#sailfishos-meeting: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 2nd February 2023

Meeting started by flypig at 08:01:21 UTC (full logs).

Meeting summary

    1. Meeting information and agenda can be found here: (flypig, 08:01:30)
    2. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/community-meeting-on-irc-2nd-february-2023/14091 (flypig, 08:01:33)

  2. Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (flypig, 08:02:12)
    1. just a regular user (lolek, 08:02:35)
    2. David Llewellyn-Jones - Sailor @ Jolla and the chair today (flypig, 08:02:41)
    3. Ville Nummela - sailor @ jolla (ViGe, 08:02:56)
    4. jojo regular user (jojo_, 08:03:06)
    5. nephros, community member, (and bug squishing team) (nephros, 08:03:28)
    6. Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla (sledges, 08:04:17)
    7. Damien Caliste, community (dcaliste, 08:04:20)
    8. Pekka Vuorela, Jolla (pvuorela, 08:05:51)
    9. Otto Mäkelä, community (ExTechOp, 08:06:18)

  3. Sailfish OS system encryption (5 mins -- asked by lolek) (flypig, 08:09:49)
    1. <lolek> Current encryption implementation in SFOS is almost useless because of very easy way of breaking it. (flypig, 08:09:57)
    2. <lolek> Some time ago there was info that Jolla is working on improving it. (flypig, 08:10:04)
    3. <lolek> There's also a community version of a solution made by rinigus to fix this issue. (flypig, 08:10:08)
    4. <lolek> When will this get finally fixed/implemented as it's critical from the security point of view. (flypig, 08:10:13)
    5. <Jolla> We recognise this is a feature that many users consider important, and we commend rinigus's work on a community implementation. (flypig, 08:10:47)
    6. <Jolla> In fact we've been working on an implementation of alphanumeric security codes for some time, and you can expect it to arrive in the next release. (flypig, 08:10:53)
    7. Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla (Thaodan, 08:13:52)
    8. https://github.com/sailfishos-open/sailfish-device-encryption-community (nephros, 08:18:42)
    9. rinigus's solution supports hwcrypt, and this may be a topic to come back to in a future meeting. (flypig, 08:25:00)

  4. Different sounds for different sim/user/group/alarm (5 mins -- asked by lolek) (flypig, 08:30:38)
    1. <lolek> Different sounds for different sim/user/group/alarm is a critical feature especially for those who are using dual sim functionality. (flypig, 08:30:45)
    2. <lolek> So at least for the beginning it would be great to have: (flypig, 08:30:52)
    3. 1) different ringtone for every sim card; (flypig, 08:30:56)
    4. 2) different ringtone for contact specified as favourites; (flypig, 08:31:00)
    5. 3) different ringtone for each alarm; (flypig, 08:31:03)
    6. 4) different ringtone for every contact. (flypig, 08:31:07)
    7. <lolek> Please state when we can expect this. (flypig, 08:31:12)
    8. <Jolla> We agree this is a nice feature, and changes that we've introduced in the upcoming release have been designed to make an implementation easier, by routing ringtone requests via the user interface code. See for example the following PR. (flypig, 08:31:37)
    9. https://github.com/sailfishos/voicecall/pull/8 (flypig, 08:31:42)
    10. <Jolla> However, more work is needed to integrate it with the Contacts app. We can't therefore give any guarantees about a future implementation. (flypig, 08:31:50)
    11. <Jolla> For some context, the Personal Ringtones app from rinigus offers this as a third-party feature. (flypig, 08:31:57)
    12. https://openrepos.net/content/coderus/personal-ringtones (flypig, 08:32:05)
    13. <Jolla> We discussed it during a community meeting in August 2021 and some useful links for anyone interested in contributing to development are provided in the minutes. (flypig, 08:32:10)
    14. https://irclogs.sailfishos.org/meetings/sailfishos-meeting/2021/sailfishos-meeting.2021-08-05-07.00.html (flypig, 08:32:13)
    15. It was noted that ringtones for simcard and alarms would be a nice first step, and potentially achievable. (flypig, 08:43:58)
    16. For community help, pvuorela noted that profiled and voicecall are open source, and the contacts backend too, but this requires UI side changes, so it may not be so easy to propose changes from the community's side. (flypig, 08:47:22)

