Thursday, 2021-05-06

ThaodanLets see if the bridge works properly06:30
flypig_Thaodan: your message made it across.06:39
ThaodanA fly pig ahoy :)06:40
flypig_Ahoy hoy :)06:40
ThaodanThat's what you should say on a phone when someone calls you06:41
ExTechOpI always answer "Mortuary, abattoir, and delicatessen, head butcher NN speaking"06:44
Nico[m]That's a mouthful06:45
Thaodanthat's what she said06:59
sledges#startmeeting Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 202107:00
sailbotMeeting started Thu May  6 07:00:00 2021 UTC. The chair is sledges. Information about MeetBot at
sailbotUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021)"07:00
sledges#info Meeting information and agenda can be found here:07:00
sledgesI am the meeting's chairperson today, and will be doing my best to keep time and order. May revenge of the 6th be with you, always, and please respect the timings.07:00
sledges#topic Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info07:00
*** sailbot changes topic to "Brief introduction (5 min). Please prefix your name/handle with #info (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021)"07:00
sledges#info Simonas Leleiva -- privateer for Jolla07:00
ViGe#info Ville Nummela - Sailor @ Jolla07:00
Nico[m]#info Nico, community07:01
Thaodan#info Björn Bidar - Sailor @ Jolla07:01
jpetrell#info Joona Petrell, sailor07:01
dcaliste#info Damien Caliste, community07:01
ExTechOp#info Otto Mäkelä, community07:02
karry#info Lukáš Karas - community developer07:03
pketo#info Pami Ketolainen - Sailor @ Jolla07:03
flypig#info David Llewellyn-Jones - Sailor @ Jolla07:03
* sledges jolla 6:4 community07:04
abranson#info Andrew Branson - sailing by07:05
sledgesany more goals?:)07:05
rubdos[ma]#info Ruben De Smet - voting for community07:05
veskuh#info Vesa-Matti Hartikainen, Sailor @ Jolla07:05
sledgesa whooping 8:5 victory by jolla :D07:06
sledges#topic Legality of distribution of /system and /vendor images for Sony OpenDevices (10 min -- asked by rinigus)07:06
*** sailbot changes topic to "Legality of distribution of /system and /vendor images for Sony OpenDevices (10 min -- asked by rinigus) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021)"07:06
sledges#info <rinigus> In the build guide for Xperia 10II, there is a phrase regarding distribution of binaries:07:06
Thaodansledges: there are a few on Telegram side of the meeting07:06
Nico[m]That's a lot of people today!07:06
sledgesThaodan: there are silent lurkers here too, but we are counting introductions;)07:06
sledges#info <rinigus>     Please do not commit the binaries nor push them to a public repo,07:07
sledges#info <rinigus>     because the license has not been determined,07:07
sledges#info <rinigus>     thus they have to be built manually07:07
sledges#info <rinigus> Legality of distribution of /system and /vendor was also questioned by @sledges in the recent Community meeting (at 07:42:50)07:07
sledges#info <rinigus> In my understanding, it is legal to distribute AOSP bits as they are built from open source projects and, in the case of Sony OpenDevices, there are separate OEM binaries that are distributed exclusively via Sony.07:07
sledges#info <rinigus> So, to resolve the mystery around distribution and make conditions clear, let me approach the topic from another angle.07:07
sledges#info <rinigus> Namely, I would expect that the same limitations in distribution of binaries that include /system and /vendor partition should apply to us, community members, as well as Jolla.07:07
sledges#info <rinigus> Hence the question: On which legal grounds does Jolla distribute builds of Sony Xperia devices within its Sailfish X program?07:08
sledges#info <rinigus> Jolla has a site from which we can download such binaries as well as provide them via RPMs downloadable on devices as a part of updates (mentioned in the same meeting and available via log linked above). From that, I conclude that legal aspects were studied and resolved. Please share that with the community, so we would not be confused about the status of the distribution.07:08
sledgesphew now that was a lengthy one:) rinigus is probably not around, but here comes the answer07:08
sledges#info <Jolla> All Sony-related software distributed by Jolla is free and open-source software built from sources. Proprietary parts are downloaded from Sony website.07:08
piggz#info piggz, community porter/dev/lurker07:09
rinigusMorning, I can just pass by mainly07:09
rinigusThank you for reply07:09
santhoshm#info Santhosh Manikandan Community07:09
rinigusDoes it mean that it is legal to distribute sony aosp builds and the phrase from xperia ii readme should be deleted?07:10
ThaodanNote in Android 10 /odm is a distinguishable partition used by all vendors: destingh07:10
rinigusAnd sledges should not confuse us in future?07:11
sledgesrinigus: i'm just a messenger :P07:11
lbt_#nfo David Greaves - delayed sailor :)07:12
Thaodanrinigus: Note on the name, a sledge does not talk07:12
sledgesrinigus: sorry about resulting confusion, the message was also been abiding the policy of pushing only-binaries to a github repo considered bad practice07:12
