoetaster: yeah, tried again to make sure:
hnjthe same command (without CAfile) on my desktop has no problem:
poetasterhnj: In the past, bad practice, I had to copy the ca-bundle (also all the root certs) into a very old vserver to connect it just for backups.12:36
poetasterhnj: you could try obtaining the certs and deploying them by hand. but that's messy.12:36
poetasterhnj: ist the openssl 1.0.x?12:37
hnjfor some reason openssl on jolla considers the signature from DST Root CA X3 to be significant and the only reason I can think of is that the signature from the ISRG cert is not considered enough because that ISRG cert is not a trusted root. but I’m very unsure I’m on the right track with that …12:37
hnjpoetaster: OpenSSL 1.0.2o-fips  27 Mar 201812:37
hnjis that too old? I read 1.0.2u somewhere mentioned in the context of the LE root expiry …12:38
poetasterhnj: Unfortunately this does not apply to OpenSSL 1.0.2 ...12:39
poetasterhnj: he describes a work-a-round the ISRG12:40
poetasterhnj: another take on the same solution:
poetasterhnj: the first link offers 3 solutions for
hnjpoetaster: ooh, tricky … workaround 1 fixed it. thank you very much (:12:42
poetasterhnj: cool. it's kinda a hack. But you are hooped medium term. openssl 1.1.x is almost a must already.12:43
poetasterThaodan: if you were to guess, how many developers do you guys need. serious question.12:43
hnjit’s interesting though that the webbrowser does not have that same issue o_O12:46
hnjpoetaster: yeah /-: I wish there was a device on the mobile phone market I liked that ran sailfish properly but so far I couldn’t find one ):12:47
poetasterhnj: I know how you feel. I stopped using sailfish for 3 years. When volla came out I jumped on it. The device is ok. If one doesn't want to cough up for a volla proper, a GS290 (100-150 euros on ebay) is identical.12:48
poetasterhnj: but seeing what energy the porters are putting in, I'm inspired to try to push on the app side.12:50
poetasteroh, and the energy that Thaodan and the other Jolla devs are putting in too!12:50
Thaodanandroid is for free that does much I guess, you don't pay with money but with data12:51
Thaodandoesn't work for SailfishOS12:51
hnjhm, yeah, I’m really a bit sceptical about phones where only community ports exist … often enough it’s just one (knowledgeable) person behind that port and if they lose interest, I have a problem yet again …12:52
hnjand no one knows whether that will be in a month, a year, 5 years, …12:52
poetasterThaodan: yeah, I'm for native and actually think you can go far with QT, but keeping up+license stuff....12:53
poetasterhnj: you have 3.4 on a jolla1?12:53
hnjpoetaster: yes. have been using it for almost 8 years now …12:54
hnjbut since it doesn’t get updates anymore, I’ve been trying to find something for the next 8 years and nothing looks promising /-:12:55
poetasterhnj: no sure about 8 years, but I'll guess I can get 5 out of volla. And piggz is ALSO on the pinephone port.12:59
hnjpoetaster: uuuh, I don’t understand how piggz and pinephone are related to volla, can you elaborate?13:00
poetasterhnj: he's the prime mover behind both ports.13:00
hnjah thanks13:04
hnjso, GS290 is exactly the same hardware as the volla?13:04
piggzhnj: yes13:08
hnjpiggz: thanks13:26
hnjthe only gripe I have about it are its dimensions but that seems to be a general problem with almost all current devices: they are fucking huge!13:36
*** mike7b4[m] is now known as sevenb4[m]16:34
*** mal_ is now known as mal17:25
x2sShort update to my bluetooth problem. Did some driving today. BT worked all the time. Tomorrow I'm going to do the same. I'm still suspicious18:24
poetasterhnj: I also have mal's port on an Fairphone 2. And FP3 is maybe coming, soon? But I think it's worth looking at a volla/GS290.18:40
hnjpoetaster: yeah, I considered a fairphone2 as well but it seems not to be very available … and FP3 is another possibly great candidate but if there is no port yet, I imagine it will take another (half) year until it’s really stable/usable.18:42
rinigushnj: problem with fp3 port is that its author - mal - is perfectionist. it is most probably very solid port at this stage but there are tiny-tiny problems with it. so, the best way is to ask him to release it18:44
poetasterhnj: I've been trying to convince mal for months. Put your voice in :)18:45
hnjrinigus: hehe, I get that, I’m somewhat of a scie^Wperfectionist myself18:47
poetastermust bring a child to bed, goodnigh all.18:47
hnjpoetaster: good luck!18:47
hnjmal: hi, can you say something about the status of the fp3 port? did you consider making a "beta" release for all us desperate souls? (;18:50
maleverything was working except a small issue with fingerprint support and not sure if maybe some other small issue18:54
hnjmal: sounds promising!18:55
malthat was months ago18:56
malI was never satisfied with it18:56
malthen I didn't have to do enough testing to release it18:57
hnjmal: err, "have time to do enough testing"? I fail to parse …18:58
malmissing the word time18:59
hnjah, that’s what I thought, thanks for clarifying (:19:00
maltoo many projects and too much work to test it properly19:00
hnjI can imagine, often a problem for me, too … how would making a "beta" or "dev" release sound to you? seems like other people would do some testing and maybe even some of the issues will get patched by someone else … (I have no idea what I’m talking about, though, I have never ported a mobile OS to a new device and have no clue whatsoever about the whole sailfish eco system, etc, so19:05
hnjfeel free to tell me "no, shut up about it"!)19:05
malmaybe I should try to get it working again19:13
malalthough I started to think if I should move to hybris-18.1 base19:23
hnjmal: it sounded to me like some people would be grateful (: it’d probably just make it harder for me, though. ATM I only really have to decide whether I buy a GS290 at all. when you make a release, I’ll have to decide whether to buy a GS290 or a FP3 :D19:23

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