  5. Current Gallery App has a bug - loading files from unwanted folders (5 mins -- asked by lolek) (flypig, 08:48:06)
  6. Current Gallery App has a bug - loading files from unwanted folders (5 mins -- asked by lolek) (flypig, 08:48:21)
    1. <lolek> This is actually seen in the gallery app but the issue is maybe related to tracker. (flypig, 08:48:25)
    2. <lolek> The second link mentions about Folder View in gallery as also limiting which directory is scanned for images. (flypig, 08:48:34)
    3. <lolek> The gallery app should get a configuration option to allow us to exclude unwanted directories from showing up in it. (flypig, 08:48:42)
    4. <lolek> When we can expect this to be fixed/implemented? (flypig, 08:48:47)
    5. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/gallery-app-loading-images-outside-of-image-folders/13516 (flypig, 08:48:50)
    6. https://together.jolla.com/question/1948/feature-request-folderalbum-view-in-gallery (flypig, 08:48:53)
    7. <Jolla> After looking into this, it's already the case that images in the Music folders don't appear in the Gallery. (flypig, 08:49:09)
    8. <Jolla> On further discussion, it transpired that the problem images were stored on an SD card. (flypig, 08:49:16)
    9. <Jolla> We don't have any plans to change the way tracker handles SD cards, or to introduce configuration options in the user interface for this. (flypig, 08:49:21)
    10. <Jolla> However, tracker itself does have configuration options, and the Gallery App QML can also be tweaked for more specific requirements (see /usr/share/jolla-gallery/gallery.qml), at your own risk! (flypig, 08:49:30)
    11. https://gnome.pages.gitlab.gnome.org/tracker/faq (flypig, 08:49:39)
    12. Cryx - community; late but here before my topics (Cryx, 09:00:48)
    13. There was a lot of discussion about different options, but none that lolek was satisfied with as a solution for the issue experienced. (flypig, 09:03:13)
    14. lolek provided a useful link to the Android approach. (flypig, 09:03:27)
    15. https://developer.android.com/training/data-storage/shared/media (flypig, 09:03:36)

  7. Security of stored credentials (10 mins -- asked by lolek) (flypig, 09:04:34)
    1. <lolek> For the built in mail client credentials are stored in plain text and easily accessible having just elevated privileges. (flypig, 09:04:51)
    2. <lolek> This is something that shouldn't be possible in current world. Malicious app can escalate privileges and could easily get mail credentials. (flypig, 09:05:26)
    3. <lolek> I proposed a solution in the following thread. I'd like to know what are the plans to fix the problem of having password so easily accessible. (flypig, 09:05:34)
    4. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/someone-else-with-clear-mail-password-in-home-defaultuser-config-signond-signon-secrets-db/10842/9 (flypig, 09:05:48)
    5. <Jolla> There are security benefits to encrypting the credentials separately from the device encryption, but these benefits are not as big as they may appear. (flypig, 09:06:18)
    6. <Jolla> Any implementation would require the unencrypted credentials to be stored in memory, with similar risks from elevated privileges as the current implementation. (flypig, 09:06:24)
    7. <Jolla> In both cases developer credentials, or a successful privilege escalation attack, are needed to access the unencrypted credentials. (flypig, 09:06:33)
    8. <Jolla> Our focus is therefore on avoiding the need to store any passwords on your device by moving accounts to OAuth2 so there is no need to store passwords at all. (flypig, 09:06:41)
    9. <Jolla> See for example this StackOverflow comment for a similar perspective: (flypig, 09:06:52)
    10. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1925486/android-storing-username-and-password#comment3608058_1925534 (flypig, 09:06:56)
    11. <Jolla> For app developers we recommend storing credentials using Sailfish Secrets, since apps don't have privileged access. (flypig, 09:07:01)
    12. https://docs.sailfishos.org/Reference/Core_Areas_and_APIs/Apps_and_MW/Secrets_and_Crypto/ (flypig, 09:07:04)
    13. Protection is still needed for accounts that don't support OAuth2, TEE may therefore be something to consider for that. (flypig, 09:20:48)

  8. New demo apps (5 mins -- asked by jojo) (flypig, 09:24:36)
    1. <jojo> Currently the only demo app we have from Jolla is the component gallery app. (flypig, 09:24:43)
    2. <jojo> It would be nice to have additional demo apps showing how to use other components of the device such as the camera, Bluetooth sharing, uploading documents, etc. (flypig, 09:24:48)
    3. <jojo> The docs on these topics are also very thin. Could Jolla provide such docs? (flypig, 09:24:55)
    4. <jojo> To avoid having to dig into the git repos of other apps to try guessing how it works. (flypig, 09:25:02)
    5. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/component-gallery-app-more-functionalities-to-the-demo/14129 (flypig, 09:25:07)
    6. <Jolla> We do provide a few other examples as part of the SDK: Camera Gallery, Lipstick Notifications Gallery, Media Gallery as well as the Component Gallery. (flypig, 09:25:34)
    7. <Jolla> Select "Welcome" then "Examples" in the Sailfish IDE to try them (or check the examples folder in the SDK installation). (flypig, 09:25:40)
    8. <Jolla> We also provide sample apps on GitHub to demonstrate C, C++ and QML usage of libsailfishapp. (flypig, 09:25:46)
    9. https://github.com/sailfishos/sample-app-c (flypig, 09:25:50)
    10. https://github.com/sailfishos/sample-app-cppqml (flypig, 09:25:56)
    11. <Jolla> We've been working hard updating the docs recently, as you can see from Damien's Repository Roundups. (flypig, 09:26:05)
    12. <Jolla> But we always like suggestions for improving them. We're also always happy to receive PRs to our docs or new example apps for the SDK. (flypig, 09:26:10)
    13. <Jolla> Ideally these should be provided in a public git repo with a BSD licence. (flypig, 09:26:16)
    14. jojo suggested additional examples related to the following would be useful: selecting documents using the Pickers and controlling keyboard autocomplete suggestions. (flypig, 09:36:22)
    15. Please contact jojo on the forum with suggestions for autocomplete usage code. (flypig, 09:39:52)