rinigusOk rephrasing: and sledges should not be confused in future?07:12
sledgesyes, let's hope for the best. many sledges are better than one Thaodan :P07:13
rinigusBut sounds like all is clear for me, i have nothing to add07:13
Thaodan could be useful to link for the current situation since blobs should end up there for native Android 10 ports07:13
sledgesand droid-system licence will have to be rectified -- that was another fly in the ointment, rinigus07:13
Thaodansledges: You don't know the real me :p07:14
sledgesThaodan: lol I actually meant "s/ Thaodan/, Thaodan/" :P07:14
ThaodanTz get some coffee07:15
sledgesstarship gave me enough coffee substitute :P07:15
sledgesrinigus: anything else after the last comment? ^^07:15
ThaodanFlying home soon sledges?07:16
sledgesstill quarantine :P07:16
sledgeswill have to self-isolate on Mars07:16
sledgessilence means consent, moving on07:17
sledges#topic Reusing Sailfish icons (10 min -- asked by poetaster)07:17
*** sailbot changes topic to "Reusing Sailfish icons (10 min -- asked by poetaster) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021)"07:17
rinigusSorry, no, nothing. As license spec does not prevent from distribution by jolla, we are ok07:17
sledges#info <poetaster> Apps often need very specific icons that are not readily available from the system (although the existing collection is pretty great). Most could easily be created by building on existing icons, though. For launcher icons, there is (was?) the “icon template” and “icon library” under CC-BY-3.007:17
sledges#info <poetaster> Can Jolla please consider releasing the other icons in a reusable fashion too (say, CC-BY-xx together with vector (SVG) sources for best reusability)? This would make beautifully integrated app development and design much easier.07:18
sledgesis poetaster around in any ethereal shape or form?:)07:18
sledgesah they're also representing ichtyosaurus, neither of them around:)07:19
sledgeshere's the answer07:19
sledges#info <Jolla> Publishing the icons is sensible request, but we need to look licensing of the asset holistically. Making any changes is something we carefully asses and therefore we cannot promise any quick progress.07:19
sledgesmoving swiftly on:)07:21
sledges#topic General discussion (15 min)07:22
*** sailbot changes topic to "General discussion (15 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021)"07:22
Nico[m]License questions, every time :D07:22
ExTechOpWhat are the things that have taken most of the developer's time recently?07:23
Nico[m]Btw, has Jolla ever looked at the Jolla store as a revenue source? For developers and Jolla?07:23
Nico[m]ExTechOp: Trying to become harbour compatible .-.07:23
ExTechOpNico[m] What are the issues there?07:24
Nico[m]Mostly that I am using APIs not allowed, like the bubble background and some media stuff, although I can get rid of the latter07:24
Nico[m]Also I wanted to use sailfish secrets, which probably also isn't allowed yet07:25
flypigDidn't the Jolla Store support one of the "tipping" services once, for users to give donations to devs?07:25
Nico[m]Yes, but I think that got removed07:26
Nico[m]I would love to have something like that bag though07:26
flypigNico[m], yes, it was removed and I'm sure there was a good reason for it, but I don't recall.07:26
jpetrellwe are working on allowing more APIs in the Store07:27
Nico[m]Didn't flattr just stop existing or so?07:27
jpetrellflattr terms changed if I recall07:27
Nico[m]Ah, yeah, could be07:27
rubdos[ma]<Nico[m] "Btw, has Jolla ever looked at th"> Maybe integrating with Liberapay? I find that relatively nice to use...07:27
pketothere was flattr link support in store, but flattr changed in a way that thad didn't really work anymore07:27
ExTechOpDoes anyone know of a "make the keyboard space bar wider" patch that has been updated to work with SFOS 4.0, I really make lots of typos with the fairly narrow spacebar we now have?07:27
Nico[m]Ruben De Smet, I was just about to say that!07:28
Nico[m]Thaodan, does sailfish secrets just use that same API?07:29
flypigLiberapay looks nice.07:30
sledgesin other developments:07:30
rubdos[ma]<flypig "Liberapay looks nice."> And the Sailfish community is very willing to give:
dcalistesledges, I would have definetely prefered a migration to My productivity will drop ! It's hard to follow what's going on in Github.07:32
flypigrubdos[ma], that doesn't surprise me, but it's good to know, and I'm glad you're being rewarded for your work.07:32
Nico[m]Bah, I still dislike GitHub vs self hosted gitlab, but sadly it is really hard to allow outsiders to contribute on self hosted gitlab ._.07:32
sledgesdcaliste: we already had quite many packages on gh/sailfishos+mer-hybris07:32
rubdos[ma]<Nico[m] "Bah, I still dislike GitHub vs s"> Federation for Gitlab would be really cool07:32
lbt_gitlab has also been a burden to maintain07:33
Nico[m]Ruben De Smet, I'll probably build git hosting on Matrix faster than Gitlab starts working on that issue :307:33
Nico[m]lbt_, yes, it can be :D07:33