  9. Handling of X10 III hardware button (Assistant Button) (15 mins -- asked by nephros) (flypig, 09:40:05)
    1. <nephros> Question 1: Making the key accessible to the OS components: (flypig, 09:40:13)
    2. <nephros> 1) re-use the existing functionality of MCE and lipstic-jolla-home; (flypig, 09:40:22)
    3. <nephros> 2) Replicate handling HOME key in MCE with separate signal to lipstick; (flypig, 09:40:26)
    4. <nephros> 3) Similar to 1 and 2 but handle it in the evdev codepath of MCE; (flypig, 09:40:31)
    5. <nephros> 4) make the code known to Qt instead of MCE; (flypig, 09:40:37)
    6. <nephros> 5) other? (flypig, 09:40:40)
    7. <nephros> Question 2: Handling key press events: Once the button press can be signalled to the OS, it should do something. Preferably this should be user-configurable: (flypig, 09:40:43)
    8. <nephros> 1) hardcode UI actions in Lipstick; (flypig, 09:40:51)
    9. <nephros> 2) something similar to the power key using MCE and DBus calls; (flypig, 09:40:58)
    10. <nephros> 3) DConf key containing .desktop file to launch; (flypig, 09:41:01)
    11. <nephros> 4) set of DConf keys to trigger a DBus call; (flypig, 09:41:04)
    12. <nephros> 5) hardcode a Jolla-conceived very sexy killer feature. (flypig, 09:41:07)
    13. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/xperia-10-iii-make-google-assistant-button-a-camera-trigger/8983 (flypig, 09:41:17)
    14. <Jolla> Thanks for working on this, it would certainly be nice functionality. (flypig, 09:41:53)
    15. <Jolla> As this is a detailed question, rather than give a prepared answer, we've invited some of the relevant Sailors to join the discussion. (flypig, 09:41:57)
    16. https://postimg.cc/gallery/YQP2hs2 (nephros, 09:50:06)
    17. https://github.com/sailfishos/mce/pull/21 (nephros, 09:55:46)
    18. pherjung, community (pherjung[m], 09:56:12)
    19. nephros still needs more input to make progress with this. More discussion and direction on the PR would be useful. (flypig, 09:56:44)

  10. Current policy for support of new devices (10 mins -- asked by lolek) (flypig, 09:57:23)
    1. <lolek> Maybe it's time again to rethink the support of new device and skip every second one? (flypig, 09:57:28)
    2. <lolek> Or get back to some conversation with the Indian government? Or maybe even add option to get subscription-based support? (flypig, 09:57:34)
    3. <lolek> Either way is fine to get more human power to move on and give us really viable alternative to iOS and Android. (flypig, 09:57:41)
    4. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sony-xperia-10iv-for-299/14230 (flypig, 09:57:46)
    5. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/why-doesn-t-jolla-lobby-indian-government-for-sailfishos-release/14190 (flypig, 09:57:50)
    6. <Jolla> Thanks for your suggestions. As it happens, we're currently reviewing both our device support and pricing strategy, so what you've provided is useful input. (flypig, 09:58:21)
    7. <Jolla> We're not planning any changes in the short term, but we've been following the discussions on the forum carefully and are interested in all views. (flypig, 09:58:30)
    8. <Jolla> Please keep an eye on the forums, as we plan to invite more feedback there. (flypig, 09:58:35)

  11. Behaviour of location services (5 mins -- asked by Cryx) (flypig, 10:07:52)
    1. <Cryx> Location service starts to get a GPS fix when an app actively requests it. (flypig, 10:07:59)
    2. <Cryx> This way geotagging of photos is not possible as the time for a fix is too long. (flypig, 10:08:06)
    3. <Cryx> It's unclear if this is a bug or battery-saving feature. (flypig, 10:08:10)
    4. <Cryx> If the latter then there should be a toggle implemented in location settings to choose between the current behaviour and always-on. (flypig, 10:08:16)
    5. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/q-how-can-i-change-behavior-of-location-in-upper-menu-turn-on-gps-immediately-after-enabling-location/14272 (flypig, 10:08:24)
    6. <Jolla> You raise a good point: there is certainly a trade-off between a fast GNSS fix and battery usage. (flypig, 10:08:37)
    7. <Jolla> Some work was already done on this to support Advanced Mobile Location (AML) released in 4.4.0.64. (flypig, 10:08:43)
    8. <Jolla> We're not actively considering continuous GNSS. However, if you'd like to look into it further, we recommend the following steps. (flypig, 10:08:49)
    9. <Jolla> 1. In /etc/location/location.conf and /var/lib/location/location.conf edit "enabled" to be "true" to move positioning to a higher level of standby. (flypig, 10:09:00)
    10. <Jolla> 2. Create a service to periodically poll position using geoclue. See the Positioning docs for info about geoclue. Ideally, have the service reduce polling when the screen is blanked. (flypig, 10:09:09)
    11. <Jolla> 4. If it works well, let us know and we'll look at it seriously. (flypig, 10:09:13)
    12. https://docs.sailfishos.org/Reference/Core_Areas_and_APIs/Apps_and_MW/Positioning/#platform-api (flypig, 10:09:16)
    13. Note: 3. Isn't missing; 4. was incorrectly numbered. (flypig, 10:12:10)
    14. <sledges> if above suggestion is too techy, there's a battery-hungry workaround: run CSD GPS test continuously (launch from Settings | About product | tap Build number 5 times | All tests | GPS Satellite Lock) (flypig, 10:13:05)
    15. https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/release-notes-struven-ketju-4-5-0-16/14290 (ViGe, 10:15:54)

  12. "Find my Phone"-Feature (5 mins -- asked by Cryx) (flypig, 10:18:17)
    1. <Cryx> Would it be possible to implement a feature to locate the phone? (flypig, 10:18:21)
    2. <Cryx> I mainly think about support for the NextCloud PhoneTrack feature, especially as NextCloud is already implemented into the system. (flypig, 10:18:26)
    3. <Cryx> A second option would be writing the last location data in regular cycles to a defined cloud service. (flypig, 10:18:31)
    4. <Cryx> https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/phonetrack (flypig, 10:18:34)
    5. <Jolla> It would certainly be possible, and it would be a great feature. We'd actually recommend using the Sailfish MDM framework for this, specifically LocationSettings and LocationInfo: (flypig, 10:18:46)
    6. https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/sailfish-mdm/sailfish-mdm-locationsettings.html/ (flypig, 10:18:49)
    7. https://sailfishos.org/develop/docs/sailfish-mdm/sailfish-mdm-locationinfo.html/ (flypig, 10:18:52)

  13. Open PR discussion (5 mins -- asked by jolla) (flypig, 10:30:53)
    1. <jolla> Any open PRs to discuss? (flypig, 10:30:57)
    2. https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-browser/pull/959 (pherjung[m], 10:33:28)

  14. Untracked bug reports (5 mins -- asked by pherjung) (flypig, 10:39:46)
    1. <pherjung> Untracked bug reports... (see the forum) (flypig, 10:39:54)
    2. <Jolla> Thank you again for all of your work in checking and collating bug reports. (flypig, 10:39:59)
    3. <Jolla> Here are the results: (flypig, 10:40:03)
    4. <Jolla> - 8 high quality bug reports now recorded internally and tagged as "tracked". (flypig, 10:40:06)
    5. <Jolla> - 2 bug reports tagged as "fixed". (flypig, 10:40:10)

  15. General discussion (10 min) (flypig, 10:46:01)
  16. Next meeting time and date (5 min) (flypig, 10:56:20)
    1. Next meeting will be held on Thursday 16th February 2023 at 08:00am UTC: 2023-02-16T0800Z (flypig, 10:57:54)


Meeting ended at 11:01:10 UTC (full logs).

Action items

  1. (none)


People present (lines said)

  1. flypig (322)
  2. lolek (108)
  3. Thaodan (50)
  4. nephros (41)
  5. piggz_ (27)
  6. jojo_ (24)
  7. Cryx (16)
  8. pvuorela (15)
  9. pherjung[m] (13)
  10. ExTechOp (12)
  11. Nico (12)
  12. abr (12)
  13. ViGe (11)
  14. dcaliste (7)
  15. sledges (6)
  16. sailbot (2)
  17. Keto (2)
  18. sebix[m] (1)


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