dcalisteYes, sure sledges, but that's my point : I cannot follow easily what's going on with them because there is no "watch" for a group in Github, only for projects, and I won't click on watch on all of the hosted project of the group.07:34
ExTechOpHas anyone else had issues with he UI "missing" icon clicks? When trying to start applications (or open icon folders), mine seems to quite often lose the first attempt to click the icon.07:34
dcalisteI know easily what's going on in middleware from, and I can contribute.07:34
Nico[m]ExTechOp: Make sure your palm isn't on the screen07:34
lbt_dcaliste: that is true07:34
dcalisteIn Github, I've only contributed to the project I needed to for whatever reason, because there is no way to know what's going on there.07:35
ExTechOpNico[m] It's just Sailfish, not any other part of the OS. It's rather strange.07:35
dcalisteExcept for the watched projects...07:35
lbt_dcaliste: I wonder if there's a way to replicate that via the api07:35
jpetrellExTechOp: what device and OS version are you using?07:35
jpetrellso your issue is limited to App Grid panel where apps are launched?07:36
Nico[m]Oh, one issue I have been having recently, is that my networking stops working and then when I try to restart the phone, it just hangs there (Xperia X Compact). So I need to unplug the battery. Is there any way around that?07:36
jpetrellNico: turning flight mode on and off sometimes helps reset network without device reboot07:37
ExTechOpSFOS (Koli) on Sony Xperia XA2 Ultra07:37
jpetrelland sailfish utilities has connman restart button if I recall07:37
Nico[m]jpetrell: Well, I tried the "Restart Networking" from utilites and it just hung the settings page07:37
dcalistelbt: I tried in the past to search on the Internet what can be done with Github to replicate the activity from Gitlab, but I was not very successful...07:37
jpetrellNico[m]: ouch07:37
jpetrellNico[m]: if you haven't already report the issue on Sailfish Forum07:38
lbt_dcaliste: :/07:38
Nico[m]It feels like the networking firmware crashes...07:38
Nico[m]jpetrell: Will do, although I think there is a report I can attach myself to already. I saw someone mentioning that before07:39
lbt_There are, for sure, downsides to the move to github but life is full of non-trivial decisions07:39
Nico[m]Maybe my hardware is just dying .-.07:39
Nico[m]lbt_: You say that, but it would be trivial to update the Qt version and open-source every part of Sailfish!07:39
lbt_Nico[m]: I was going to do that this morning but I decided to have a nap instead :D :D07:40
sledgesdcaliste: lbt: here's an events' API:
Nico[m]So that is holding it up! I knew it! :D07:40
dcalistelbt, yes I guess so. Don't misunderstand me, I'm sure the pro and con have been weighted in the decision. I'm a bit sad that it weighted in that direction, and it will make contribution more difficult, for me.07:41
dcalistesledges, nice, I'll give a look.07:41
lbt_me too - I set up gitlab and contributed code for ldap support for Mer :)07:41
sledgeslast but not least, shoutout to flypig for posting another newsletter!07:44
Nico[m]I feel like that always happens while I'm in a meeting!07:44
ThaodanNo May the 4th edition :/07:44
sledgesNico[m]: you're not wrong there:)07:45
flypigThaodan, yea, missed May 4th I'm afraid.07:45
flypigPlease post your news under the newsletter so it can be included in the next one.07:45
sledgesand on this deathstar bombshell, it's time to end07:46
sledges#topic Next meeting time and date (5 min)07:46
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting time and date (5 min) (Meeting topic: Sailfish OS, open source, collaboration -- 6th May 2021)"07:46
dcalistelbt, yes, I remember the establishment of the gitlab instance in the middle of the difficult period of the tablet-gate... Anyway, the JSON pointed out by sledges looks promising, besides the fact that I need to write something to display it, or find a tool that does it already...07:46
sledgesProposing Thursday 20th May at 7am UTC07:46
ThaodanSeparate orgs help too07:46
flypig20th May looks good.07:47
jpetrellsounds good07:47
sledgesThaodan's remark just reminded me: good question what will happen to mer-core ownerships permissions system? a food for thought for next time, cc lbt dcaliste07:47
sledges#info Next meeting will be held on Thursday 20th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC:  2021-05-20T07Z07:47
sledgesthanks all!07:48
sailbotMeeting ended Thu May  6 07:48:06 2021 UTC.07:48
sailbot Minutes:
sailbot Minutes (text):
sailbot Log:
ExTechOpThank you, everyone!07:48
*** sailbot changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 6th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"07:48
Nico[m]Thank you!07:48
sledgesThaodan: flypig: today is "May revenge of the 6th be with you" so not all's lost07:52
*** ChanServ changes topic to "Next meeting will be held on Thursday 20th May 2021 at 7:00am UTC. Topics can be made/read here:"07:55
flypigsledges, haha :D That's great.07:56
ThaodanAll this talk about religion :D07:56
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